Great Hierophant Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I have an ST-225 which runs perfectly, but I had to low level format it first. Prior to the LLF, it would run as a drive if DOS was loaded from a floppy, but it would not boot without the floppy. You may find my blog post here useful : http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2016/05/working-with-st-506-interface-mfm-hard.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 getting closer, whats the status of your drives???? CGA_ALMOST_THERE.jpg Very cool! Oh man, that would be so awesome if you could get that to work. I'm depressed, but not despondent about the drives. I'm going to give it a go again. I'm going to revert the new KayPro back to exactly how it was, and see if I can't try to boot with a floppy (that I format on another computer) and see if I can access it. Biggest concern for me is getting the data off... I feel really bad that I likely destroyed the last remaining all original software from a KayPro 8088... if anyone cared. I'm going to hold off until Friday night. I'm going to ditch my family, and seclude myself in the office and just see what I can accomplish. I was fiddling with some ST-225 drives about ten years ago. Those which still worked, I could move around reasonably roughly without further damage, and I didn't pay attention to park heads. You may have been unlucky? I hope not, but I have a few things I'm going to check out... I might even re-do the g=c800:5 or whatever it was I used to do back in the day... it's been a LONG time. I have an ST-225 which runs perfectly, but I had to low level format it first. Prior to the LLF, it would run as a drive if DOS was loaded from a floppy, but it would not boot without the floppy. You may find my blog post here useful : http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2016/05/working-with-st-506-interface-mfm-hard.html Thanks man, I really appreciate that. I just browsed this briefly, and there is some AWESOME info in there. Thanks for writing this stuff up... it's because of people like you that people like me can keep stuff running (or... in my case, fix my screw-ups). I'm going to go through this on Friday after work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) ok seriously done playing with this now the victim the clobbered together circuit the schematic (btw if anyone actually tries this the 390R on the far left might be better off a a 1k potieotmeter so you can adjust intensity for the application you are running) the results Edited July 6, 2016 by Osgeld 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Very cool! Oh man, that would be so awesome if you could get that to work. I'm depressed, but not despondent about the drives. I'm going to give it a go again. I'm going to revert the new KayPro back to exactly how it was, and see if I can't try to boot with a floppy (that I format on another computer) and see if I can access it. Biggest concern for me is getting the data off... I feel really bad that I likely destroyed the last remaining all original software from a KayPro 8088... if anyone cared. I'm going to hold off until Friday night. I'm going to ditch my family, and seclude myself in the office and just see what I can accomplish. Are you sure that the computer you moved the drive into has EXACTLY the same controller card as the one the drive was originally formatted for? MFM cards from different manufacturers were not interchangeable (different interleaving, etc), and the BIOS might also make a difference. Don't write off those old drives until you try them again in the original machine. Assuming you get it working again, there are other ways of getting the data off of it. Do you still happen to have a LapLink cable handy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) ok seriously done playing with this now the victim IMG_20160706_173153258.jpg the clobbered together circuit IMG_20160706_173145791.jpg the schematic (btw if anyone actually tries this the 390R on the far left might be better off a a 1k potieotmeter so you can adjust intensity for the application you are running) New Doc 1_1.jpg the results TV2016070618162400.jpg TV2016070618170300.jpg Pretty sweet! The only suggestion I would add is the intensity signal for 16 shades of gray instead of eight. Edited July 7, 2016 by Great Hierophant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) ok seriously done playing with this now the victim IMG_20160706_173153258.jpg the clobbered together circuit IMG_20160706_173145791.jpg the schematic (btw if anyone actually tries this the 390R on the far left might be better off a a 1k potieotmeter so you can adjust intensity for the application you are running) New Doc 1_1.jpg the results TV2016070618162400.jpg TV2016070618170300.jpg Would it be bad if I said I hate you? Or that I'm at the very least extremely jealous? I'm normally just envious in cases like this, but in this case I'm jealous. I don't think it's fair that you can bust out stuff with a bread board and all those little diodes and whatevers, and I can't! hahah... The quality looks pretty amazing, I have to say... I think I'm going to try to do this, even though I don't know how. Are you sure that the computer you moved the drive into has EXACTLY the same controller card as the one the drive was originally formatted for? MFM cards from different manufacturers were not interchangeable (different interleaving, etc), and the BIOS might also make a difference. Don't write off those old drives until you try them again in the original machine. Assuming you get it working again, there are other ways of getting the data off of it. Do you still happen to have a LapLink cable handy? My thoughts exactly... when I get working on this on Friday, I'm going to put everything back exactly as it was... everything, and see what comes of it. I did get a boot sector error before I changed anything at all. All I did was move the computer from one side of the room to the other. But I'm going to put everything back how it was (which I thought I had done, but will do it again). When you say LapLink... do you mean a null-modem cable? That's a good idea... I could just transfer everything via ProComm Plus or Telix or Telemate or something like that. Edited July 7, 2016 by 82-T/A 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 When you say LapLink... do you mean a null-modem cable? That's a good idea... I could just transfer everything via ProComm Plus or Telix or Telemate or something like that. LapLink could use null modem cables, but it also had its own male-to-male parallel cable (a so-called "null printer cable") that could do 4-bit transfers, which was faster than serial. I used to use it a lot on old laptops that didn't have any interface to the outside world except a floppy drive and serial/parallel ports. If you don't happen to have LapLink and a parallel cable, you'd probably be better off using Procomm; the transfers will just take longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Would it be bad if I said I hate you? Or that I'm at the very least extremely jealous? I'm normally just envious in cases like this, but in this case I'm jealous. I'm a electronics engineer with 10 years fiddle farting with video formats, not that this is an impressive example as I said I want to be able to use my xt laptop with a decent screen so it helps both of us Btw if you are in the us and want me to toss one together I'll do so for the price of postage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I do think Florida counts as part of the US. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 depends how far south in Florida ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 I'm a electronics engineer with 10 years fiddle farting with video formats, not that this is an impressive example as I said I want to be able to use my xt laptop with a decent screen so it helps both of us Btw if you are in the us and want me to toss one together I'll do so for the price of postage Man, I don't know what to say. I can't take something like that for free... I'd feel bad. Can I buy one from you, or maybe trade for it? I am definitely interested though... that looks totally awesome! depends how far south in Florida ... Pretty far... I'm in Fort Lauderdale... hahah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) just pay postage, and dont worry it wont take long to solder this down to a board and slap it in a enclosure, but the only one I have on hand right now has a rather large rectangle cut out of the back... there's a schematic for an apple IIc video out to component adapter I was going to make but I ended up getting an Apple II card for my mac which does VGA output so now I have 2 machines in one and no need for it edit also your not costing me much of anything in parts I buy standard stuff in bulk where it cost pennies a pop, and where I work we also do board assembly, including some legacy though hole stuff, so all the parts the pick n place machines drop end up on my desk at work in a paper cup, which I take home and sort lol (got about 200$ worth of SMT 10uf caps one time cause the reel was broken and it was headed to the trash can, the argument was do you toss a 200$ reel or spend 300$ in man hours to put it on another reel and verify the part numbers and blah blah blah, just to have it go wrong and cost you 100,000$ in recalled product and a sort) Edited July 8, 2016 by Osgeld 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 just pay postage, and dont worry it wont take long to solder this down to a board and slap it in a enclosure, but the only one I have on hand right now has a rather large rectangle cut out of the back... there's a schematic for an apple IIc video out to component adapter I was going to make but I ended up getting an Apple II card for my mac which does VGA output so now I have 2 machines in one and no need for it edit also your not costing me much of anything in parts I buy standard stuff in bulk where it cost pennies a pop, and where I work we also do board assembly, including some legacy though hole stuff, so all the parts the pick n place machines drop end up on my desk at work in a paper cup, which I take home and sort lol (got about 200$ worth of SMT 10uf caps one time cause the reel was broken and it was headed to the trash can, the argument was do you toss a 200$ reel or spend 300$ in man hours to put it on another reel and verify the part numbers and blah blah blah, just to have it go wrong and cost you 100,000$ in recalled product and a sort) Man, I really appreciate that.. can't say this enough! Please let me know what you want me to do. I'm in the 33328 zip code. I can send you money through PayPal... Again, I really appreciate it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 Oh man! The old (new) hard drive is working again! I put everything back the way it was... (how it was when it was first not working) and it booted up with the original DOS 3.21a OS and the weird KayPro manager! Ok, not going to screw this up... I'm going to have to figure a way to copy it all off, while at the same time not really disturbing anything. I think if I copy Telix and PKZIP... I should be able to transmit by Null-Modem fairly easily without breaking stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Man, I really appreciate that.. can't say this enough! Please let me know what you want me to do. I'm in the 33328 zip code. I can send you money through PayPal... Again, I really appreciate it!!! let me finish it then I will pm you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted July 10, 2016 Author Share Posted July 10, 2016 let me finish it then I will pm you! Thank you, thank you! No problem, no rush! Please let me know what I can do for you (that's legal and allows me to keep my clothes on!) Thanks!!! haha... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 just keep in mind its not perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted July 10, 2016 Author Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) So, I discovered what the problem was all along... So, first problem is... the hard drive on the "new" KayPro definitely has a bunch of bad-sectors. I ran PKZIP from a floppy, and was able to zip up the entire hard drive into a single 1.1mb file (haha). All the original KayPro floppies and menu applications, with Word Star 1.2, and some other apps! I ordered a null modem cable that I can use to transfer everything off. Second problem I discovered is that my dual hard drive cable is actually totally jacked up. In the HD1 connector, a bunch of pins are messed up. I was able to boot from the single hard drive from my OLD KayPro. It was very nostalgic... I got on ProComm Plus and hit "Alt-D" instinctively... (haven't been on this hard drive in over 10 years) and all my old BBSes from the DC Metro Area were there... totally blew me away. The Science Line, George Mason University BBS, Nuclear Test Zone. Crazy. Anyway, when all I did was swap out the cable... it stopped booting... that cable is totally messed up. Not sure if the floppy connector and hard drive connector are the same, but I'm about to find out. EDIT: Answer is no... they are different. They fit... but they don't work. Edited July 10, 2016 by 82-T/A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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