+jedimatt42 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 I'm wondering if there would be anyway to add a pass though on this so other devices could be hooked up? It will have passthru headers on board. So others do not have to source edge connectors. -M@ Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3599786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 I hadn't thought about that... by kit form, you mean 'board plus components, assemble yourself?' Yes, like the FlashROM 99 is offered. Unless of course, it makes no difference in price. Then I'm happy to let you do all the work. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3599789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbrouse Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 It will have passthru headers on board. So others do not have to source edge connectors. -M@ So I will be able to hook up a external disk drive after the 32K? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3599797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 So I will be able to hook up a external disk drive after the 32K? You will not be able to hook up edge card based sidecar devices after the 32k, unless you build an adapter from IDC style header connector to edge card. You will be able to put the 32k at the end of any traditional TI sidecar devices. You will be able to design expansions that connect as daughterboards to the 32k board. So a storage solution could be added if one is designed. -M@ 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3599806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricLab Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 getting mounting holes just right is a perennial problem on board designs. . .it is one of the hardest parts of the layout! They're called, at least when I still worked at a PCB shop, tooling holes, and are also used for registration for electrical test to align the finished board on a fixture. When you get more complex in your designs with tighter pitch SMT and multiple layers, you really need them. Often they're left unplated which allows for tighter tolerances since plating and solder makes the finished size a little less predictable. 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3599848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbrouse Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 You will not be able to hook up edge card based sidecar devices after the 32k, unless you build an adapter from IDC style header connector to edge card. You will be able to put the 32k at the end of any traditional TI sidecar devices. You will be able to design expansions that connect as daughterboards to the 32k board. So a storage solution could be added if one is designed. -M@ Maybe when you get the boards into production and I talk to you about cost to add one for me. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 Yeah, I know how I would design the edge card adapter to the right, I just don't see a market. I don't understand what use case requires it. I would be happy to have that discussion. My primary design focus has been around keeping cost down for the main use case. cartridge users. -M@ 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 My primary design focus has been around keeping cost down for the main use case. cartridge users. This project is exciting on so many different levels to me. I like your approach for keeping it simple and the cost low as possible. Why? 1) I believe there is a larger demographic than we know that would love to get back into the TI, but does not want to drop a fortune. 2) There are gamer's that collect multiple platforms. This device will give them a quick and simple way to access 95% of all games inexpensively. This 32K device, paired with the FlashROM 99, will let nearly anyone access "GOBS" of programs on R.I. Just download and put on the SD card. I also believe the JediMatt 32K paired with the FR99 on a stand alone console may act as a 'gateway drug' to bring more people into the hobby further. Once they cut their teeth on the FlashROM, some of them might want to continue upgrading... after all, "In for a penny in for a pound". In the end, I think this will bring more people into the TI community here on A.A. and who knows where that will lead? 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinphaltimus Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Count me in for at least 1. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowland Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 This project is exciting on so many different levels to me. ..... 1) I believe there is a larger demographic than we know that would love to get back into the TI, but does not want to drop a fortune. ..... I also believe the JediMatt 32K paired with the FR99 on a stand alone console may act as a 'gateway drug' to bring more people into the hobby further. Once they cut their teeth on the FlashROM, some of them might want to continue upgrading... after all, "In for a penny in for a pound". In the end, I think this will bring more people into the TI community here on A.A. and who knows where that will lead? People like me! After nearly 30 years since I gave away my first TI-99/4a, I found another at a yard sale. I've since ordered a FlashROM99 and an F18a vga card. So, to keep on topic, I await with unbridled impatience for this 32k sidecart to be a reality! But, I guess, after 30 years a few more weeks or months is bearable. 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 I received the components for the sample last night... This morning I assembled a board. I tried the 74HC245 bus transciever, but that failed memory tests. It did however play parsec better than my earlier breadboard prototype.. although parsec would still crash before the 'bzzz-bzzz-bzzzst' baddies. I was bummed... Any of a million things could be wrong. But, since it sort-of worked, I focused on the data bus. I swapped out the HC chip for a nice old fashioned LS, and gave it a test... Rock solid! Then I decided to compare datasheets and build an understanding as to why that might be ( you might think that my behavior is backwards... it is. ) The HC chip is lower power, but also that comes with lower output power. Given that it needs to signal back into the console through edge card connectors, I'll take that as explanation enough. Here are some photos of the assembled unit, connected to a TI, some different angles of it disconnected. https://goo.gl/photos/a9c1BtSKucaPukhQ6 To solve the problem of extending the edge card connector far enough to the left, so that a plastic case could one day be there, I found a supply of single-pin machined sockets ( a 1 pin socket ) and just needed 44 per board --- so that was $1.20 a board, instead of edge card connectors with long leads... It is only 44 more solder points per board... And with 44 of them, it is strong. The board is using 63ma. It just doesn't work off the side-port's +5v with the 50ma limit... I'll leave the selector/jumper, but it will require modding the TI to allow more current out the sideport. It looks like most of that current is the 62256 memory chip. Or maybe a source of much lower power 32k sram chips... Anyway, enjoy the pictures. -M@ 5 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricLab Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 I received the components for the sample last night... This morning I assembled a board. I tried the 74HC245 bus transciever, but that failed memory tests. It did however play parsec better than my earlier breadboard prototype.. although parsec would still crash before the 'bzzz-bzzz-bzzzst' baddies. I was bummed... Any of a million things could be wrong. But, since it sort-of worked, I focused on the data bus. I swapped out the HC chip for a nice old fashioned LS, and gave it a test... Rock solid! Then I decided to compare datasheets and build an understanding as to why that might be ( you might think that my behavior is backwards... it is. ) The HC chip is lower power, but also that comes with lower output power. Given that it needs to signal back into the console through edge card connectors, I'll take that as explanation enough. Here are some photos of the assembled unit, connected to a TI, some different angles of it disconnected. https://goo.gl/photos/a9c1BtSKucaPukhQ6 To solve the problem of extending the edge card connector far enough to the left, so that a plastic case could one day be there, I found a supply of single-pin machined sockets ( a 1 pin socket ) and just needed 44 per board --- so that was $1.20 a board, instead of edge card connectors with long leads... It is only 44 more solder points per board... And with 44 of them, it is strong. The board is using 63ma. It just doesn't work off the side-port's +5v with the 50ma limit... I'll leave the selector/jumper, but it will require modding the TI to allow more current out the sideport. It looks like most of that current is the 62256 memory chip. Or maybe a source of much lower power 32k sram chips... Anyway, enjoy the pictures. -M@ Awesome. I can't see the pictures though. Perhaps you're still uploading them. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Excellent news! I like the trick with the pogo pins. . . It looks like the pictures are set to private as opposed to public, as I can't see them either (and I have no Google account, so I can't log in to test either). Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Awesome. I can't see the pictures though. Perhaps you're still uploading them. They seem to come and go. Try reloading the page (F5) a few times. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 People like me! After nearly 30 years since I gave away my first TI-99/4a, I found another at a yard sale. I've since ordered a FlashROM99 and an F18a vga card. So, to keep on topic, I await with unbridled impatience for this 32k sidecart to be a reality! But, I guess, after 30 years a few more weeks or months is bearable. Welcome back to the TI universe! You'll find this place addicting. There are so many TI gurus, hardware hacker and software guys hanging out here it'll make your head spin. The stuff they come up with will continually blow your mind. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 Damn you Google! I jest. I'll upload lower res pics directly to Atariage after a short grocery run. -M@ 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 As promised, here are the pics in the album.. ( which is shared, open to anyone with the link: https://goo.gl/photos/a9c1BtSKucaPukhQ6) The album has higher res, if you want to zoom in on any details... And, if it brings more players to the high-score thread, and/or more cross-compiling-cart-game-builders, that will be awesome for everyone. -M@ 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Still can't see the Google pix for some reason, probably because I am not logged in to their system. . . I got the data I needed from the low-res pix though, so all is good. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 jedimatt42, on 24 Sept 2016 - 9:25 PM, said: I tried the 74HC245 bus transciever, but that failed memory tests. Try a 74HCT245 (HC*T*). The logic levels for the HC range aren't directly compatible with the 74LS/TTL chips used everywhere else, but the HCT range is. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted September 25, 2016 Author Share Posted September 25, 2016 Try a 74HCT245 (HC*T*). The logic levels for the HC range aren't directly compatible with the 74LS/TTL chips used everywhere else, but the HCT range is. Thanks! I must have mis-read something in the past... I'll give those a shot. -M@ Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3600925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbrouse Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Yeah, I know how I would design the edge card adapter to the right, I just don't see a market. I don't understand what use case requires it. I would be happy to have that discussion. My primary design focus has been around keeping cost down for the main use case. cartridge users. -M@ I have a stand alone disk drive that I would like to connect to it. My stnd alone 32K dies some time ago. I don't see it being a massive run, but if this is something you would make me one or two I would love to get them from you. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3601222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted September 25, 2016 Author Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) I've taken Karsul's feedback on the holes.. I hadn't actually performed any physical analysis prior to this... and revised the board layout.. The holes in the corner are intended to aid mounting in something... So I have extended the edges of the board, increased the size of those holes, and now they are placed where they should clear all of the edge connectors, power jacks, chip sockets, etc... I'll have the demo units I'm building this weekend at PRGE, but I cannot promise having the final boards ready by then. Turn around time is 2-4 week to get the boards printed. If I get them in 3 weeks, I'll have time to build some distribution units. Here is a preview of the ammended layout: I'll be staring at it for a while, and then submit the order today. -M@ Edited September 26, 2016 by jedimatt42 6 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3601224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 I have a stand alone disk drive that I would like to connect to it. My stnd alone 32K dies some time ago. I don't see it being a massive run, but if this is something you would make me one or two I would love to get them from you. What brand of disk controller was that? -M@ Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3602097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 There are two stand alone disk controllers: the sidecar PHP 1800 from TI and the TX99 from Percom Data. Both of them are single-density, and I believe only the Percom will do double sided. . .though to tell the truth, I've never tried to use a double sided drive with my TI sidecar. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3602102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 Ah, the percom didn't have a standard expansion to the right. Some googling makes it sound like it only has a second port for another percom disk drive. Something like this: With some of these (cut to fit): should do the job. Not 100% sure about the reach of the right angle female header... -M@ Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/254502-32k-expansion-for-the-side-port-released/page/6/#findComment-3602124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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