doctorclu Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Congrats on the 1000th message in this thread BTW, and thanks for confirming. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaki Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Just for the heck of it, I tried it out on my TV (CRT), and it's really not that bad. The picture's got a bit of color fringing (not sure that's the correct term), and it goes a little too far into the overscan, but otherwise it's decent. The scanline refresh has this diagonal thing going on, but it's like that on the built-in LCD also, and it's not that noticeable in most games. BTW, here's a helpful diagram for anyone interested: So with a typical stereo audio cable, video would be right/red and audio would be left/white. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitari Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Is the unit compatible with the yellow/white/red av lead? I've just tried with yellow/black(audio) and the picture is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitari Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Also, has anyone yet tried to source the correct rated UK usb power adapter that the supplied lead can plug into that'll fit in the spare space to the left in the box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaki Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I've just tried with yellow/black(audio) and the picture is terrible. Could be a PAL vs. NTSC thing, I'm in the USA. Or if you're using an LCD TV...I hesitate to say this, but I can imagine that looking pretty bad...but let's not bring that topic back up again =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Could be a PAL vs. NTSC thing, I'm in the USA. Or if you're using an LCD TV...I hesitate to say this, but I can imagine that looking pretty bad...but let's not bring that topic back up again =) I don't understand why consoles look so bad on LCD. The composite leads from cable box or older DVD players still look crisp and clean on any LCD TV, yet most retro consoles have noise and artifacting that don't show up on tube sets. Might be 240p versus 480i and the fact most consoles output slightly off-spec timings that vary per console. If every frame returned to the TV is even field instead of even/odd, it should just double each scanline instead of perform deinterlace. That would make a system like NES look more like the Wii VC and less like a janky mess, and proper sprite flicker istead of venetian blinds. Everything before 6th generation has some sort of artifacting, though it varies per system. My older mid 2000s era LCD at least displays Atari picture correctly. Some integrated conponent/composite new gen ADC chipsets won't display some consoles at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitari Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Could be a PAL vs. NTSC thing, I'm in the USA. Or if you're using an LCD TV...I hesitate to say this, but I can imagine that looking pretty bad...but let's not bring that topic back up again =) My TV picks up PAL and NTSC; it's an LCD. I have a range of retro consoles and the picture quality is fine on those. We have here just one video signal, well, one lead and presumably a positive and a negative. Can anyone confirm whether the FBP caters for stereo out to TV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Can anyone confirm whether the FBP caters for stereo out to TV? Dude. It's an ATARI VCS. One audio channel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Update to Star Raiders for the 2600 by Nukey Shay that allow you to see the status bar on the bottom now... http://atariage.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=484640 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrBlackCat Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) <snip> BTW, here's a helpful diagram for anyone interested: pinout.gif So with a typical stereo audio cable, video would be right/red and audio would be left/white. Thanks for the PinOut... was this by chance an above average quality shielded/coax type audio cable you tested with? Is the unit compatible with the yellow/white/red av lead? I've just tried with yellow/black(audio) and the picture is terrible. I tried this with a couple of Stereo cables, which I verified to match my original cable electrically, but there seems to be more to it than that. As you say, it looked terrible... unplayable when I used a Stereo cable... must be a signal/interference issue. The video might be micro coax as in typical video cable. The two stereo cables I had are not usable for an A/V Cable though. My TV picks up PAL and NTSC; it's an LCD. I have a range of retro consoles and the picture quality is fine on those. We have here just one video signal, well, one lead and presumably a positive and a negative. Can anyone confirm whether the FBP caters for stereo out to TV? Even if the cable/unit had two Audio Out plugs via a splitter, but there isn't stereo on an Atari 2600 as the signal generated is mono. MrBlackCat Edited January 5, 2017 by MrBlackCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Atari 2600 consoles can be modded for stereo, because the board has discrete circuits for each of the two audio channels. Once upon a time the 2600 was even planned to be a stereo console, and a small handful of the earliest games, including Combat, were programmed with this in mind. So it's not too terribly outrageous to ask if a 2600 emulator or modern-day remake supports stereo. I think I'd be surprised if any of the Flashbacks did support stereo, but not jaw-droppingly so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) Time for another compilation of Doctor Clu's favorites for the Atari Flashback Portable. Honestly not much has changed, about the same list, cleaned it up a little better this time so shouldn't be any trash files the Mac seems to pile on. But what did change is pretty big... 1) Fix it Felix - Cybearg has not only hacked this game to work with the AFP, but has made a version with more visibility of the characters, action, and detail than ever before. 2) Star Raiders - Nukey Shay had to do so much to get this to work. The keypad controls were changed to the difficulty switches and mono/color switch. The Dpad was not working but is now. And the display was scrolled down where the status display at the bottom could not be seen. All that is fixed and ready to play. 3) Defend your Castle - Might be one player but just fun target practice! 4) Star Castle - An old favorite arcade game of mine (used to have the arcade game growing up and played it for hours) which I am glad works on the AFP. A lot of Christmas games like Bad Elf, Naughty List, and Donkey Kong Christmas and in truth, they are just fun games. I tried finding a arcade version of Donkey Kong that worked on the AFP. I've added a file called "Donkey Kong third level" that shows a non-working work in progress of the elevator level. Hope that is finished one day. Also have Spy Hunter in there. Not completely working since you can't do the second joystick, but a fun game. Root Beer Tapper and the demo "Doctor" suffer from the screen down migration bug of the AFP. I like them anyway. And Q-Bert arcade only has one playable level I believe, which is fine since I like Q-bert but not enough to play more than one level anyway. I love the attempts to make more arcade looking ports (Dig Dug arcade, Hack-Man, Pac-Man 8K, etc) so if you know of others, please let me know and I'll try them out. Enjoy Fix it Felix, Star Raiders, and the rest of this collection. Doctor Clu's Favs Rev 2.zip Edited January 6, 2017 by doctorclu 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaki Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Thanks for the PinOut... was this by chance an above average quality shielded/coax type audio cable you tested with? I doubt it. It -was- yellow/white, so it might've come from a camera or something, specifically for video/audio, but it doesn't look to have any shielding or anything. I can try a regular, cheap red/white adapter, but I doubt there'll be any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne2072 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) [content deleted by Wayne2072] Edited January 6, 2017 by Wayne2072 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Atari Flashback Portable specific version of Root Beer Tapper. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/259166-flashback-portable-needed-controller-hacks/page-3?do=findComment&comment=3666138 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 New versions of Tapper and Bud Tapper with screen completely adjusted here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/259166-flashback-portable-needed-controller-hacks/page-3?do=findComment&comment=3666320 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrBlackCat Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I doubt it. It -was- yellow/white, so it might've come from a camera or something, specifically for video/audio, but it doesn't look to have any shielding or anything. I can try a regular, cheap red/white adapter, but I doubt there'll be any difference. I just read a bit on the subject... seems cable intended for composite (and most video) is 75ohm cable. This will work fine for Audio or Video, but not the other way around. This matches my experience. If it is yellow, it was most likely intended for Video, and is 75ohm cable. Now I am curious... I have a number of dedicated video cables in many types. I will connect the video side of my correct cable through these and record the results. MrBlackCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I just read a bit on the subject... seems cable intended for composite (and most video) is 75ohm cable. This will work fine for Audio or Video, but not the other way around. This matches my experience. If it is yellow, it was most likely intended for Video, and is 75ohm cable. Now I am curious... I have a number of dedicated video cables in many types. I will connect the video side of my correct cable through these and record the results. MrBlackCat Any cable should do if it has proper shielding. Perhaps use a stereo 1/8" to RCA and connect shielded cables to it. Most AV cables I have seen are identical construction to the audio and video leads. Avoid the Walmart crap. Radioshark and Bestbuy although they tend to run a bit expensive. I've started using Radioshack brand component cables with composite applications because for some reason they were higher fidelity and cheaper than the typical A/V. Green = yellow, Red = red, Blue = white. Just be sure to hook it up to the red/white/yellow inputs on your TV, not the red/green/blue ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) We have new games working at this link mostly thanks to Nukey Shay... http://atariage.com/forums/topic/259166-flashback-portable-needed-controller-hacks/page-4?do=findComment&comment=3666491 Acid Drop 12KB ----- NTSC conversion version by Thomas Jentzsch did test out working though the title screen is positioned downward. Action screen on that is alright. Custer(portable).bin 4KB ---Works Enduro(portable).bin 4KB ----Works, screen position looks good. Jawbreaker(portable).bin 4KB ---Works (fun game) Lochjaw(portable).bin 4KB ----- Works, screen position looks good. Marauder(portable).bin 4KB ---- Works. (Top down Berzerk?) Sharkattack(portable).bin 4KB ---- Works. Squeezebox(portable).bin 4KB ----- Works. (Interesting game). Wordsattack(portable).bin 4KB ---- dpad Works. Edited January 7, 2017 by doctorclu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrBlackCat Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Any cable should do if it has proper shielding. Perhaps use a stereo 1/8" to RCA and connect shielded cables to it. Most AV cables I have seen are identical construction to the audio and video leads. Avoid the Walmart crap. Radioshark and Bestbuy although they tend to run a bit expensive. I've started using Radioshack brand component cables with composite applications because for some reason they were higher fidelity and cheaper than the typical A/V. Green = yellow, Red = red, Blue = white. Just be sure to hook it up to the red/white/yellow inputs on your TV, not the red/green/blue ones. Ok... I ran the tests. You used a cable with a yellow end, which is video, not audio, so that test doesn't support the idea of using audio cables for video. I have boxes of cables from 8mm diameter oxygen free shielded coax, to dollar tree stuff, and tried more than a dozen types. The way I tested this was simple... I used the original AtGames cable, which works fine of course. Then I unplugged the Video side/yellow and added each dedicated audio cable to pass the video signal through the audio cable. Also, I found two other 1/8 to RCA cable sets without a yellow, as they were intended for audio only. Both were wired identical to the AtGames set, and neither worked in the sense the video was extremely distorted/ghosted. Result, you might have an audio cable that was made using 75ohm wire, and it would work. There is no way to verify this without testing for signal with a dedicated testing device or oscilloscope, or by trying it. Most dedicated Audio cables will not pass a signal correctly. Simple. This is a case of how a given cable handles a signal, not just electricity. For this reason I am not going to suggest using dedicated audio cables unless you have one you can try. Basically, any correctly polarized 1/8 to RCA Audio/Video cable will work. And any correctly polarized 1/8 to RCA Audio only cable (white/white,red/white etc) may or may not work. If you have it to test, try it, but there is no guarantee an audio cable will work, as they can be different. MrBlackCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Enduro(portable).bin 4KB ----Works, screen position looks good. Jawbreaker(portable).bin 4KB ---Works (fun game) Two personal faves of mine... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Ok, is there any reason you guys won't just buy official cables from the official store? Then you wouldn't have to buy non working cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 We have new games working at this link mostly thanks to Nukey Shay... http://atariage.com/forums/topic/259166-flashback-portable-needed-controller-hacks/page-4?do=findComment&comment=3666491 Acid Drop 12KB ----- NTSC conversion version by Thomas Jentzsch did test out working though the title screen is positioned downward. Action screen on that is alright. Custer(portable).bin 4KB ---Works Enduro(portable).bin 4KB ----Works, screen position looks good. Jawbreaker(portable).bin 4KB ---Works (fun game) Lochjaw(portable).bin 4KB ----- Works, screen position looks good. Marauder(portable).bin 4KB ---- Works. (Top down Berzerk?) Sharkattack(portable).bin 4KB ---- Works. Squeezebox(portable).bin 4KB ----- Works. (Interesting game). Wordsattack(portable).bin 4KB ---- dpad Works. With all due respect to Nukey Shay, he is a brillant hacker, but I feel his skills would be better suited to conversions aimed at real hardware. I've never understood the appeal of hacking clean ROMs to work in buggy emulators. If AtGames releases a Flashback Portable 2 with an improved but still inaccurate emulator, then all of the effort to hack these titles will be lost if these "fixed" ROMs fail to work correctly on new revisions of the buggy emulator. Sorry but at this point, I feel the AFP is a flawed device, and fixing existing games to work with it does not benefit the future of emulation in any meaningful way. I would rather see efforts to improve the emulation, rather than "improving" known good ROMs that play flawlessly on original hardware and modern accurate emulators. This is AtGames problem to fix their mess, not ours. My two cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Ok, is there any reason you guys won't just buy official cables from the official store? Then you wouldn't have to buy non working cables.Probably the official cables are no better than the cheap $5 crap you buy at Walmart. Like if you are carrying RF VHF over an RCA jack, most RCA plugs including composite are no good, you need to use a "digital" cable rated for high speed communication, or plug an F-connector adapter on the console side and use TV coax like what the cable company uses, rather than improperly shielded or impedance matched RCA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) With all due respect to Nukey Shay, he is a brillant hacker, but I feel his skills would be better suited to conversions aimed at real hardware. I've never understood the appeal of hacking clean ROMs to work in buggy emulators. I would rather see efforts to improve the emulation, rather than "improving" known good ROMs that play flawlessly on original hardware and modern accurate emulators. This is AtGames problem to fix their mess, not ours. My two cents... All true. He is a brilliant hacker. The AFP has flawed emulation. As for how Nukey's time could best be used? That is up to Nukey. Way I take it he just wants to make some people happy, so he hacked Star Raiders and once he found a working solution for the screen migration he went banana's and made some other popular games (Jawbreaker, Marauder, Enduro, Root Beer Tapper) work to make more people happy. All this to say we greatly appreciate the time he volunteered to do what he has done. Edited January 8, 2017 by doctorclu 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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