AtariLeaf Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 I'll have to hunt down another crt as I don't own another, just flat screens and it's hard to judge on those as they give me an odd picture anyway. I'd just like to know if that I'm experiencing is actually interference or something else with the atari systems in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Can anyone provide insight into what these faint bluish jailbar-like lines are? I'm curious if this is interference or something else more insideous. It's weird how it seems to be just sixers affected so far Edited August 23, 2016 by AtariLeaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 It was recommended to me to try deoxit on the cart slot. I just gotta get some but hopefully that does the trick. I should probably have some on hand anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Have you tried different wall plugs in your home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 No but I will now. My systems all run through a surge supressor and I've tried two different power supplies but I'll see if I have a third to try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Are there other things plugged into the surge suppressor? I would try pulling the atari & the tv directly into the wall, and try a couple different wall sockets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 K I will and yes other things are plugged in the supressor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 Tried another power supply and different wall sockets, no change. Are these lines anything to worry about or just an annoyance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Tried another power supply and different wall sockets, no change. Are these lines anything to worry about or just an annoyance? I'm gonna go with annoyance. No way cleaning the cartridge slot with DeOxit is gonna clear up any video artifacts like that. It's an electronic issue for sure. As in, video output. If faint lines were moving or swaying in a pattern of sorts, then you could blame it on RF interference. When you see such a consistent level of "distortion" or pattern on a game system or computer that doesn't waiver, usually your video chip is the culprit. I remember seeing that a LOT in Apple ][+, ][e and ][c products and later (as in C64c) computers of the mid to late 80's. NES when it was redesigned as the top loader in the 90's exhibited the exact_same_characteristic. It's a video chip thing… NOT a capacitor or some other component that has fallen out of spec. I'll eat my hat if anyone proves otherwise… Reduce the brightness on your TV if you really want to minimize those bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 Does that mean I have video chips failing en masse on my sixers you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 How many systems we talking about and are they all from the same era? Light sixes or newer I'm guessing? And were they all fine up until just recently? Or have they always exhibited those lines? Guessing they did and maybe just now you're noticing a difference because you changed a TV out... or? I have only one 2600 system that exhibits these lines and it's a very late model 4-switch Vader. Not the first time I've seen it. Seems more common with late® model 2600's though. The VIC chip is funny in the C64's and Vic20 too after extended use and/or if they're not properly cooled/sinked, can develop those same exact lines. If they weren't born with them that is. *Have* seen it gradually happen to systems over time, so that's why I believe it's a video chip issue. Swap the chip out with an older revision and voila! Lines gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) light and heavy sixers, two of each so four sixers tested. So far the only one that hasn't shown the lines is a junior, which I found odd since I would have thought the opposite. also its not the rf cable as I switched out the video cable from a sixer with the one from the good junior. I haven't tested any vaders or 4 switch wood grain models yet. To answer your question, its possible I never noticed the lines. I had the brightness turned up when using a different computer on that monitor Edited August 26, 2016 by AtariLeaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Yeah, only shows more with the brightness up on certain games. Some TV's will pronounce this more than others of course. One of the reasons I've never been a big fan of A/V modding these old systems. Sometimes/often exaggerate the flaws. For instance, Jungle Hunt looks like ass with a "jail barred" system, whereas Ms. Pac-Man hardly shows the flaw. Just depends on the game, TV, brightness, etc. NOT the RF cable, cartridge port, power supply or anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 So in your opinion my systems aren't dying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 So in your opinion my systems aren't dying? Nah - not at all. Well a very, very slow death of course. Like the rest of us and everything else. lol But guessing they've probably always been like that or been like that for a very long time and you're now just noticing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 Nah - not at all. Well a very, very slow death of course. Like the rest of us and everything else. lol But guessing they've probably always been like that or been like that for a very long time and you're now just noticing. Ok thanks very much for your input. I'm just wracking my brain trying to figure out why I seem to have this very unique system on so many atari's. I'm assuming ferrite beads won't help either. I'm going to have to go back through some old raw video of game footage I'd captured for my youtube channel over the years. I can't recall seeing those lines in the captured footage but I could just never have noticed or it doesn't manifest because of the compression used when transferred to pc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 A bit of an update - I tried some different games, mostly with black background and most games have the faint vertical lines but some have very little to almost none. Bumper Bash I was surprised to find had almost no lines at all and a sears arcade pinball had it very faintly as well. I also plugged my APF TV Fun into the same setup and there were zero lines. There's almost no rhyme or reason to these lines. I've yet to try a different crt tv but I probably can't do that this weekend. It's at the back of my shed and there's just too much stuff to move to get to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted September 3, 2016 Author Share Posted September 3, 2016 (edited) Another update if anyone is watching. I dug out my old CRT tv from the shed and tried asteroids first, played with the brightness all the way up and down, and no lines so I thought "great, its the monitor and/or vcr" then I tried missile command and the lines are noticeable. Both have black screens so I'm still at a loss as to why I have so many systems with these lines when almost nobody has any 2600's with this problem. Seems to be most noticeable on screens with greyish colors Edited September 3, 2016 by AtariLeaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange808 Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) RF Tuner (or modded console) -> XRGB 1,2, or 3 line doubler -> Dvdo vp30, vp50, vp50pro -> television It you're serious about getting rid of overscan artifacts and jailbars, this is the only answer I've found. Edited September 9, 2016 by orange808 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 Bit of a confusing update: So I was playing the 7800 today. I mentioned previously that my 7800 and its games didn't produce this faint jailbar effect and it still doesn't. But today I decided to pop in 2600 Asteroids on my 7800 and low and behold, those faint lines appear on my 7800 with 2600 asteroids. No 7800 games do this on the same system. Is it the game? If it is it's present on all copies of 2600 Asteroids that I own. Really confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rednakes1 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 I've noticed the same problem on a Rev. 13 four-switcher with composite mod, as well as a Rev. 14 four-switcher non-modded. Hmmm.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rednakes1 Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Ok, here's something I tried today on my Rev. 13 four-switch woody 2600: 1) Replaced TIA (bottom chip) with the one from the Rev. 14 Atari: Colours became more saturated 2) Then I replaced the RIOT (the top chip) with the one from the Rev. 14 Atari: Jailbar effect became slightly more pronounced (!) So, I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but perhaps there is an issue with the RIOT deteriorating over time and overuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Could the colors being more saturated and the jailbar effect being more pronounced be from replacing chips from an RF unit to composite modded unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rednakes1 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 No, the chips do not get touched when you modify from RF to composite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Agreed, you mentioned replacing the chips from the rf only unit and putting them in the composite modded unit. I'm just wondering if the effect is more pronounced on a composite modded system compared to standard RF, hence you're noticing it more when you take a chip from an rf unit and put it in a composite unit. As was mentioned in post 38 above, sometimes av modding makes these flaws more apparent. The picture I posted on the first page of a composite modded system with donkey kong running shows the bars as much more pronounced than I have on any of my systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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