Intellivision Celery

[carlsson]

I don't know about you, but to me design of any potential boxes, cartridge labels etc is something for the distant future when I develop a game. I even know my graphical skills suck so in the unlikely case it would be ready for a release in physical form, I would recruit qualified help with those bits.

[freewheel]

I don't know about you, but to me design of any potential boxes, cartridge labels etc is something for the distant future when I develop a game. I even know my graphical skills suck so in the unlikely case it would be ready for a release in physical form, I would recruit qualified help with those bits.

 

Bingo. I couldn't design a label/box to save my life. That's for far down the road, and much better artists than I.

[DZ-Jay]

I wasn't trying to go for retro or amateur, I was just trying to draw a picture of a celery with the words "celery's challenge" over it. I guess I suck at drawing.

 

I didn't mean any offense, sorry. I just meant to say that if you were going to design artwork, it should either be fully pixel-art, or regular line-art, otherwise it doesn't work well.

 

Anyway, I took a few minutes to play the last version of your game and here are my thoughts:

• It reminds me a lot of GoSub (I wonder why...)
• I really, really, really like the title screen music, the hook is very catchy and burrowed into my head directly. Right now it just repeats the same patterns over and over, but if you gave it a bit of variation it would be a great tune. Oh, and it fits the whimsical style of the game.
• Blinking eyes on the title screen is a great idea. Maybe you want to add some variations, like looking side-to-side, squinting (half-blinking), etc. These should be easy to do and they will give more personality to Mr. Celery Bob (or whatever name you decided to go with).
• Consider screen transitions. This is one of those "spit-n-polish" features that many programmers take for granted, but which add a perceivable level of polish to any game. Don't just clear the screen and draw a new one, and don't just switch from one song to the next mid-note; this can be a bit jarring. One easy but effective transition I use all the time is just to turn the screen blank and silent for about 250ms to 400ms before redrawing the next one. Empirically, I've learned that ~250ms is the minimum length that changes perception from glitch to transition. Incidentally, many arcade games from the golden age do this, especially when playing music, before it became practical to do special effects like fades or dissolves. (Really, pay attention to Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, or any other game from that time -- the "blank" time between screen transitions is not instantaneous, and it is not constrained by technical limitations; it is by design.) By the way, 250ms is about 15 frames.
• If I keep the controller pressed, Mr. Celery should continue moving until I release the controller.
• Perhaps the sound of picking up a pea should be a bit more musical, rather than just a BEEP.
• Mr. Celery's death sounds brutal! I like it. However, I suggest that you add a bit of delay between dying and redrawing the screen. Right now it seems too fast and may cause confusion. For instance, I perceived the death "crash" sound after the screen flickered and Mr. Celery had started at the top of the level, which made me think, "what the heck just happened?"
• I recommend making the end-of-level swirls more noticeable, perhaps by giving them a different colour. (Animating once they open would be really cool too!)
• The in-level music is much too loud. You should be able to control the music volume in IntyBASIC (and if you can't let's talk to nanochess to allow it. )
• Some colour schemes are harder to see than others. I suggest being careful at picking consecutive colour schemes. For instance, don't go from a high-contrast scheme to a low-contrast one directly; it may be too jarring and confusing to the player until they adjust their eyes (especially old farts like us!).
• Movements seem fine, but I would personally like the tile-to-tile movements to be a bit more smooth. Of course, you still move from square-to-square, but in between the sprite should slide. Take a look at Match 5 and Minehunter for an examples of this, Frogger too. It's a quick yet perceivable transition from one block to the next.
• Perhaps it should be like Frogger, in which the bad guys change behaviour as you advance through the levels. I made it to level #5 or #6 and the "Vegetarians" were still doing their same predictable routines, just a wee-bit faster.

Overall, I like the idea, it seems to be a catchy and fun game. However, in all honesty, it feels a tad lame. There is something missing from the challenge, perhaps the puzzles are too easy or the game-play much too simple, I don't know. Most of the time I die not because I "failed" but because I made a mistake in pressing the controller to the wrong way, or because I was getting bored so I started moving faster and carelessly. This gets frustrating, especially when in the back of my head I know that my reward for finishing the level will be another just like it.

 

I hope this feedback is useful. I recall when you first started with GoSub and many of my comments were similar to the above, and then it turned into a very fun gem. I do have hopes for Celery's Challenge (although I still like "Attack of the 50 ft Celery Stalk" better), it's got a great potential.

 

Cheers!

-dZ.

Edited August 27, 2016 by DZ-Jay

[+atari2600land]

Thanks for the suggestions. I am working on implementing them. Here's what I have so far:

- lowered the music/sfx volume.

- added transition/death screen.

- changed pea getting sound.

I do have a question though: Is there an easy way to make it so it can read the bits of a variable and then tell it to do stuff? Like for example, "if sfxtimer=divisible by 3, then do such and such."

 

celery20160827.zip

[freewheel]

I do have a question though: Is there an easy way to make it so it can read the bits of a variable and then tell it to do stuff? Like for example, "if sfxtimer=divisible by 3, then do such and such."

 

 

It's all about math tricks

 

In your example, try this: if sfxtimer%3=0 then do such and such. This will be true whenever sfxtimer is 0,3,6,9,12....

 

Remainder operations are very powerful, but they can chew up a lot of cycles. So use them sparingly. IntyBASIC optimizes them for small powers of 2. Depends on how tight your program is. I usually don't notice it, and I find it's a handy trick to say "do this every 4 loops" or what have you. It's also a cheap way to do movement/sound controls that aren't totally linear.

[+atari2600land]

I tried sfxtimer%2=0 and it works ok. I also am trying to make the death sound sound like a vegeterian eating something crunchy (celery.) That's what the point was all along. Try this version and see if it sounds ok.

 

celery20160827v2.zip

[+atari2600land]

I redid the title screen a little bit. I wasn't liking how the celery's lines weren't going up all the way to the end of the stalk. In order to do this, I had to make the celery's eyes a little different. Now the title screen looks like this. And he still blinks.

Edited August 28, 2016 by atari2600land

[JoeM_Intellivision]

Very nice - looking better each time. Keep up the nice work and good luck with game.

[Kiwi]

I redid the title screen a little bit. I wasn't liking how the celery's lines weren't going up all the way to the end of the stalk. In order to do this, I had to make the celery's eyes a little different. Now the title screen looks like this. And he still blinks.

I really like the new title screen.

[DZ-Jay]

LOL! I just played a couple of rounds of the latest build and that death sound made me laugh! I don't know if it sounds specifically like vegetarians munching on celery, but it does fit the scene, and it does sound close.

 

I do have some more feedback, if you don't mind.

• I like the lighter colour of Mr. Celery Bob, and I like his latest look with the lines going all the way to the top. I don't think it is absolutely necessary for you to make the eyes smaller or less round, you just need to be clever with your tile boundary alignment. However, title screen polish is something we can work on later, just keep it in mind. The important thing right now is the game-play mechanics and the fun-factor.
• I like the new Pea-Eating sound effect, it is reminiscent of *GULP!*.
• I like the transitions you added, although just to be sure, I don't think it is absolutely necessary to insert text or cut-scenes on every transition. Sometimes just a blank screen for several frames is enough for the eyes and expectations to adjust.
• I recommend a transition from the title screen to the first level. This is critical because the action is about to start and the player should be absolutely ready (plus, depending on when you hit the button, the music is abruptly cut mid-note and replaced with the level song, which is a bit jarring).
• When I finished Level #7, it threw me unceremoniously back into the title screen (?).
• I also noticed that the level layouts seem to repeat after level 5, although the vegetarian movement patterns look different. Perhaps there should be more level variation.
• If there are to be only 7 levels, I find the game much too easy. (Well, honestly, left as is I would still find the game too easy even if it had 20 levels.) There should be more to the challenge.
• The transition screens need work, but we can add some fancy graphics later.
• One half of the screen is dedicated to player statistics. It feels like it could be organized better and give more space to the play-field. The play-field could stay as is (it seems to be a nice size for the style of game), but the statistics could be better laid out to look nicer.
• It seems like you're using barely any graphics RAM and MOBs at all! In this day and age, that's pretty much a crime in the home-brew world. Why not get fancy with Mr. Celery Bob and make him double-vertical resolution and perhaps using more than one MOB to add some details? One very nice and simple detail could be to add white for the eyes, and make him look in the direction he is moving. Also all sprites could be animated to add some pizzaz to the game.

I did encounter a bug, though I can't seem to reproduce it faithfully:

• In at least two occasions, a death-by-vegetarian as registered when the vegetarian was still next to Mr. Celery Bob instead of on top. It's as if the collision was detected before the sprite moved into the new space, and triggered the event.

 

There's one last thing I'd like to add. I know you have a tendency to get frustrated with your games and stall your projects, but I want to encourage you to complete this one. Just like GoSub, I think it's a great idea and has a great potential to be a good and fun game, you just have to stick to it and figure out what's missing. I would also like to ask others to chip in as to what additional ideas could be tried to add challenge to the game. It is right now a very simple and easy game, and probably would fit perfectly for an age range of 4 to 6 years old (I can see little kids loving this game!).

 

However, I'm sure that there's something you can add to elevate it into a more interesting and challenging game for grown-ups too. The cute story goes some ways into adding depth to the game, but it is still missing something. Keep at it!

 

-dZ.

Edited August 28, 2016 by DZ-Jay

[timdu]

• > When I finished Level #7, it threw me unceremoniously back into the title screen (?).

That is what it does at this point. Did the same for me.

I have been in communication with atari2600land and he wants to have more levels... he is going to add them time as they are developed. In fact, I have offered to contribute a few level designs and when I inquired about the creation of levels, he explained how he is creating them in the .BAS file using hexidecimal.. . I thought it would be cool to design a level or two... it's a work in progress... I like the way people are chiming in giving good feedback ... makes me want to learn IntyBASIC !

 

[DZ-Jay]

I like the way people are chiming in giving good feedback ... makes me want to learn IntyBASIC !

 

 

You totally should.

 

-dZ.

[timdu]

I plan to. I have downloaded and installed IntyBASIC v1.2.6 on my computer. I am reading and trying to "digest" and "absorb" the MANUAL.TXT. That's my starting point.

[DZ-Jay]

I plan to. I have downloaded and installed IntyBASIC v1.2.6 on my computer. I am reading and trying to "digest" and "absorb" the MANUAL.TXT. That's my starting point.

 

Did you check out the IntyBASIC SDK? I know it's incomplete and has some issues, but it does simplify usage a bit.

 

-dZ.

[+atari2600land]

Yeah, I'm going to add more levels.

He's not supposed to eat the peas, he's supposed to save them from the vegetarians.

[DZ-Jay]

He's not supposed to eat the peas, he's supposed to save them from the vegetarians.

 

Oh! That makes sense. Nonetheless, the new sound is an improvement.

[+atari2600land]

I put the variables in data statements. It doesn't seem like it was saving that much space, like .5k or so. I had a bug where the pea wasn't being counted by the counter. The pea was disappearing, but no sound was made and the pea counter wasn't going down. I think I may have solved it and found the problem might have been that I was putting in extra wait statements, throwing off the pea sfx. I have a question. What is the difference between this:

    rem animate enemies.

    if enemytimer=1 then DEFINE DEF33,1,enemy : wait

    if enemytimer=enemyspeed/2 then DEFINE DEF33,1,enemy2 : wait

and this:

    rem animate enemies.

    if enemytimer=1 then DEFINE DEF33,1,enemy

    if enemytimer=enemyspeed/2 then DEFINE DEF33,1,enemy2

(aside from the waits are gone.) I tried both and both seem to work, but why should I put the wait statements in them?

celery20160828.zip

[+nanochess]

In fact you should not need to put a WAIT after a DEFINE when using these inside a main loop, you can count with them being updated in the next WAIT.

 

Just keep in mind that you shouldn't execute another DEFINE before the WAIT or the previous one will not be done.

[+atari2600land]

I figured I need a reason for an overlay, so I changed it so that pressing 1 is the normal version, and pressing 2 is a harder version. Both start on level 8, where I am proposing a new enemy. What it is, I don't know yet, so right now he's just another vegetarian. But this one moves in a certain pattern. It's mostly diagonal movement, but there's a hitch. To see it, download the latest rom version I've attached here. I want the new diagonal-moving enemy to be another vegetable, but I don't know what other vegetable I can draw in an 8x8 square is. So I'd like some sprite designing help.

celery20160830.zip

[+cmart604]

Is bacon a vegetable? Let's pretend it is so you can add bacon to your game. It makes everything better.

[+atari2600land]

But I designed this really groovy banana sprite and added it in.

 

celery20160830v2.zip

[carlsson]

Vegetable or not, I know that bacon wrapped celery really is a thing on the barbeque. A friend of mine does that every time we're having a barbeque party.

 

Perhaps Celery Bob can wrap himself in bacon to become temporarily invincible or something?

[+cmart604]

Vegetable or not, I know that bacon wrapped celery really is a thing on the barbeque. A friend of mine does that every time we're having a barbeque party.

 

Perhaps Celery Bob can wrap himself in bacon to become temporarily invincible or something?

This!

[DZ-Jay]

That is one psychotic banana! Perhaps you could clean it a bit so that it looks more recognizable. I understand that you were trying to make the banana have a curly peel, but being a single colour that doesn't come across well. You could try using two MOBs (if you have them) to make the banana white and its peel yellow.

 

By the way, regarding the music on the title screen: when I suggested to add variation, I meant in the full arrangement, like adding a bridge or second movement or something; not just another bar with a different progression. I think it was better the way it was before.

 

-dZ.

[+atari2600land]

The "peel" is its legs. It is walking around.