Spire of the Ancients (WIP)

[+Muddyfunster]

Jeez that's a nice big map  

[+Trebor]

15 hours ago, SmittyB said:

For those wanting a map, here it is so far albeit in 2 dimensions which won't help much where there's a lot of overlap.

Note that I consider this cheating and I really do need to know if people are actually able to get through what's in place so far without the map. If this bit is too difficult for some reason then the rest of it will be too and then what's the point if nobody enjoys it?

Just to offer a different perspective, some people prefer maps or/and their sense of direction is not as good as others (This may extend to real life as well ). 

 

Take a couple of game examples...NES Legend of Zelda.  A person playing back in the day, and even today, would be hard pressed to know where to go and what to do without a map.  Even so, it is well-known to be one of the best games for the platform by many individuals.  One of my favorite memories is having The Official Nintendo Player's Guide (It was the pack-in with my 'Control Deck' system), and leveraging the provided maps to play and make progress with the game.  Jumping to the PC - Starflight - provided a map of the Solar System, and is again one of my favorite games of all time. Rightly so, hailed as being one of the most amazing PC games ever - especially for its time.

 

The map doesn't necessarily have to be detailed with all secrets and specifics.  However, coming from personal preference and experience, a general overview map with provided major entrance and exit points for some/most areas would actually encourage me to play more, rather than perceiving the game as too difficult.  Plus, it provides even more incentive and serves as a nice bonus if printed with a physical release for the game. 

[+Karl G]

1 hour ago, Trebor said:

Just to offer a different perspective, some people prefer maps or/and their sense of direction is not as good as others (This may extend to real life as well ). 

Yeah. I've gotten lost returning from the bathroom in restaurants before. I only wish I were kidding.

 

I plan on doing a playthrough soon, and I'll see how I do without the map, but it's good to know that one exists if need be. 

[+SmittyB]

I apologise for what I said previously and understand completely that a map would allow some to enjoy the game more. I've attached the map file I use which is in a format for use with GraphicsGale which is now freeware.

SotA Map.gal

[gambler172]

Wow...really big....?

[+Trebor]

Deserves more attention...

 

 

[+Karl G]

I was able to play this on hardware for the first time, and it looks and sounds amazing! My SaveKey was detected successfully, though I wasn't able to survive long enough to make it to a save point, unfortunately. I have a few play notes based on my inital foray, however:

 

• The intro text screen flickers for the first second or two, but then stabilizes.
• Advancing to the next text screen with the button or pressing down seems to scroll the text two screens of text instead of one.
• I would really, really love for there to eventually be a way to switch items without using the console buttons, and still being able to use my AtariVox or SaveKey. Maybe a long button press or similar?

Anyway, I look forward to playing more when I get a chance. ?  

[+Trebor]

Some grid detailing to better understand the size of this world that SmittyB created. 

 

Each colored square represents a screen in the game (Minus the words "START" and "END").

 

I divided the map into six segments - each can be downloaded.

Click on each segment to enlarge the respective map piece further.

 

 

SmittyB...I noticed the 'Slime Maze' was turned off by default, so I left it that way while capturing the above.

 

*EDIT: Spoiler below contains a 1/4 scale version of the above with the key.  Click on the image to display it properly and fully.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jinks]

1 hour ago, Karl G said:

I was able to play this on hardware for the first time, and it looks and sounds amazing! My SaveKey was detected successfully, though I wasn't able to survive long enough to make it to a save point, unfortunately. I have a few play notes based on my inital foray, however:

 

• The intro text screen flickers for the first second or two, but then stabilizes.
• Advancing to the next text screen with the button or pressing down seems to scroll the text two screens of text instead of one.
• I would really, really love for there to eventually be a way to switch items without using the console buttons, and still being able to use my AtariVox or SaveKey. Maybe a long button press or similar?

Anyway, I look forward to playing more when I get a chance. ?  

I thought the star raiders pad on the p2 changed items? This worked great the last time I checked..

 

[+Karl G]

7 minutes ago, Jinks said:

I thought the star raiders pad on the p2 changed items? This worked great the last time I checked..

 

Yes, I did see this option, but I was hoping for something that would also allow me to use my SaveKey, too. ?

[+SmittyB]

1 hour ago, Karl G said:

The intro text screen flickers for the first second or two, but then stabilizes.

Can you try holding the pause button down while powering on to see if that changes it? Each of the 3 TVs I've played on (2 CRT, 1 LCD) have handled the colour-burst differently when switching it on and off mid-game, and it could be that the flicker is your TV trying to resynchronise the signal which might also cause it to flicker when pausing. I added the ability to keep the colour-burst in the HUD and text screens for maximum compatibility with TVs that might not like it.

 

1 hour ago, Karl G said:

Advancing to the next text screen with the button or pressing down seems to scroll the text two screens of text instead of one.

I recently changed how the text screens were drawn so it jumps an extra couple of lines farther than it should now when using the button. There's also no real delay when using the d-pad so I will need to tweak this eventually.

 

2 hours ago, Karl G said:

I would really, really love for there to eventually be a way to switch items without using the console buttons, and still being able to use my AtariVox or SaveKey. Maybe a long button press or similar?

I don't think I'll be able to add that in a practical way as much as I would like to. The closest would be either to use a High Score Cartridge with a second controller, or to swap out the AtariVox / SaveKey between save points. I've not tried swapping out mid-game with a second controller, and while it definitely won't work with a keypad it may work with a 1 or 2 button controller though I don't think I can condone that as an official solution if it does.

 

The downside of trying to map many controls to something with only 2 buttons. As it is the right difficulty switch has 2 functions depending on whether a keypad or AtariVox / Savekey is plugged in, not to mention the button combinations for a couple of things when powering on.

[+Karl G]

3 minutes ago, SmittyB said:

I don't think I'll be able to add that in a practical way as much as I would like to.

Yeah; I thought that might be the case. I had wondered if doing a long press on joystick buttons could work for this, but I realized that this would mean that the button press gets activated before you get the long-press option, or you would have to have button press actions only happen on button release, and both of these are probably bad ideas.

 

Doing a HSC for saving and a second controller is probably the best option. I just need to find a HSC now.  ?

[+SmittyB]

4 hours ago, Trebor said:

SmittyB...I noticed the 'Slime Maze' was turned off by default, so I left it that way while capturing the above.

I turned it off because it's technically not part of the map and is a bonus area that will be opened when starting a new game with a completed save. Based on something I did semi-jokingly a couple of years ago when I redrew the slime / ooduzos graphics.

 

[+Muddyfunster]

love the slime gfx, very nice.

[+Karl G]

4 hours ago, SmittyB said:

Can you try holding the pause button down while powering on to see if that changes it? Each of the 3 TVs I've played on (2 CRT, 1 LCD) have handled the colour-burst differently when switching it on and off mid-game, and it could be that the flicker is your TV trying to resynchronise the signal which might also cause it to flicker when pausing. I added the ability to keep the colour-burst in the HUD and text screens for maximum compatibility with TVs that might not like it.

Yeah; that made the difference. When I launched with pause held down, I didn't get the flicker with the intro text.

[+SmittyB]

That's good, it means it's your TV that's causing the flicker and also that it was a good idea to have added that setting.

 

It's up to you whether you want clearer text at the cost of having it flicker a bit, or no flicker and blurrier text by choosing to hold pause or not.

It's this way round because it's the better option when it works on a given TV.

[+Karl G]

3 minutes ago, SmittyB said:

That's good, it means it's your TV that's causing the flicker and also that it was a good idea to have added that setting.

 

It's up to you whether you want clearer text at the cost of having it flicker a bit, or no flicker and blurrier text by choosing to hold pause or not.

It's this way round because it's the better option when it works on a given TV.

Oh - is the disabling of the colorburst meant to prevent color artifacting with text in hi-res mode, then?

[+TwentySixHundred]

Yeah the slimes look really good, even with the simple pallet swap it signifies each slimes difficulty. Nice colour choices too ?

[+SmittyB]

11 hours ago, Karl G said:

Oh - is the disabling of the colorburst meant to prevent color artifacting with text in hi-res mode, then?

Exactly. Here's a couple of photos from my TV stitched together to show the difference. It's not unreadable with the colourburst enabled, but it's much nicer without. I'm also enabling / disabling the colourburst on the HUD but so far I've not seen a TV draw it without the interference, not that it really matters.

 

[+SmittyB]

While we're on a bit of a map kick here's a preview of the revised 'Garden Labyrinth' which is the next major area. The small hut in the middle is 'Wrakkd's Folly' which is the fourth, but I don't think a map will help with that one.

Before both will be a small hub area linking this with the currently available map and the sixth area 'The Gatehouse' but I don't have a decent concept for how the hub area will look right now.

 

[+Trebor]

Holy smokes, Blake...more areas!   

Curious if you're keeping track of the exact number of screens this game contains.   

I know we're at least several hundreds deep.  Has it cracked 1000 yet?

[gambler172]

Hi Smitty

in the actual version...i found a scroll...then i entered a room...with 2 guards???....then i got

an item.....and now?

[+SmittyB]

3 minutes ago, Trebor said:

Curious if you're keeping track of the exact number of screens this game contains.

I'm not keeping track and it'll keep changing over time, but I can tell you including the labyrinth it fits into 35 16*16 maps. That's not that helpful though as the edges wrap around and I'm using that for some of the longer paths so it's not just a case of looking at a grid.

[+TwentySixHundred]

Coming along really well @SmittyB the graphics look awesome and loving the torch lighting effects. I found the door to open that needed a key and obviously didn't have the key. Went on my hunt around to find it and did so, then i got lost looking for the door again lol. Was really fun though and im thinking if i slowed down my pace remembering exactly where i was, then probably could have found it. Turning out to be a great game that's cryptic and requires puzle and navigation solving in a way.

[+SmittyB]

Thanks, I've found that making the maps is a tricky balance between making things open and making them linear. I also have to fight myself to keep from filling every possible space as a way to make the most of the chunk of map data. 

 

As it is I decided (at least for the current demo) to keep the doors between the abandoned stores and the ruined outbuildings locked to prevent somebody from missing the path forward and getting lost in the starting areas.

I'll probably allow them to be unlocked in the final version as another way to get back to the underground section.

 

My current plan is to build a completed map, and then when the rest of the game is done expand some of the areas with whatever space remains on the cartridge. Now that the Concerto and Dragonfly are available I could maybe go beyond 144k and have an even more expansive world.