Keatah Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 It was this thread that got me into checking out the Ultima III graphics. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/263291-games-that-use-apple-ii-style-artifacting-for-colors/ Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3721125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 In Altirra, with artifacting set to high and the Authentic NTSC color selected I get these, depending on the position of the Artifacting Phase slider. I'm not able to achieve the look I get on Applewin where the landscape is green and the water is blue. Should I be able to do that? Or does Altirra need some more internal work on the artifacting routines? Does real hardware get the colors correct like the Apple does? No, you can't achieve that with the artifacting phase controls. Altirra's artifacting engine imitates the XL/XE series, which only produces opposite colors. The Apple II can produce a 90 degree color shift through a half-pixel delay, which the Atari can't do. Now, if you have a plain 800, then yes, you can get blue/green artifacting. Altirra doesn't emulate this yet, because I don't know enough details of how this effect occurs to be able to emulate it and it has to involve some currently unknown nonlinear cause. There was a post a few years ago with artifacting screenshots from every Atari model, and it seems that the 800 is the only one that does this -- not even the 400 has this effect. 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3721129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Correct. Applewin Apple II emulator tried this option. People complained. They eventually put in another option to enable/disable the confirmation. I prefer to not confirm resetting. And I speak with 20 years of emulator testing. A programmer or serious gamer should be saving their work periodically anyways. You can blame me in particular for complaining. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3721790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 As soon as I get back to the US and get my hands on an 800, I'll figure out exactly what's going on. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3721897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 In the near future I see a new tick box on the color adjustment screen - [=] 800 artifacting on/off. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3721934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 In the near future I see a new tick box on the color adjustment screen - [=] 800 artifacting on/off. I certainly wouldn't bet against it. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3721947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Hi Avery, Just been playing about with http://atariage.com/forums/topic/252283-straight-cracks-from-farbs-atx-torrent/page-7?do=findComment&comment=3725857 And its a really odd one, any fully emulated drives fail to pass the protection no matter if all the suspects like Fast boot are turned off, if I set it to or not to accurate it dies but if I remove the drives and just use the old non fully emulated ones it will work if accurate is turned off. Found it weird that it wants a non standard timing to work but fubars on a Happy etc or even a fully emulated 810 or 1050.. I set the startup memory pattern to pretty much all of them and that cured noting with read drive emulation. Is this down to the way this disk may have been backed up? I *think* I tried every other OS rom (all selected by Altirra in the scan), It also needed NTSC to boot, seems its really odd about the timing?? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3725986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/252283-straight-cracks-from-farbs-atx-torrent/page-7?do=findComment&comment=3725857 And its a really odd one, any fully emulated drives fail to pass the protection no matter if all the suspects like Fast boot are turned off, if I set it to or not to accurate it dies but if I remove the drives and just use the old non fully emulated ones it will work if accurate is turned off. It's a bad image. The skew align (the alignment of sectors across tracks) is not correct. If you run the disk image with fast disk mode, then this will result in recreating virtually the correct skew align. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3726463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Thanks ijor, I was pretty sure it was the image so its great to get an expert confirm it....Hopefully it will get a proper crack... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3726473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) Probably me but when booting up the Howfen Dual Density compilation disks using full emulation hardware drives it boots the first sectors or so and then anything off the menu just sounds like its reading bad sectors, other HD disks seem fine. Emulated standard emulated drives boot the atr's but an XF551 just crashes when it tries to load the games.. Sample disk attached to save time.. Me? EDIT: Played more and it seems only the Howfens are affected, some sort of weird call within the drive? Games 444.atr Edited March 25, 2017 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3726707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 Unsupported disk geometry. The boot menu says dual (medium) density, but the disk image has 1120 sectors instead of 1040. This isn't a standard size and the emulator maps it to a virtual hard disk format for SDX with 1 track and 1120 sectors, which then causes the XF551 to fail to read anything beyond track 0. AFAIK the XF551 doesn't support any FM disk formats with more than 1040 sectors. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3727607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 1050 DOS 2.5 style Enhanced Density is MFM, so I don't know why the XF-551 would need to support FM at anything over 720 sectors. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3727612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) Thanks for the answer Avery, it begs the question, what drive would have read these images? As said the Non firmware emulated drives do but in the real world? Edited March 27, 2017 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3727905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 Thanks for the answer Avery, it begs the question, what drive would have read these images? As said the Non firmware emulated drives do but in the real world? I believe this particular image is just the result of an imaging accident rather than a real geometry. The menu says dual density, after all. As for physical disk image formats that could accommodate it, it looks like the ATR8000 could do large-capacity single density. Double-sided or 80 tracks on an 8" disk would do it, for instance, since its 8" single density format is natively 26 sectors/track. This would also have the benefit of the hilariously large 8" form factor, which for someone like me who grew up in the 5.25" era, always looked like a demonstration prop you'd bring to Career Day at your kid's school. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3728544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I had disks that acted like that till I realized they were cp/a disks, I have since learned to keep an entire stack of drives standard thru each and every mod and type 810 thru xf then load everydos known one at a time and then try in each drive... I found a number of 'blank' or non bootable disks only booted in a certain drive that way.... and no it isn't alignment that does it... it's the dos itself... weather it was syncromesh, ultraskew, one of the XF speed modes... or even the drives controller/track buffer etc. ... please don't pick on 8 inch disks.... I have a number of them I need data off of.... and yes I still used them up until a couple of years ago... 1.2 megabyte storage for the Atari at high speed through and s-100 was and is nothing to sneeze at!.... and they worked on the atr-8000 to a degree as well.... They are indeed good storage and not hilarious props! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3728622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 cp/a? Is that control program for accountants? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3728959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 nah its like 'Bit', its from TRON Still love that film... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3728998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Well, this is an old SIO2PC bug, the software SIO2PC.EXE version 2.x or 3.x (a DOS program) by N. Kennedy created Dual/Medium/Enhanced/DOS 2.5 disk-images with 140k in length instead of 130k. Do not know of a PC program to correct this ATR atm (most fixer programs only test for shortened images that have less than 90kbytes), but one can use several old A8 sectorcopy programs and SIO2PC to copy these images back onto standard 130k disks or images, e.g. Sectorcopy 2, Mycopier! 1.2c, Syncopy, etc. You will need a sectorcopy program where you can set the density/format manually, since most sectorcopy programs that detect the density/format automatically will see this 140k image as a single density/90k diskette... At one time, I also downloaded shortened 130k disk images, e.g. an ATR image with a length of 112kbytes (posted by Heaven some years ago). The PC fixer programs also did not work here (since the image was bigger than 90k), but again some of the old A8 sectorcopy programs with manual format/density setting worked fine there. Edited March 28, 2017 by CharlieChaplin Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3729086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 CP/A was actually the original name of OS/A+ ... ..but something tells me, he meant CP/M? -Thom Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3729377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitoco Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Hi! Is it possible to configure PADDLE B as the vertical axis of the mouse in order that the range goes from 0 at the top and 228 at the bottom? Currently 228 is at the top and I thought that "Inverted" option in the input mappings should do the trick, but it didn't. I'm using version 2.81. Thanks... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3730110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Is it possible to configure PADDLE B as the vertical axis of the mouse in order that the range goes from 0 at the top and 228 at the bottom? Currently 228 is at the top and I thought that "Inverted" option in the input mappings should do the trick, but it didn't. If you are using Mouse Vert Move as the source, then yeah, there's a bug preventing that from working -- Inverted isn't hooked up for impulse events. Fortunately, there is an equivalent: bind to Left on the paddle controller instead. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3730185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitoco Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 If you are using Mouse Vert Move as the source, then yeah, there's a bug preventing that from working -- Inverted isn't hooked up for impulse events. Fortunately, there is an equivalent: bind to Left on the paddle controller instead. I don't understand why, but it worked. Thanks! Was that workaround another bug? Should all that be solved? As there is no predefined Paddle B controller in Altirra, I should have to incluse instructions to set up that in the emulator, and this trick does not seems natural. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3730336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Konopka Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) There is a bug in Altirra with ANTIC palette emulation. Real hardware is ignoring the least significant bit when interpreting color indices in color map (leads to 128 palette entries being used effectively), whereas the emulation software takes it into account (complete set of 256 entries is used). Notice the top panel colors. Altirra: Real HW: Edited March 30, 2017 by Marek Konopka 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3730748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Since when was rick dangerous done for the Atari 8 bits? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3730760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 There is a bug in Altirra with ANTIC palette emulation. Real hardware is ignoring the least significant bit when interpreting color indices in color map (leads to 128 palette entries being used effectively), whereas the emulation software takes it into account (complete set of 256 entries is used). Notice the top panel colors. Altirra: Real HW: Care to post the ATR for verification? 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/256683-altirra-280-released/page/21/#findComment-3730801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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