omf Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Is there any chance of an option to force NTSC colour pallet when using the RGB out on pal games, there are instances (Bentley bear crystal quest) for one that on NTSC machines the ‘bear’ is brown, on PAL machines, he is green and looks like a recycling wheelybin! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 On 1/11/2023 at 4:02 PM, SainT said: It just augments the consoles capabilities, if you want to use composite video, you can! So I could take the video from the console and not have to use the on cart video correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 That is my understanding. Whatever video out you already have set up on your console with the option of taking RGB from the cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 10 hours ago, omf said: Is there any chance of an option to force NTSC colour pallet when using the RGB out on pal games, there are instances (Bentley bear crystal quest) for one that on NTSC machines the ‘bear’ is brown, on PAL machines, he is green and looks like a recycling wheelybin! Yes, that’s perfectly possible. I wasn’t aware some games forgot to change the colours for PAL! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 8 hours ago, Shawn said: So I could take the video from the console and not have to use the on cart video correct? Of course, it’s just a cartridge. It doesn’t affect the way the console works, it just expands it’s capabilities. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 As I understand it, the cartridge's video output is RGB-only. Is there any possibility of it eventually supporting S-Video and / or composite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omf Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 hours ago, SainT said: Yes, that’s perfectly possible. I wasn’t aware some games forgot to change the colours for PAL! for example 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) In Crystal Quest I actually *did* change the colors for PAL; although it looks like I may have chosen the wrong colors to map to. Back then, I used to use 'sed' to remove the ';NTSC' and ';PAL' comment headers in the code below depending on what I was building. (Now I just auto-detect and use a routine to add $10 to the color, with some exceptions): Quote ; COLOR DEFINITIONS ;NTSC BLACK = $00 ;NTSC DKGREY = $04 ;NTSC GREY = $08 ;NTSC LTGREY = $0C ;NTSC WHITE = $0F ;NTSC YELLOW = $1C ;NTSC GOLD = $2C ;NTSC ORANGE = $3C ;NTSC DKDKRED = $30 ;NTSC DKRED = $34 ;NTSC RED = $38 ;NTSC LTRED = $3C ;NTSC DKDKPINK = $50 ;NTSC DKPINK = $54 ;NTSC PINK = $58 ;NTSC LTPINK = $5C ;NTSC DKDKPURPLE = $60 ;NTSC DKPURPLE = $64 ;NTSC PURPLE = $68 ;NTSC LTPURPLE = $6C ;NTSC DKDKBLUE = $80 ;NTSC DKBLUE = $84 ;NTSC BLUE = $88 ;NTSC LTBLUE = $8C ;NTSC TEAL = $A8 ;NTSC DKDKAQUA = $A0 ;NTSC DKAQUA = $A4 ;NTSC AQUA = $A8 ;NTSC LTAQUA = $AC ;NTSC DKDKGREEN = $C0 ;NTSC DKGREEN = $C4 ;NTSC GREEN = $C8 ;NTSC LTGREEN = $CC ;NTSC DKDKBROWN = $F6;$F0 ;NTSC DKBROWN = $F9;$F4 ;NTSC BROWN = $FC;$F8 ;NTSC LTBROWN = $FF;$FC ;PAL BLACK = $00 ;PAL LTPINK = $5E ;PAL WHITE = $0E ;PAL PINK = $57 ;PAL GREEN = $D4 ;PAL PURPLE = $63 ;PAL DKPURPLE = $60 ;PAL BLUE = $96 ;PAL YELLOW = $2E ;PAL LTBLUE = $AE ;PAL DKBLUE = $82 ;PAL BROWN = $26 ;PAL LTGREEN = $DC ;PAL LTBROWN = $24 ;PAL GOLD = $2A ;PAL HOTPINK = $54 ;PAL ORANGE = $3A ;PAL AQUA = $BB ;PAL DKDKRED = $40 ;PAL DKRED = $44 ;PAL RED = $48 ;PAL LTRED = $4C ;PAL DKGREEN = $D2 ;PAL DKDKGREEN = $D0 ;PAL DKBROWN = $22 ;PAL DKDKBROWN = $20 ;PAL GREY = $06 ;PAL TEAL = $A8 ;PAL LTPURPLE = $6A ;PAL LTAQUA = $BF ;PAL LTGREY = $0C ;PAL DKDKBLUE = $80 ;PAL DKAQUA = $B4 Edited January 14 by PacManPlus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said: As I understand it, the cartridge's video output is RGB-only. Is there any possibility of it eventually supporting S-Video and / or composite? Nope, RGB only I’m afraid! You can get RGB to composite converters for a better composite image than the 7800 will natively provide, I would expect. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 7 hours ago, SainT said: Of course, it’s just a cartridge. It doesn’t affect the way the console works, it just expands it’s capabilities. Fantastic! I greatly prefer this as I've come across a couple carts that you had to take the video from the cartridge based to how it was designed. Knowing your cart is able to use the consoles video out on it's own is very reassuring. Thanks for clarifying that for me. EDIT: It really looks like your 7800 cart is going to be the best option to date and will surpass all other offerings. I can't wait for it. Edited January 14 by Shawn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Any idea what will be the final price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Eagle said: Any idea what will be the final price? No, not yet, that really is the final thing I look at. I have a rough price in mind, but I’m not going to say anything until I’m sure. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 hours ago, SainT said: Nope, RGB only I’m afraid! You can get RGB to composite converters for a better composite image than the 7800 will natively provide, I would expect. I'm sure it will be fine, but has anyone testing it with the HD Retrovision GEN cables? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 It should work, but not tested yet! It will be, though. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Trebor Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/14/2023 at 8:30 AM, PacManPlus said: In Crystal Quest I actually *did* change the colors for PAL; although it looks like I may have chosen the wrong colors to map to. Back then, I used to use 'sed' to remove the ';NTSC' and ';PAL' comment headers in the code below depending on what I was building. (Now I just auto-detect and use a routine to add $10 to the color, with some exceptions) On 1/13/2023 at 4:07 PM, omf said: Is there any chance of an option to force NTSC colour pallet when using the RGB out on pal games, there are instances (Bentley bear crystal quest) for one that on NTSC machines the ‘bear’ is brown, on PAL machines, he is green and looks like a recycling wheelybin! On 1/14/2023 at 2:53 AM, SainT said: Yes, that’s perfectly possible. I wasn’t aware some games forgot to change the colours for PAL! It's important to keep in mind, back when Bentley Bear was under development and released (2011-2013), as well as other homebrew games during that time period and earlier, the ProSystem emulator was the standard, including its default one shared color palette between both NTSC and PAL regions. The more recent PAL colors emulator accuracy (shown below), availability and overall understandings we have today as part of the testbed, is something that was not readily available for reference back then: Hindsight is 20/20. Clearly, Bob's listed current selection method would have made for better colors then. For example, PAL $23 and $28, or of similar PAL $2x range, nowadays, would be leveraged for the 'brown' selections of Bentley, instead of PAL $13 and $18 that was used back then. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 This is looking awesome! I'm totally in for buying one. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
128Kgames Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 4 hours ago, tep392 said: This is looking awesome! I'm totally in for buying one. I'm ready to sign up for one as well! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiLic0ne t0aD Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Super stoked for this.. I'm dying for some 7800 RGB! Instant buy for me. 👍 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 How is it possible to generate RGB via the cart port? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Trebor Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 4 hours ago, Stephen said: How is it possible to generate RGB via the cart port? FPGA implementation of the MARIA chip that runs in tandem with the console. Ditto for the TIA, which allows the 2600 mode to also have RGB out. MARIA implementation is SainT's own. TIA implementation is leveraged from MiSTer FPGA. To be clear, leveraging the RGB output of the 7800GD is completely optional. It can be used strictly for its flash/multi-cart ROM support features and just stick to the original RF or whatever console mod is already in place on the respective 7800. There is no interference, conflict, or compatibility issue. Genesis/MegaDrive 2 RGB cables can be leveraged for the 7800GD RGB video output such as Composite or SCART. There are even HDMI cables and adapters available. Works great with the RetroTINK-5x too. The optional Mega7800 MegaDrive pad adapter will allow users to press the Start button on a Sega Genesis controller to bring up the 7800GD in-game menu screen.* *EDIT: To add, the state save and reload feature. For all games, real-time state save and load. Also, software volume control for all external audio chips (Includes support for Rikki & Vikki BupChip sound). If using the video/audio output of the 7800GD, TIA audio level is adjustable, otherwise TIA volume is the default level of the console. 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Wow, that's super impressive! This approach would also correct edge-case display issues that some TIAs exhibit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 Yep, what @Trebor said! A perfect recap. With the TIA via FPGA I can help improve vsync stability a bit, but it will still be a little jittery. This is why I recommend an upscaler which has triple buffer capability (like tink 5xp) for maximum compatibility. If your TV is happy with hdmi jitter (my monitor doesn’t care at all), then you can simply use frame lock, but if it’s not (my bravia is unbelievably picky) then you’ll need to switch to triple buffer to get a picture. If you’re using a CRT, then it’s all good. CRTs just work. 😄 One thing worth mentioning is that the in-game menu allows state save and reload, which is a nice feature. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Trebor Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, SainT said: One thing worth mentioning is that the in-game menu allows state save and reload, which is a nice feature. Edited the post and added. Also made mention of the audio control options. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 @SainT Sorry, I'm pretty sure that I've asked this, but I can't find the post anywhere. Will I be able to link the GD7800 directly to my PC to transfer test builds, via USB? Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 1 minute ago, Muddyfunster said: @SainT Sorry, I'm pretty sure that I've asked this, but I can't find the post anywhere. Will I be able to link the GD7800 directly to my PC to transfer test builds, via USB? Thanks! Not via USB, no, however there is a serial port on the side which can be connected to the PC via a USB<>RS232 type adapter. I don’t have any support for uploading builds or debugging yet, but that is to come. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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