The 7800GD (New 7800 Flash Cartridge?)

[SainT]

10 hours ago, thanatos said:

I'm glad you have been able to stick with it.   Can't believe this thread is almost 7 years old, since you were working on the Jaguar Gamedrive first, and it was definitely worth the wait for that one!

Hah, I know, it’s crazy. I did start the thread quite prematurely, I did the Jag, NeoPocket and Lynx mk2 before finally getting to the 7800. Worth the wait, though… 😆

[+sramirez2008]

This is always parked in my Lynx II.

[Trebor]

7 hours ago, sramirez2008 said:

3050 Light Phaser and Mega Drive 2 AV Composite cable ordered! This is going to be fun. 🙂 

Purchased my AV cable from Amazon directly by Retro-Bit off Amazon. 

There are some cheaper cables, on ebay and elsewhere, but I wanted to ensure quality. 

For $11 and change, the peace of mind was worth it for me.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

7 hours ago, sramirez2008 said:

3050 Light Phaser and Mega Drive 2 AV Composite cable ordered! This is going to be fun. 🙂 

I assume you bought the cable for audio output then since @SainT has stated several times that he didn't run composite output to the RGB and only connected up csync for those RGB transcoder cables that require it like the Rad2x and HDRetrovision cables? 

 

[SainT]

2 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I assume you bought the cable for audio output then since @SainT has stated several times that he didn't run composite output to the RGB and only connected up csync for those RGB transcoder cables that require it like the Rad2x and HDRetrovision cables? 

 

I was just about to comment on that also! The composite pin is connected, but it’s only there for sync, correct. This is for cables like HDRetrovision component cables which require the composite video pin only for sync. I have tested these cables and they do work.

 

If you use a composite MD2 AV cable, IT WILL NOT WORK, you will just get a white screen. The output from the AV port is RGB only. If you want to use composite then you will can either mod the console or use an RGB to composite converter.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

2 minutes ago, SainT said:

I was just about to comment on that also! The composite pin is connected, but it’s only there for sync, correct. This is for cables like HDRetrovision component cables which require the composite video pin only for sync. I have tested these cables and they do work.

 

If you use a composite MD2 AV cable, IT WILL NOT WORK, you will just get a white screen. The output from the AV port is RGB only. If you want to use composite then you will can either mod the console or use an RGB to composite converter.

You could still use a standard sega composite AV cable for the audio and use another video out method though correct? Such as if your console is already AV upgraded in some way or use the RF for the video out and use a set of sega cables for the audio portion?

 

[SainT]

24 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

You could still use a standard sega composite AV cable for the audio and use another video out method though correct? Such as if your console is already AV upgraded in some way or use the RF for the video out and use a set of sega cables for the audio portion?

 

Yes, absolutely, if you just wanted the stereo audio from the AV connector you could do this. The audio from the cart is also piped into the 7800 as POKEY is, so you can still get the YM/COVOX/POKEY/BUPCHIP audio via your normal audio mod or even RF modulator too.

[+DrVenkman]

59 minutes ago, SainT said:

The audio from the cart is also piped into the 7800 as POKEY is, so you can still get the YM/COVOX/POKEY/BUPCHIP audio via your normal audio mod or even RF modulator too.

Good to get confirmation on this for those of us in NTSC-land where RGB is just Not A Thing(tm) for consumer grade TVs and displays. That’s how vintage POKEY games worked, so those of us with composite/S-video mods can get our sound as we do ordinarily. 

[+Muddyfunster]

For UK/European users, the cable I'm using with the 7800GD is this one from Ebay : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154485800631

 

This one is working just fine.

 

I also have some OSSC profiles that i'll share later for PAL and NTSC for those folks using an OSSC to connect.

 

 

[SainT]

33 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Good to get confirmation on this for those of us in NTSC-land where RGB is just Not A Thing(tm) for consumer grade TVs and displays. That’s how vintage POKEY games worked, so those of us with composite/S-video mods can get our sound as we do ordinarily. 

The MD2 component cables are a good compromise here for the US. Not cheap, but it’s the sort of thing you may have already from your Genesis. 😄

[+DrVenkman]

3 hours ago, SainT said:

The MD2 component cables are a good compromise here for the US. Not cheap, but it’s the sort of thing you may have already from your Genesis. 😄

Hmmm ... my main gaming CRT is a 27" Toshiba with component inputs. Might give that a try eventually.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, DrVenkman said:

Hmmm ... my main gaming CRT is a 27" Toshiba with component inputs. Might give that a try eventually.

Another option for about the same cost..is to get on the pre-order for a Rad2x for the Genesis from Retrogamingcables in the UK. Then you could connect your 7800 via HDMI to a modern display.

 

[+DrVenkman]

10 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Another option for about the same cost..is to get on the pre-order for a Rad2x for the Genesis from Retrogamingcables in the UK. Then you could connect your 7800 via HDMI to a modern display.

 

Not a fan of most retro systems on flat screen HDTV's. Even setting aside the issues related to scanline weirdness with 2600, 5200 and potentially some 7800 games when converting to HDMI, as @Trebor has documented exhaustively, using a flatscreen skews the color values as compared to CRTs for most games and I'd have to tweak the color pots in my systems. I have multiple CRTs in my game room for my consoles and Atari computers. I leave the big 4K TV for movies and modern consoles.  

[+-^CrossBow^-]

5 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Not a fan of most retro systems on flat screen HDTV's. Even setting aside the issues related to scanline weirdness with 2600, 5200 and potentially some 7800 games when converting to HDMI, as @Trebor has documented exhaustively, using a flatscreen skews the color values as compared to CRTs for most games and I'd have to tweak the color pots in my systems. I have multiple CRTs in my game room for my consoles and Atari computers. I leave the big 4K TV for movies and modern consoles.  

But the 7800GD has palettes programed to compensate for that as I understand it? That is what I'm curious to see as the palettes from A7800 have been used for the 7800GD. I believe that is correct right @SainT?

 

[+DrVenkman]

6 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

But the 7800GD has palettes programed to compensate for that as I understand it? That is what I'm curious to see as the palettes from A7800 have been used for the 7800GD. I believe that is correct right @SainT?

 

That's great for those who want to do that. For others of us, it's irrelevant. I have a gorgeous Toshiba CRT right here that works wonderfully, and a similar vintage spare model in storage. I'm good.

[SainT]

11 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

But the 7800GD has palettes programed to compensate for that as I understand it? That is what I'm curious to see as the palettes from A7800 have been used for the 7800GD. I believe that is correct right @SainT?

 

It has CRT based colour palettes, not the lcd tweaked ones — although I could add the lcd ones also. I’m assuming people will be connecting to modern TVs via an hdmi upscaler, which I will leave to do colour fixing. Due to the very jittery nature of the 7800 sync I’m not sure how well modern tv’s will deal with the video signal natively, my Bravias do not like it at all.

[SainT]

12 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Another option for about the same cost..is to get on the pre-order for a Rad2x for the Genesis from Retrogamingcables in the UK. Then you could connect your 7800 via HDMI to a modern display.

 

It will depend on your TV for things like the Rad2x. it is a line based upscaler and so does nothing to help remove sync jitter. Modern TV’s generally do not like jitter on HDMI, however some are perfectly happy. Again, my Bravias will show no picture using an OSSC (line based), but my monitors gave no problem. My recommendation is to use a frame buffer based solution such as the RetroTink5x Pro as thins works with everything.

[Trebor]

15 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

But the 7800GD has palettes programed to compensate for that as I understand it? That is what I'm curious to see as the palettes from A7800 have been used for the 7800GD. I believe that is correct right @SainT?

 

3 hours ago, SainT said:

It has CRT based colour palettes, not the lcd tweaked ones — although I could add the lcd ones also. I’m assuming people will be connecting to modern TVs via an hdmi upscaler, which I will leave to do colour fixing. Due to the very jittery nature of the 7800 sync I’m not sure how well modern tv’s will deal with the video signal natively, my Bravias do not like it at all.

To emphasize, indeed the RGB palettes being used, like A7800, provide output colors/hues as originally intended by the original hardware and software developers.

For example, utilizing the NTSC Hue $1x range, provides a hue in the gold/goldenrod spectrum, as typically seen under a CRT, not green/chartreuse spectrum, as typically seen under a LCD.

Games such as BasketBrawl, Commando, Pole Position II, and others, demonstrate this very significant difference.

Even when connected to a modern TV, the 7800GD RGB output will produce colors as if connected to a CRT.

[Onlyfordj]

To date, since which country is it shipped?

[SainT]

33 minutes ago, Onlyfordj said:

To date, since which country is it shipped?

It will be most likely shipping from UK, Germany, USA and Canada.

[+rdemming]

On 5/27/2023 at 3:21 PM, DrVenkman said:

Good to get confirmation on this for those of us in NTSC-land where RGB is just Not A Thing(tm) for consumer grade TVs and displays. That’s how vintage POKEY games worked, so those of us with composite/S-video mods can get our sound as we do ordinarily. 

For those in NTSC-land, I recommend trying to get an old fashioned RGB CRT monitor (like Commodore 1084S, Atari SC1435, Philips CM8533 or similar) and build an appropriate RGB cable. RGB on such monitors is so much better than Composite video/S-video on TVs or even the same monitor 😋

The same for those in PAL or SECAM land  😁

[SainT]

10 minutes ago, rdemming said:

The same for those in PAL or SECAM land  😁

Very easy over here, CRT TV's in general all have RGB SCART connections! Just plug and play.

[+DrVenkman]

11 minutes ago, rdemming said:

For those in NTSC-land, I recommend trying to get an old fashioned RGB CRT monitor (like Commodore 1084S, Atari SC1435, Philips CM8533 or similar) and build an appropriate RGB cable. RGB on such monitors is so much better than Composite video/S-video on TVs or even the same monitor 😋

The same for those in PAL or SECAM land  😁

Again, nope. S-video already eliminates composite artifacting, which ruins the image for some early A8 titles which were designed with Gr.8 artifacting in mind, and it changes the appearance of 7800 games like Tower Topper. Remember, these games were intended to be displayed on low- and mid-range consumer TVs through RF or maybe composite. I understand many people ave fallen under the sway of the Cult of RGB, but not everything needs it or benefits from it.

 

Also, and worth repeating … people need to stop telling others how to have fun.  

[+darryl1970]

16 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Again, nope. S-video already eliminates composite artifacting, which ruins the image for some early A8 titles which were designed with Gr.8 artifacting in mind, and it changes the appearance of 7800 games like Tower Topper. Remember, these games were intended to be displayed on low- and mid-range consumer TVs through RF or maybe composite. I understand many people ave fallen under the sway of the Cult of RGB, but not everything needs it or benefits from it.

I get the distaste for S-Video under certain circumstances.  The BG color choice on the Popeye ship level causes the staircases to be a different color than the floors. That is why I chose it. It's a bonus that it matched my cabinet's BG color. It was really hard to capture this with my phone, and it's not as pronounced as it is on my TV. The phone wants to correct it and make the steps the same color. I managed to capture it to where it's somewhat noticeable. It's especially noticeable up by Brutus's left arm. The steps are similar to the flesh color of Popeye and Brutus, while the floors are yellow. However, they are ALL the same color. This is not noticeable in emulation. I doubt it is on S-Video, but I do not know for sure.

With that sad, I will be interested to see if S-Video will preserve that nuance. The 7800GD will allow me to experiment, which it great. I am more put off by displays that eliminate scanlines than artifacting, as that affects ALL games.  I do greatly appreciate artifacting and some blur on the older systems. Most of my systems greater than the 7800 are A/V or S-video, but I like the old-school look for the games I played using the RF/CRT combination.

 

Overall, it boils down to what caught our attention early on or what we grew up with. I relied on artifacts for my 800XL. I thought the scanlines were Donkey Kong's fur in the arcade game. I loved the "bricks" that made up Pac-Man and the monsters, on the cover of the Pac-Man Fever album. That grabs my attention. I focused on that a lot growing up.

 

It seems we all have preferences. Some like carts, and some prefer ROMs. I find it interesting how many of our preferences tie to something that impacted our personal experiences. I enjoy hearing those details more than I really care about the end result. LOL. I've sometimes seen a different perspective that I didn't notice before.

 

It's cool that the GD will allow for a variety of options.

 

 

 

[Greg2600]

My Longhorn-modded 7800 has bad artifacting, and shows up on many games particularly 2600 titles.  I'll be glad to give this cart a go with my HDR cables, on my component-ready CRT, rather than having the mod replaced with a UAV.