The 7800GD (New 7800 Flash Cartridge?)

[+DrVenkman]

But it's all thievery in the end. And a 7800 sd cart would typically by design support 2600 compatibility, which then opens the door to the theft of thousands of actively sold IPs.

 

Um, are you a lawyer licensed to practice and qualified to opine on the nuances of copyright in the United States and across the many jurisdictions in which the members of this forum live? If not, you're painting with a very broad brush. And if so, you're painting a very broad brush *AND* potentially committing legal malpractice.

​Having said that, there are not in any way, shape, form or fashion "thousands of actively sold IPs for the 2600." There certainly WERE maybe two thousand-ish 2600 compatible ROMs produced, published and sold around the world by dozens of publishers. Most of those are long since gone to wherever it is old former companies go: bankruptcy, merger, asset-sale, whatever. Whatever IP they may have produced and/or had the rights to sell may or may not have gone the way of the parent entity: abandoned without anyone or anything left to assert a claim over them, sold independent of the company that created it, licensed to 3rd parties (which themselves may or may not exist or have transferred their rights to yet others).

 

Something that calls itself "Atari" still exists. Activision still exists. Sega still exists. How long has the Harmony Cart been produced and sold? If those entities don't care to raise the issue (and in my opinion they would have no standing to do so anyway ... ) then it's certainly not your, my or anyone else's job here to play Internet Cop. And as far as that goes, "Atari" even allowed this past year's FB Portable to include an SD card reader and the ability to play ROMS loaded that way. They, at least, seem to finally grasp the inherent value in an active and vibrant fandom and community support for what is otherwise a thoroughly-obsolete brand.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

A lot of the high score carts didn't work. Myself it took me over a year to get mine back from Curt Vendel after I sent it back to him. After I got it back it worked for the most part but not all the time and it ate batteries like you would not believe. I guess the ones with the upgraded NVRAM worked much better but I didn't want to take the risk after all the BS with the first one.

Would a flash based solution without batteries not be possible?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Would a flash based solution without batteries not be possible?

Curt actually did make a version that didn't require a battery and was flash based. That is what was referenced with the NVRAM version. Curt even offered a trade in program at one time to upgrade to the newer, but I found out about it too late. I had hoped that the only issue with mine all these years had been a bad battery holder, but nope. Mine works, until you power it off LOL.

Edited May 22, 2017 by -^Cro§Bow^-

[CPUWIZ]

Curt actually did make a version that didn't require a battery and was flash based. That is what was referenced with the NVRAM version. Curt even offered a trade in program at one time to upgrade to the newer, but I found out about it too late. I had hoped that the only issue with mine all these years had been a bad battery holder, but nope. Mine works, until you power it off LOL.

 

I'd love to take a look at it, I bet it is pretty easy to fix and I would do it out of curiosity, never seen one of those boards up close.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I'm not saying homebrewers are hypocrites. I'm saying I find it an odd style of mental gymnastics that in the same breath someone wants to limit the potential to rip off a home brewer who *freely* provides their roms to the forum here, knowing people will play them without paying, but yet doesn't have a problem with the promotion of playing thousands of stolen/illegal rom files from a commercial source.

 

I suppose it's a bit of honor among thieves or something, in that it's ok to rip off the big corporation because they won't feel it, but not ok to do it to a hobbyist. I get the notion. I understand the sentiment. But it's all thievery in the end. And a 7800 sd cart would typically by design support 2600 compatibility, which then opens the door to the theft of thousands of actively sold IPs. So while defending the little guy sounds more noble, it's really the same thing either way - to me.

 

I wouldn't want an sd cart that can't play homebrews and hacks, because there are tons of homebrews and hacks that aren't released on cart, and emulation still isn't the same thing. If a home brewer chooses to code some drm into their rom to prevent SD cart use - great, more power to them. But doing it at the ad cart level seems a bit presumptuous.

 

I really can't believe people discussing the legalities of an SD cart, again. Yes, it's legal gray area to run commercial ROMs or share homebrews without the permission of the author. But the legality of said usage of the end user does not make the flash cart device itself an illegal device, especially if it can be used for legal uses (ie development).

 

Yes, homebrewers (some) release their games for free. Others go through a public beta stage, and the final version that gets released on cart may be slightly or significantly different to the early public access betas, but I digress. Flash carts are an invaluable tool for homebrewers to test their games on real hardware so any measures to lock out homebrew games running on flash carts would also impede development of said games.

 

I am also strongly opposed to any type of DRM system that would lock homebrew software to a specific flash cart (ie, copying the encrypted ROM from one flashcart to another or attempting to run in an emulator results in an unplayable file that only works on the flash cart it was originally downloaded to). This is an important step for hardware and software developers entering into an agreement to establish a secure marketplace for modern consoles that predominantly use downloaded software purchased online. These companies go to great expense to produce a product and expect that their product will be protected from theft. However, enabling such a secure downloadable marketplace for a flashcart to be used on ancient pre-internet consoles, to protect the rights of homebrew developed games, will only cause more problems than it solves.

 

I don't consider it necessary at all, as physical cart sales mostly take care of the DRM aspect of things. The physical cart is a container for the game program, and most people with the technical ability to dump homebrew games, so far, have also respected the rights of the homebrewers who place their games onto the carts.

 

I'm fine with creating a digital marketplace where users who want to play the games but don't want to deal with carts can download unprotected ROMs, using honor system (and possibly store some embedded identification data in the free bits, stored to an undisclosed location of the ROM, in order to identify anyone who tries to disseminate downloaded ROMs to sharing sites), and play back said ROMs on their own device, be it a PC, Raspberry Pi, a flash cart for an original hardware console, etc.

 

TL;DR: If paid downloads are an option, I think they should not be encrypted, and allow the user to decide how best to play back their purchase. Encrypting the files will only aggravate customers and deter sales IMO.

[DrSidneyZweibel]

 

I really can't believe people discussing the legalities of an SD cart, again. Yes, it's legal gray area to run commercial ROMs or share homebrews without the permission of the author. But the legality of said usage of the end user does not make the flash cart device itself an illegal device, especially if it can be used for legal uses (ie development).

 

Yes, homebrewers (some) release their games for free. Others go through a public beta stage, and the final version that gets released on cart may be slightly or significantly different to the early public access betas, but I digress. Flash carts are an invaluable tool for homebrewers to test their games on real hardware so any measures to lock out homebrew games running on flash carts would also impede development of said games.

 

I am also strongly opposed to any type of DRM system that would lock homebrew software to a specific flash cart (ie, copying the encrypted ROM from one flashcart to another or attempting to run in an emulator results in an unplayable file that only works on the flash cart it was originally downloaded to). This is an important step for hardware and software developers entering into an agreement to establish a secure marketplace for modern consoles that predominantly use downloaded software purchased online. These companies go to great expense to produce a product and expect that their product will be protected from theft. However, enabling such a secure downloadable marketplace for a flashcart to be used on ancient pre-internet consoles, to protect the rights of homebrew developed games, will only cause more problems than it solves.

 

I don't consider it necessary at all, as physical cart sales mostly take care of the DRM aspect of things. The physical cart is a container for the game program, and most people with the technical ability to dump homebrew games, so far, have also respected the rights of the homebrewers who place their games onto the carts.

 

I'm fine with creating a digital marketplace where users who want to play the games but don't want to deal with carts can download unprotected ROMs, using honor system (and possibly store some embedded identification data in the free bits, stored to an undisclosed location of the ROM, in order to identify anyone who tries to disseminate downloaded ROMs to sharing sites), and play back said ROMs on their own device, be it a PC, Raspberry Pi, a flash cart for an original hardware console, etc.

 

TL;DR: If paid downloads are an option, I think they should not be encrypted, and allow the user to decide how best to play back their purchase. Encrypting the files will only aggravate customers and deter sales IMO.

this. All of this.

[Shawn]

Would a flash based solution without batteries not be possible?

 

That is exactly what NVRAM is.

[Glen's Retro Show]

I own Fred's a7800 flashcart lucky to get an early one.. and the mateos a7800.. I See nothing wrong with saint making one too..choices is a good thing.. no need for bad feeling from or on anyone.

 

Glen

Glen's Retro Show

Fred's unit

Mateo's unit

Edited June 5, 2017 by moonlight23

[Glen's Retro Show]

The A7800 deserves love.

Edited June 5, 2017 by moonlight23

[SIO2]

The A7800 deserves love.

Yes it does. 7800 has won my heart and I think it will forever remain my favorite of all Atari systems.

 

I have a few ways to load and test games now (DevOS, Eprom, Mateos Cart, Harmony) but, one cart that could do it all would be amazing.

[Greg2600]

I'd rather not start a thread pertaining to someone else's SD Cart development, so will throw these here.  @SainT has been tweeting quite a bit about this 7800 GameDrive for the last month.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SainT]

Yep, it's largely working. I'm just sorting out how to actually manufacture the thing due to chip shortages, but I think I have a suitable solution now. The nice feature with this cart will be built in support for dual pokey and YM2151 audio. Plus it looks like I will be able to do save states, as well.

 

So look on this as a luxury 7800 cart, as I know there are other alternatives.

[Greg2600]

The 7800 GD has now been shifted to a "Trion FPGA" to facilitate manufacturing availability of chipset.  Today's testing on YM2151 and Dual Pokey music!

 

 

 

[+sramirez2008]

34 minutes ago, Greg2600 said:

The 7800 GD has now been shifted to a "Trion FPGA" to facilitate manufacturing availability of chipset.  Today's testing on YM2151 and Dual Pokey music!

This is literally music to my ears.  Thanks for the update.?

[Greg2600]

2 hours ago, sramirez2008 said:

This is literally music to my ears.  Thanks for the update.?

SainT/RetroHQ was actually inquiring on games or anything that utilized dual pokey, but I myself really didn't find any.  I'm not sure if that's due to the availability of hardware or even emulation options for coders?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

9 minutes ago, Greg2600 said:

SainT/RetroHQ was actually inquiring on games or anything that utilized dual pokey, but I myself really didn't find any.  I'm not sure if that's due to the availability of hardware or even emulation options for coders?

I sent him my collection of the various dual pokey and YM demos from my DF cart this morning for him to test. Looks like they worked!

 

[SainT]

Very pleased with the last few days work! It went from spending two days getting ANYTHING to happen, to getting everything I had working before working again and both the ym and dual pokey audio. Very happy with that. And no need for any donor parts — ‘it just works’.

 

Still plenty left to do, but it’s looking quite a serious bit of kit now.

[Trebor]

On 1/27/2022 at 6:15 PM, SainT said:

Very pleased with the last few days work! It went from spending two days getting ANYTHING to happen, to getting everything I had working before working again and both the ym and dual pokey audio. Very happy with that. And no need for any donor parts — ‘it just works’.

 

Still plenty left to do, but it’s looking quite a serious bit of kit now.

@SainT Awesome job.. including the recent very early audio support for Rikki & Vikki Bupchip music!

 

[Trebor]

2K and 4K 2600 ROMs working as well now.  Great job, @SainT!

 

 

[SainT]

Audio support for BupChip is also fully working and for the 2600 mappers I now have implemented --

 

2K, 4K direct ROM

Atari F4, F6, F8 with optional superchip F4S, F6S, F8S

M-Network, E7

Commavid, CV

Parker Brothers, E0

Tigervision, 3F

 

And I'm currently working on DPC.

[+darryl1970]

2 hours ago, SainT said:

Audio support for BupChip is also fully working and for the 2600 mappers I now have implemented --

 

2K, 4K direct ROM

Atari F4, F6, F8 with optional superchip F4S, F6S, F8S

M-Network, E7

Commavid, CV

Parker Brothers, E0

Tigervision, 3F

 

And I'm currently working on DPC.

This is exciting news. Impressive how quickly this seems to be coming together..

[Guitari]

Hi Saint, is there a way to register my interest? I would like to be in receipt of the first run like I have been with your lynx, jag and ngpc solutions....but, I just no longer have the time to follow these threads. Thank you my friend. 

 

[SainT]

No, these will just be available through all the retailers I normally use. Have a look here for an idea -- https://www.retrohq.co.uk/products/atari-lynx-gamedrive-eeprom-flash-cartridge

 

It's kind-of coming to an end now in terms of compatibility, all of the 7800 games are now working and the vast majority of 2600 retail releases. There are still quite a few homebrew 2600 mappers to add, and I'm also thinking of including the RGB out as part of the GD cart rather than a separate board. It makes sense in many ways, so I'm going to try that as well and see if it's feasible.

 

So all in all, it's getting to more of a polishing stage now. Most development is done.

[Guitari]

Many thanks Saint. 

[+sramirez2008]

4 hours ago, SainT said:

I'm also thinking of including the RGB out as part of the GD cart rather than a separate board. It makes sense in many ways, so I'm going to try that as well and see if it's feasible.