How to tell if a CX-80 Trak-Ball has CX-22 internals?

[Skippy B. Coyote]

I was just wondering if anyone around here knew what to look for to determine whether or not a CX-80 Trak-Ball had CX-22 internals? Is there any way to tell from the outside of the box if you were to buy one brand new and still sealed? If not, what should you look for when opening up the Trak-Ball housing to determine whether you have CX-80 or CX-22 internals inside it?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Cambouis de l'Atari]

It seems that if the back of the box shows an atari 2600, it's cx-22, if it's an xl computer, it's a cx-80.

To be confirmed though

[alex_79]

All CX80 trackballs natively use the same encoding as CX22 unless they've been modified (by cutting a few traces and soldering some jumpers on the circuit board).
And there's no way to tell if a unit has been modified without testing it or looking at the board.

Instructions to mod atari trackballs (both the CX22 and the CX80) to be compatible with Atari ST or Amiga computers could be found in magazines, newsletters and mailing lists in the late '80s - early '90s.
Some units might as well been modified in bulk by some atari distributors as many games and programs compatible with ST mouse were available also on the 8-bit computer line (actually they were more than those that supported the original atari Trackball protocol).
When the trackballs were first documented in the stella-mailing-list in the late '90s, they happened to use one of the modified cx80. The mod in that unit was professionally done, and the joystick/trackball switch was still functional and this led to believe that all CX80 used the ST mouse protocol.
It later turned out that the majority of CX80 trackballs are not modified, and therefore compatible with the CX22 and not with the ST mouse.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

All CX80 trackballs natively use the same encoding as CX22 unless they've been modified (by cutting a few traces and soldering some jumpers on the circuit board).

And there's no way to tell if a unit has been modified without testing it or looking at the board.

Instructions to mod atari trackballs (both the CX22 and the CX80) to be compatible with Atari ST or Amiga computers could be found in magazines, newsletters and mailing lists in the late '80s - early '90s.

Some units might as well been modified in bulk by some atari distributors as many games and programs compatible with ST mouse were available also on the 8-bit computer line (actually they were more than those that supported the original atari Trackball protocol).

When the trackballs were first documented in the stella-mailing-list in the late '90s, they happened to use one of the modified cx80. The mod in that unit was professionally done, and the joystick/trackball switch was still functional and this led to believe that all CX80 used the ST mouse protocol.

It later turned out that the majority of CX80 trackballs are not modified, and therefore compatible with the CX22 and not with the ST mouse.

 

Thank you once again for the helpful information Alex! Since most of the TB hacks of Atari 2600 and 7800 games are made for trackballs with CX-22 internals it's good to know that if I pick up a CX-80 it will most likely work with them. I've never owned an Atari trackball up to this point, since the only one I've ever handled was a heavily used CX-22 I found in a local game store and I thought that it felt cheaply made and flimsy in comparison to the Wico Command Control trackball that I already owned. But the Wico just emulates a joystick and doesn't have true analog functionality, so I thought I'd pick up a CX-80 at some point and hope that it feels better built than the one CX-22 I've handled.

 

Anyway, thank you again for sharing some of your knowledge. It is much appreciated.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Since most of the TB hacks of Atari 2600 and 7800 games are made for trackballs with CX-22 internals...

That's not correct. Most (if not all) TB hacks are supporting CX-22, Atari mouse ("CX-80") and Amiga mouse.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

That's not correct. Most (if not all) TB hacks are supporting CX-22, Atari mouse ("CX-80") and Amiga mouse.

That's very good to know! I must have just not looked in the right places to find the non-CX-22 versions of the TB hacks. Sadly the one game that I've been particularly interested in getting a physical cart of the TB hack of is Centipede for the Atari 7800, and it looks as though the AtariAge store only offers a CX-22 version. Nevertheless, it's still comforting to know that if I do some searching around I'll be able to find versions of most of the other TB hacked games for either Atari trackball variation.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Jin

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Ah, OK then. I was only referring to Atari 2600 hacks.

[tep392]

All CX80 trackballs natively use the same encoding as CX22 unless they've been modified (by cutting a few traces and soldering some jumpers on the circuit board).

And there's no way to tell if a unit has been modified without testing it or looking at the board.

 

Instructions to mod atari trackballs (both the CX22 and the CX80) to be compatible with Atari ST or Amiga computers could be found in magazines, newsletters and mailing lists in the late '80s - early '90s.

Some units might as well been modified in bulk by some atari distributors as many games and programs compatible with ST mouse were available also on the 8-bit computer line (actually they were more than those that supported the original atari Trackball protocol).

When the trackballs were first documented in the stella-mailing-list in the late '90s, they happened to use one of the modified cx80. The mod in that unit was professionally done, and the joystick/trackball switch was still functional and this led to believe that all CX80 used the ST mouse protocol.

It later turned out that the majority of CX80 trackballs are not modified, and therefore compatible with the CX22 and not with the ST mouse.

 

 

We should be able to put this to rest then if some people with these incompatible CX80's could open up their units and check for the presence of the hack. One thing people need to be aware of when shopping for a CX22 is that the early version did not have a "true trackball" mode. It only emulated a joystick. Here's a note from the CX22 field service manual.

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

So how should we name the three (encoding) types?

1. CX22 or CX22/80 or ...?
2. Atari ST or Atari Mouse?
3. Amiga Mouse?

Edited October 27, 2016 by Thomas Jentzsch

[tep392]

1. CX

2. ST

3. AM

[alex_79]

We should be able to put this to rest then if some people with these incompatible CX80's could open up their units and check for the presence of the hack. One thing people need to be aware of when shopping for a CX22 is that the early version did not have a "true trackball" mode. It only emulated a joystick. Here's a note from the CX22 field service manual.

 

jstb.jpg

You can find pictures of two cx80 with the same mod applied here and here.

That mod preserves the joystick mode functionality, but I've also seen pictures of units (both cx80 and cx22) with different mods.

 

[alex_79]

 

So how should we name the three (encoding) types?

1. CX22 or CX22/80 or ...?
2. Atari ST or Atari Mouse?
3. Amiga Mouse?

 

I'd drop the model number completely:

1. Atari Trak-Ball

2. Atari Mouse

3. Amiga Mouse

[tep392]

I finally got my CX-80 out of storage and tested it with the cx-22 hack of Missile Command and it worked great in true trackball mode. It has very fine control yet I can really zip across the screen when I give the ball a good spin.

[Gaddzilla]

Anybody have ideas why a CX-80 would immediately move my cursor to the extreme right of the screen on a 7800, then not allow it to move left, only vertically? It does it every time I start a game…moves extreme right on its own then unresponsive. Thanks!

[alex_79]

Remember that none of the original games for the 2600 or 7800 support the track-ball native mode. There are a bunch of games for the 2600 (and only Centipede on the 7800, AFAIK) that have been hacked to support it and you can find those hacks for sale in the AtariAge store. (Roms for playing them in a flashcart can be found in the forums too).

 

The trak-ball has a switch on the back to set it in "joystick emulation" mode, which will allow it to work in any game that support joysticks, but you lose the feel and precision of a real trak-ball in that way.

Ensure that the switch is working and set it to "JS" position, unless you are playing one of those hacks.

 

 

[Gaddzilla]

4 hours ago, alex_79 said:

Remember that none of the original games for the 2600 or 7800 support the track-ball native mode. There are a bunch of games for the 2600 (and only Centipede on the 7800, AFAIK) that have been hacked to support it and you can find those hacks for sale in the AtariAge store. (Roms for playing them in a flashcart can be found in the forums too).

 

The trak-ball has a switch on the back to set it in "joystick emulation" mode, which will allow it to work in any game that support joysticks, but you lose the feel and precision of a real trak-ball in that way.

Ensure that the switch is working and set it to "JS" position, unless you are playing one of those hacks.

 

 

Got it so it’s not the Trak-Ball controller it’s an incompatible game then! Interesting it started to work on 7800 Centipede then quickly failed. I ordered a Centipede Trak-Ball game off Atari Age so hopefully it works on that. Thanks!

[alex_79]

Test the trak-ball with the switch in "JS" position. It emulates a joystick in that way and it should work with most 2600 and 7800 games. The experience won't be as good as when playing one of the hacks in real Trak-ball mode (switch in "TB" position), but at least you can verify if the controller is in working order or not.

Edited January 20, 2023 by alex_79