ijor Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 rev. E looks like a direct replacement for the std. 810 rom. Maybe it is interesting enough to integrate in Altirra as well? Didn't try, but probably Altirra let you use any ROM as long as it's the same size. Ijor, in post 25 of that thread you asked for a dump of a 810 rom rev. B, are you still looking? If so, do you have a partnr.? The rom on my sideboard says C011299B-03, so this might very well be a rev. B. The rom's prod. date is 1980 week 13. Yes, definitely interested in rev B. Can you dump it please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) ... a possible reason that Atari may have just ignored the drive as a 'favour'... Also Atari were not particularly bothered by piracy, Honestly, I doubt Atari, or anybody else for that matter, knew about it, about that Happy ROM being mostly Atari code. Even if Atari knew and they didn't care, and unless they gave formal explicit permission, consider the situation if it would become publicly known. remember Kevin asked him if he was worried about Atari and the drive and he was fully confident they were ok about it. But I guess that was about the fact that the Happy drive was being blamed as contributing to piracy. Not about the Happy drive itself (presumably) infringing copyrights. There's also a rumour out there that it was Atari itself that brought out Happy Computing when they produced a cart for the ST Really? The Happy Discovery Cartridge? Why Atari would be interested in it? Btw, I was trying to locate my email exchange with that expert lawyer, but that was too many years ago. I was sure you couldn't claim right on an unauthorized derivative work, but doing some quick research I might be wrong ... anyway, you should mention the original copyright owner, don't you? That is, for things being completely kosher, you would expect something like: "portions copyright Happy ... portions copyright Atari". Edited October 24, 2016 by ijor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Honestly, I doubt Atari, or anybody else for that matter, knew about it, about that Happy ROM being mostly Atari code. Even if Atari knew and they didn't care, and unless they gave formal explicit permission, consider the situation if it would become publicly known. But I guess that was about the fact that the Happy drive was being blamed as contributing to piracy. Not about the Happy drive itself (presumably) infringing copyrights. Really? The Happy Discovery Cartridge? Why Atari would be interested in it? Obviously none of us can vouch if Atari knew about the Happy code cloning but I'll bet one of the engineers had a good look at it just out of curiosity.. And yes, he talked to him about the piracy angle but I remember the certainty that was conveyed that Atari were not an issue, I'd presume if he had said he reused their code things could have been different. I don't even know if the practice of cloning code had any legal angles on it back then, obviously it does now with the percentage an item has to be different (or has this been superseded since?) to be exempt from any action to stop its use, obviously legal action can be tested. As for the Discovery, perhaps someone at Atari finally wanted to quell the piracy aspect as by then it was rife across so many platforms, as said its just a rumour that went around, all we do know is that Happy Computers just seemed to vanish not long after the cart was released, who knows why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebiguy Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 I have corrected the Happy 810 romdump, it now is a 4096 bytes (2732 eprom) file with data from 0000-0BFF. The rest from 0C00-0FFF is empty, therefore filled with FF's. It is attached to this post. Maybe a stupid question but why not dump the 2732 Eprom using an Eprom reader instead of using a program to dump it. Or maybe no Happy owner has an Eprom reader... It seems more logical to start with the filler bytes (1024 bytes) and end with the happy code (3072 bytes) as the end of the ROM contains the vectors (IRQ and RESET). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Didn't try, but probably Altirra let you use any ROM as long as it's the same size. Yes, definitely interested in rev B. Can you dump it please? It definitely looks like the rom in my 810 is version B. The A8 hardware faq states version C was released in november 1981, where my rom was manufacured in week 13 of 1981. I tried to read the rom with my TL866 programmer, but sadly only got FF's, just like it was empty. The 810 schematics show the rom is a 2316, although the top markings on the IC give no indication at all for this. For a read action a 2316 should be pin compatible to a 2716. I've read however, that for reading a 2316 its 3 CS lines require different logic levels than a 2716. That may well be the reason I just got nothing but FF's. Support for ancient eproms like 2716's and 2732's is quite limited on my programmer. Only 12,5V and 21V VPP types available in the device list, no 25V types. Predictably, test programming a Hitachi 2716 and a Mitsubishi 2732 both ended with a programming error. I may have to fall back on my All-07, which requires connecting to a LPT-port. I didn't have time tonight to check my drawings of the Happy wiring, That'll have to wait till next weekend. re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 It seems more logical to start with the filler bytes (1024 bytes) and end with the happy code (3072 bytes) as the end of the ROM contains the vectors (IRQ and RESET). Agreed, it's more likely that the ROM is aligned to $1000-1FFF and just has the $1000-13FF masked out by the address decoding. I'm going to stick with the 3K image until we can confirm the raw ROM layout either by schematic or direct dump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebiguy Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) At last, I received my Happy drive. This is a version B board with a 2732 happy810.rom The dump looks like the dump posted earlier but 2 points to mention: - you will find the filler bytes very interesting (from a legal point of view) - there are 2 bytes different from the previous dump in this thread. Yes, only 2 bytes ! Probably a fix but which version has been fixed (mine or the other) ??? Edited October 25, 2016 by ebiguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 EROM? ijor pointed out the oddity of those two bytes already. I haven't seen any code that uses them in the firmware itself, and as far as we know, the first 2K of ROM isn't visible to the CPU and wouldn't be taken into account by any checksum routine. It could be that the two images are from slightly different versions of the firmware and those two bytes were either debris from the assembly process or a checksum that did incorporate the first 2K of ROM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 EROM? ijor pointed out the oddity of those two bytes already. I haven't seen any code that uses them in the firmware itself, and as far as we know, the first 2K of ROM isn't visible to the CPU and wouldn't be taken into account by any checksum routine. It could be that the two images are from slightly different versions of the firmware and those two bytes were either debris from the assembly process or a checksum that did incorporate the first 2K of ROM. On one of JB's photo's you can see that address line A11 is connected from the eprom (pin 21) to the CPU (pin 16) through one of the added wires, so it looks like the 2732's 4K is made visible to the CPU. A 2316 or 2716 only has A0-A10 (11 in total), which provides a 2K address space (2^11 = 2048 = 2 K). How much of the 2732's 4K is actually available and at which location in the 6507's memory map is determined by the IC's on the perfboard. As the 6507 has no more then 8K address space (A0-A12), 4K RAM and the hardware registers only leave enough room for 3K rom. Chances are further development of the firmware meant it wouldn't fit in this limited 3K space any more, and HCI simply had no alternative then to move to bankswitching rom. re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Obviously none of us can vouch if Atari knew about the Happy code cloning but I'll bet one of the engineers had a good look at it just out of curiosity.. ... As for the Discovery, perhaps someone at Atari finally wanted to quell the piracy aspect as by then it was rife across so many platforms, as said its just a rumour that went around, all we do know is that Happy Computers just seemed to vanish not long after the cart was released, who knows why. You are right. Disregarding what we believe, we really have no way to know for sure exactly what happened at the time. I seem to remember a rumor that he went working for Sony to apply his copy protection know how on playstation CDs. No idea how much truth is in that. It is really a pity that Mr. Adams doesn't accept an interview with Kevin (at least that's what I understood)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 It definitely looks like the rom in my 810 is version B. I tried to read the rom with my TL866 programmer, but sadly only got FF's, just like it was empty. The 810 schematics show the rom is a 2316, although the top markings on the IC give no indication at all for this. Have you checked this thread? http://atariage.com/forums/topic/85478-810-rom-images/ - there are 2 bytes different from the previous dump in this thread. Yes, only 2 bytes ! Probably a fix but which version has been fixed (mine or the other) ??? Sounds like some kind of serial number to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Have you checked this thread? http://atariage.com/forums/topic/85478-810-rom-images/ I wasn't aware of this thread, but TBH hadn't yet done a search on the forum either. Good thing you remembered starting it (back in 2006, how time flies!) I will use Bryan's info about the CS lines to make an adapter socket. Good to know I'm not the only one struggling with reading the rom, my fruitless efforts made me start to wonder: am I overlooking something, is the rom defective, is the programmer defective, etc. As soon as I have the rom dumped, I will post my results in that thread. re-atari Edited October 25, 2016 by re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) BTW: I made a typo in post 80. The rom in my 810 was not manufactured in week 13 of 1981, but in week 13 of 1980. So it's most definitely a rev. B. re-atari Edited October 25, 2016 by re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I posted several photo's of my 810's internals in this thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/85478-810-rom-images/ As the drive is completely standard, that thread seemed more appropriate for posting to me than this one (dealing with Happy 810). re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) At last, I received my Happy drive. This is a version B board with a 2732 happy810.rom The dump looks like the dump posted earlier but 2 points to mention: - you will find the filler bytes very interesting (from a legal point of view) - there are 2 bytes different from the previous dump in this thread. Yes, only 2 bytes ! Probably a fix but which version has been fixed (mine or the other) ??? This dump confirms that the code indeed starts at 0400 instead of at 0000 (which you'd rather expect). TBH, I've never seen such a strange arrangement with filler bytes at the start of the rom, and actual code starting at a higher address, just to make it fit at the correct location in the 6507's memory map. The address decoding circuitry on the perfboard determines where the rom's address 0000 is placed in the memory map, so code could have started at 0000. But maybe this was all just another trick to prevent reverse engineering and/or scare competitors away from doing so. Of course, this didn't prevent anyone with electronics skills from making 100% identical copies of the circuitry and eprom. re-atari Edited October 28, 2016 by re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebiguy Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 But maybe this was all just another trick to prevent reverse engineering and/or scare competitors away from doing so. Of course, this didn't prevent anyone with electronics skills from making 100% identical copies of the circuitry and eprom. The content of the copyright is interesting from a legal point of view (I am not a lawyer). The copyright does not focus on the 1KB of code of Happy but covers the whole ROM as if the Atari code (the upper 2KB) was owned by the author. I mean there could be a sentence saying that part of the code is licensed from Atari or owned by Atari and modified with permission, etc. I am not saying that the author is not in a legal situation. It just makes me think that this is not the real legal agrement between the user, Happy and Atari but only a big warning to scare the curious guys who are willing to copy, dump or disassemble the code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 TBH, I've never seen such a strange arrangement with filler bytes at the start of the rom, and actual code starting at a higher address, just to make it fit at the correct location in the 6507's memory map. The address decoding circuitry on the perfboard determines where the rom's address 0000 is placed in the memory map, so code could have started at 0000. Given the 6507's address space, and the size of the ROM, this actually makes the electronic design simpler and less expensive. Makes total sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 At last, I received my Happy drive. This is a version B board with a 2732 happy810.rom The dump looks like the dump posted earlier but 2 points to mention: - you will find the filler bytes very interesting (from a legal point of view) - there are 2 bytes different from the previous dump in this thread. Yes, only 2 bytes ! Probably a fix but which version has been fixed (mine or the other) ??? Those two bytes are data located at $17fe. I don't see where they get used in the disassembly. Maybe junk? $90 $44 in your dump $9b $4b in re-atari's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Here's the front and back of the 810 Happy I just got from B&C. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Here's the front and back of the 810 Happy I just got from B&C. Back up that old EPROM! I got a NOS Super Archiver that suffered bit rot in the first month I had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Great advice. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Just finished my pics: Next, attempt ROM dumps... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 That rev D board is using a masked rom?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) Just finished my pics: Next, attempt ROM dumps... I hope the rev. B board was stored in darkness. The eprom window is not covered by a sticker, so if not, its contents may already have become corrupted from UV light present in daylight. If you have the means to do so, dump the eprom with a eprom programmer ASAP. Looks like a 2764 to me. Pin 26 is NC on a 2764, but here it's used as a route to get +5V to pin 1, 27 and 28. BTW: exciting wiring with the piggybacked IC on top. I'll try drawing a diagram of the wiring going to the eprom. To me, it looks like a 24-pin PAL. If its copy prohibit bit is set, no real chance of dumping the contents. IIRC, the mask rom was ordered to be manufactured with bank switching logic included on-chip, so instead of dumping it with a eprom programmer, Avery's program will probably be the only way to get a valid rom dump. re-atari Edited October 30, 2016 by re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I have been tracing the wiring and drawing a preliminary schematic diagram of the mod. Sadly not all wires were visible, so my drawings are as of yet still incomplete. Tonight I will give the wiring I did manage to draw a once over, and post it here later on. Maybe JB has a way to verify the schematic and add the missing wiring. How far did you get with this? If you send the results to me then I will go ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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