When joysticks got replaced with gamepads

[ave1]

Just put up my new article on the transition from joysticks to gamepads and what caused people to prefer the gamepads. My viewpoint is that gamers were looking for improvement in their hand comfort and the NES gamepad felt better than holding a joystick. Agree?

 

 

http://www.nerdko.com/2016/10/29/from-joystick-to-gamepad-the-untold-story-of-what-nintendo-did-for-video-game-controllers/

[Skippy B. Coyote]

Hyping up the NES gamepad over classic joystick controls? And trying to sell a new fangled Bluetooth thingamabobber in the same linked blog post? Oh boy...

 

[Gamemoose]

Any repetitious motion with one's hands brought potential issues. For the joystick "game claw" there was "Nintendo Thumb", which typically meant the thumb on the left hand would have an irritating indentation after playing a lot of NES games. That was one of the reasons the NES Max and the "360" controller (basically a touchpad for the D-Pad. I know it was on Genesis as I owned one. Blech.) were created.

 

It would have been a good idea to introduce the product you were promoting first, then did the history lesson and went back to the product in the conclusion. Might have been a good idea to mention the product up front here as well.

[+madman]

I never had any problems w/the NES controller and as a kid I probably spent more time on that system than any other. The INTV controller however is another story. I'm surprised that didn't cripple my fingers for life.

[madhatter667]

Agree, mostly. Some games still work well with arcade sticks. Usually fighters, and the occasional shooter. Most of the time, game pads tend to be more ergonomic. I have pretty much no issues with the NES, SNES pads, the Genny pads, Xbox revisions, or PlayStation revision pads.

 

Inty was a little odd. I didn't really like the Coleco sticks. I really like the Wico Atari sticks though.

[ave1]

I played Atari games all the time back in the early 80s and, I remember having a numb thumb after playing Solar Fox for long periods of time- and definitely achey hands. The NES controller never bothered me, but I really like the comfort of controllers from the Playstation and Xbox Era. I still enjoy using 80's joysticks to play the classics, though, due to my early life experience with them and the accuracy the right-handed stick can offer on certain types of games (compared to a D-pad).

The part at the end of the article which introduces the Retro Receiver was mainly placed there because the discovery (which will be announced in next week's article) will have much to do with increasing comfort in playing classic early 80s games- with modern gamepads... That's all I'm sayin for now on that subject.

 

The article's main point, though, was in helping people to realize that handheld joysticks are not providing as good a balance in pressure between right and left hands as a gamepad does... and that this is a significant factor in the area of controller comfort.

Edited October 30, 2016 by ave1

[enoofu]

Technical issues or high failure rates in the home versions of most Joysticks though out the 80's and early 90's probably added to the problem

 

Sad how silly Atati/Coleco/Intellivision telephone controllers gotten, as i was forced to play games 1/2 the time with the controller on the ground when I played with my 5200 and Coleco since the controllers ween't designed for kids hands

[Andromeda Stardust]

Who said joysticks were old fashioned? Get off my lawn!

 

On a more serious note, most vintage home console joysticks were terrible. Joysticks were meant to be anchored to a rigid arcade control panel, not a small base held in the palm of your other hand. Also economics dictated cheap construction to remain affordable. Sure table top solutions such as NES Advantage or modern fight sticks exist, but they are the exception to the rule. At any rate, an effective gamepad is much smaller and cheaper to produce than an effective joystick.

 

Also of note, joysticks use the wrist and arcade buttons use the forefingers, whereas gamepads predominantly use the thumbs. This results in completely different muscle groups being utilized for each control scheme. The wrist and forefingers are actually slightly faster to respond than the thumb. Don't believe me? Rapidly press a button with your forefinger and then try to do the same with your thumb. Your forefinger will win every time, doubly so if you use the twin tap on a full size arcade button.

 

But compactness, economy, and convenience win out, so gamepads remain. Then in the 3D era gamepads went full circle with analog thumbsticks. I wish there were a good analog joystick option so I could build a respectable arcade controller for the N64, but I digress.

[Schizophretard]

Just put up my new article on the transition from joysticks to gamepads and what caused people to prefer the gamepads. My viewpoint is that gamers were looking for improvement in their hand comfort and the NES gamepad felt better than holding a joystick. Agree?

 

 

http://www.nerdko.com/2016/10/29/from-joystick-to-gamepad-the-untold-story-of-what-nintendo-did-for-video-game-controllers/

 

No. I think that since the NES was pretty much the only game in town at the time that gamers used it because it came with it and since it came with it games were designed for it and since games were designed for it gamers preferred it. In other words, if everything else remained the same except Nintendo released the NES with the NES Advantage as the standard pack-in controller then today we would be talking about why people preferred the joystick over the D-pad. That is how it is for most consoles most of the time. Most of the time people prefer the controllers that come standard with a console or at least a third party controller that is similar to the standard controller.

[mr_me]

People have to use the controller (for better or worse) that they are given and they get use to it. The NES became the standard in the late 1980s, everyone was forced to follow. Prior to the NES people could use their right hand for direction, The Atari 2600 was right handed and others were symmetrical (Vectrex being the exception) including the first SEGA console. I know most Intellivision users operated the disc with their right thumb. The NES is noted for forcing people to use their left hand and that became the standard. Why did Ninentdo put the d-pad on the left? Well the d-pad was borrowed from the Donkey Kong Game & Watch handheld from 1982. It was already engineered and they were concerned with children stepping on joysticks. Its interesting that the Nintendo patent drawings had the d-pad on the right. I guess since it was for Donkey Kong they moved it to the left.

[Gentlegamer]

I remember using the dpad felt weird for about 30 mins when I first played NES.

 

Then it became preferred because it's much more precise for me.

[accousticguitar]

For me, movement is more easy, precise, and intuitive with a joystick so that is my preference.

[Flojomojo]

Kosmic, your NES Advantage is getting too much sun!

 

People who grew up with Atari and coin-op arcade games liked joysticks. I know several people personally who hated the transition to digital thumb pads, and thought NES/Genesis were not real video game machines. One of these people also resisted the transition to audio CDs because of his massive collection of cassettes. I noticed the glut of "run to the right and shoot/punch all the things" genre, but played it enough to appreciate it. Nearly all of the joystick-supporting Atari VCS games play great with the D-pad. As a kid, I controlled the Atari stick with my right thumb.

 

People who grew up with D-pads like them. Putting the controls on the left was an easy transition for me because I was a teenager. I like this format a lot, they are compact and intuitive for action games. They're precise for run-n-jump games, even though despite what the NES/SNES era would have us believe, these are not the only types of games in the world. I find it super awkward to play NES games with an arcade stick like the Advantage, even though emotionally, it reminds me of arcade controls.

 

People who grew up with touch screen controls like them a lot. My child actually prefers Sonic the Hedgehog on glass, even when offered a Genesis controller. I like how touch controls can be anything you want them to be, and I admire developers who make good, responsive controls that disappear when you're playing a game. The worst is when you're playing something that is trying to simulate a virtual D-pad. Unlike many people on here, I love mobile games and what they enable for this hobby.

 

I like it when there's choice, and the best tool for the job at hand. If someone programmed a new Star Wars X-Wing/TIE Fighter game for the Nintendo Switch, I'd be all over that. Analog joysticks for smooth motion like flight control, digital buttons for shooting and other quick actions, and touch screen buttons for context-sensitive actions like choosing targets or selecting missions or weapons. I was hoping that the Vita would give us a great space sim because it has all the same attributes, but this really disappointed.

 

Currently enjoying this (in soft launch, needs an NZ or NL account). It looks like Star Control, but is all touch-driven. Couldn't do this on a Genesis, at least not without making it into a real-time action combat game.

[Flojomojo]

People have to use the controller (for better or worse) that they are given and they get use to it. The NES became the standard in the late 1980s, everyone was forced to follow. Prior to the NES people could use their right hand for direction, The Atari 2600 was right handed and others were symmetrical (Vectrex being the exception) including the first SEGA console. I know most Intellivision users operated the disc with their right thumb. The NES is noted for forcing people to use their left hand and that became the standard. Why did Ninentdo put the d-pad on the left? Well the d-pad was borrowed from the Donkey Kong Game & Watch handheld from 1982. It was already engineered and they were concerned with children stepping on joysticks. Its interesting that the Nintendo patent drawings had the d-pad on the right. I guess since it was for Donkey Kong they moved it to the left.

I remember a "How To Win At The Video Games" book from the early 1980s that recommended that Donkey Kong arcade players cross their arms so they could work the stick with their (presumably dominant) right hand and use their left hand on the Jump button. It seems crazy today but it made sense to me at the time, and I remember trying to play that way. Of course the real problem was that I couldn't practice at home, like we can do nowadays. This kid needed a ColecoVision, badly.

[high voltage]

I guess the NES pad was modelled on the Vectrex pad, so they where around in the joystick days. BTW, people didn't prefer NES game pads, read the old magazine like EG, CGW, C&VG how reviewers complained about 'the awful controller'.

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by high voltage

[Flojomojo]

You can pick up the Vectrex controller and hold it in your hands like an NES controller, with your left thumb on the top of the left stick ... but I'm pretty certain you're meant to set it on a table and work it like an arcade dashboard, left fingers around the stick, right fingers on the four action buttons. That's what the box made it look like, anyway.

 

The trend of using coiled cables so they could neatly stow inside the system is definitely an early 1980s thing, too. I don't miss that, and I'm glad the Flashback reproductions didn't try to bring that back!

 

How you were supposed to use it

 

How you actually used it

 

Leg warmers are REQUIRED

[mr_me]

I guess the NES pad was modelled on the Vectrex pad, so they where around in the joystick days. BTW, people didn't prefer NES game pads, read the old magazine like EG, CGW, C&VG how reviewers complained about 'the awful controller'.

The nintendo donkey kong handheld predates the vectrex by several months in 1982. There were other flat controllers prior to that as well. Not sure what the reviewers were complaining about, i always disliked handheld joysticks. Maybe it was the left handed nes design.

Edited October 31, 2016 by mr_me

[jhd]

You can pick up the Vectrex controller and hold it in your hands like an NES controller, with your left thumb on the top of the left stick ... but I'm pretty certain you're meant to set it on a table and work it like an arcade dashboard, left fingers around the stick, right fingers on the four action buttons. That's what the box made it look like, anyway.

 

I only played a Vectrex once, back when they were new; a classmate brought one to school for some reason. If memory serves, that is indeed how we used the controller -- sitting on the table directly in front of the console itself.

 

 

Leg warmers are REQUIRED

 

Yes, indeed they are

[+5-11under]

I'm not good at using gamepads. My biggest complaint is the "+" shaped ones... how am I supposed to move on a 45 degree angle?

[Flojomojo]

I'm not good at using gamepads. My biggest complaint is the "+" shaped ones... how am I supposed to move on a 45 degree angle?

You kinda don't. See the instructions for NES Q*Bert or Marble Madness that ask you to rotate the controller 45° to hit the diagonals.

[mr_me]

Its exactly the same as a 2600 joystick. There are four switches up/down/left/right. You have to activate two switches to go diagonally. Qbert is different. My issue with gamepads is having to use my left hand. Around 1990 I found a righthanded PC gamepad; much preferred over a joystick (for 8-way games). I dont play enough videogames to get use to switching hands.

Edited October 31, 2016 by mr_me

[Nebulon]

Depends on the game really.

 

I'm used to both control systems and I switch between them regularly.

D-pads on a plus/rocker assembly are good for most stuff (although diagonals can be tricky as mentioned).

 

For the D-pads that have separate buttons (like on the Sony PSP), I find games like Pac-Man to be a real pain to play.

 

As for the Vectrex -- I also plant the controller on the counter in front of me and use it like an arcade control.

[spacecadet]

Preface: I'm not arguing with the original article; everyone's opinions are valid.

 

I just want to say that lots of systems had different types of controllers in the old days - I think people forget about how much variety there was pre-NES. The Intellivision already used "gamepads" back in 1979, for example. Coleco Vision used kind of a hybrid, as did the Vectrex. OTOH, the Bally Astrocade used a weird little nub joystick on a gun stock. Some computers, OTOH, used digital joysticks (like the Atari 2600 joystick) while others used analog joysticks with a full range of travel (like an Atari 5200 joystick, but generally built better and with centering).

 

The point is, manufacturers were always experimenting. Nobody was really satisfied; there was no standard type of controller. The Atari joystick was the most *common*, but that's just because the Atari 2600 was the most popular console for a while.

 

The Famicom was released with gamepads in 1983; certainly Nintendo copied a lot of stuff from American designs but this system was designed for Japan first. I don't think you can really say the gamepad was designed to replace the joystick there because while the joystick wasn't standard here, it wasn't even *common* there. The Atari 2600 (2800) just never even caught on. The original Famicom gamepad was actually a variation on the controls for Nintendo's Game & Watch games. Donkey Kong, the first of these with a d-pad, came out in 1982. That design was invented because it worked well on a little portable handheld game, and people got used to it. So it became the Famicom controller, then was adapted to the NES controller. And the rest is history.

 

As for what I prefer, I think I do prefer gamepads vs. joysticks, though I prefer analog thumbsticks to d-pads for most games other than fighting games. For fighting games, though, I really prefer a real fighting stick over any standard controller. Probably the best standard controller I've ever used is the Neo Geo Pocket Color thumb stick, which is clicky and has a really satisfying feel that's easy to use in a lot of different types of games. It seems like it could also be easily adapted to work both analog and digitally (the one in the NGPC was just digital IIRC). It had a bit of free travel.

[+5-11under]

Its exactly the same as a 2600 joystick. There are four switches up/down/left/right. You have to activate two switches to go diagonally.

 

But if I push between the up and the left on a "+" shaped gamepad, all I hit is air. Somehow one needs to mash both the up and the left at the same time, for instance by flattening a thumb to push both.

[Andromeda Stardust]

The Gamepad versus joystick debate really is about muscle memory. If you trained on a Dpad, you'll perform better on one. Ditto if you trained on a joystick. I don't believe that platformers are inherently better on a Dpad than on a proper joystick, ditto for playing SHMUPs on a Dpad.

 

When you get into quality arcade controls (not oversized Dpads with silicone membranes and a stick on top like the NES Advantage, et al), there is a pretty big variety even then, and many aftermarket customization options for them. Japanese style sticks tend to have shorter balltop handles, square gate, lighter spring, and a longer throw, whereas American style joysticks have longer battop handles, circular gate, and shorter throw. As for me, the Sanwa octagon gate is a sweet spot IMO, if a pricier option. The different feel may lend itself to different gameplay styles so it's not a one stick fits all genres or play styles thing. With the Dpad, you do have a "one pad fits all" thing going which is perfect for consumers who don't need endless options or customization. The NES Dpad is still one of the most revolutionary inventions and helped to distinguish the NES from all those precrash game consoles when it released in America. It worked well then, and still works well today.

 

Why Nintendo opted for a diamond instead of a Dpad on the Switch, I have no idea. Diamond can work as a Dpad substitute in a pinch I guess but you run the risk of hitting opposite directions and erratic behavior in games not designed for such input combos. I do like the split Dpads on the Sony Dual Shock controllers which they likely adopted on the original PS1 digital controller but like a Dpad, they are a single piece of plastic with a pivot at the base, not individual buttons.

 

Kosmic, your NES Advantage is getting too much sun!

It was a hand-me-down and already sun-faded when I got it...