Exotic carts: id please?

[ianoid]

You know if I don't know what it is, it's got to be weird.

 

Anyone guess what these are for? Acetronic? Love the 2600 cart shells.

 

Thanks!

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by ianoid

[0078265317]

Looks like they were made for 2600. Try it and see what happens.

[blankcrows]

Those PCB boards are much larger than 2600 size.

[carlsson]

So 25 pins single sided, or double sided for a total of 50 pins?

 

The Emerson Arcadia 2001 supposedly has a 2x15 pin connector.

The MPT-03, Palladium, Ormatu have 2x22 pin, different pinouts though.

 

The 1292 APVS systems including Acetronic have 2x16 connectors.

Not entirely sure about the VC-4000, but I think it has something similar or perhaps 2x22.

 

The APF MP-1000 has a 2x15 pin connector.

The Odyssey^2 has a 2x15 pin connector.

The RCA Studio II has a 1x22 pin connector.

The Channel F has a 22 pin connector, not sure if it is single or double sided.

The VIC-20 and C64 have 2x22 pin connectors too, for that matter (but different sizes).

The Sega SG-1000 has a 2x22 pin connector, otherwise it is kind of similar size.

(I kind of hoped to find a searchable index online for this kind of information, but failed to do so)

I'm omitting all the common systems like 2600, 5200, Colecovision, Intellivision etc. Which oddball systems did I overlook? I have a vague memory of having seen that before.

Edit: The MSX computers and Sega Master System do have 2x25 pin slots, but different sized cartridges.

Edited November 24, 2016 by carlsson

[ianoid]

They are double sided connectors. I know, this is weird. And there were no racing games for Arcadia that I know of.

 

General Instruments SD-010 carts had much fewer pins- and I've never heard of a maze game for that platform.

[Wickeycolumbus]

Strange looking carts. Maybe sg1000/master system?

[Blazing Lazers]

Any way to create a ROM dumper and then just compare the ROMs against other systems or try them in an emulator?

[ianoid]

Strange looking carts. Maybe sg1000/master system?

 

I only count 22 pins on SG-1000 carts. Or 44 double sided. Good thought though!

[ianoid]

Any way to create a ROM dumper and then just compare the ROMs against other systems or try them in an emulator?

 

Beyond my abilities and moreover my time constraints. And I don't want to tear them open and destroy the labels, although I guess if I was desperate I could consider heating a label off to open and see what's inside. I'd rather tap the knowledge base of the AtariAge.

[carlsson]

Yeah. I went through additional systems, not considering whether they're single or double sided:

 

PC-50x (SD-050/070/090) - 18 pins

Tomy Tutor - 18 pins

Bally/Astrocade - 26 pins

 

I checked all other obscure video games and home computers from 1976 - 1984 on Old-Computers.com, including NEC PC-6001/6601, but couldn't spot anyone that would match.

 

Btw, I suppose the back side is blank and no other markings at all?

 

Edit: The Philips VG-5000 computer has a 2x25 pin connector, but I don't know if it had any game cartridges.

Edited November 24, 2016 by carlsson

[ianoid]

Correct, the back of the carts are blank. These are still a mystery.

[+frankodragon]

The only 25 pin carts I could think of are for the Sega Master System.

[carlsson]

It doesn't match either of these ones:

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/carts.htm

[carlsson]

A thread on Racketboy in 2009 pointed towards some Australian clone of the Arcadia 2001 or compatible system. However the cartridge connector never was posted, so it can't be certain those cartridges are related to yours. Also it seems that Tunix Home Arcade = Emerson Arcadia 2001 and UVI Computer Game = Grandstand.

http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=41976

 

Sheen Home Video Centre 2001 has a 2x22 cartridge port, probably same as MPT-03.

 

While Pong Picture Page is down for maintenance (hopefully it will be back), I found this site and browsed every console it knows, without finding additional matches:

http://www.videogameconsolelibrary.com/main-list-name.htm

Edited November 24, 2016 by carlsson

[+madman]

The only 25 pin carts I could think of are for the Sega Master System.

Yep, these are likely master system games. Cat & Rat is probably Tom & Jerry. I'm guessing Combat is Tank Batallion which was an unlicensed game released in South Korea. Crazy Run may be Buggy Race, but who knows on the last two considering these are bootlegs.

[ianoid]

The board width is about 67mm. I wonder if they are SG-1000 games. Would be a weird pirate case etc.

 

Here is a similar thread:

 

http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=41976&start=10

 

With a Cat & Rat cart from an Arcadia clone, supposedly.

Edited November 25, 2016 by ianoid

[+stupus]

From the art and fonts they strike me as something bit corp would make or quelle or some Taiwanese pirate.

All the kniwn arcadia systems use 15 or 22 pins....but the game names strike me as arcadia games.

There are 3 racing games for the arcadia too.

Bit Corp did do some pirate sega stuff, could these be bit corp sega or msx games?

 

Or could it be yet a 6th family of Arcadia games that is undocumented?

Certainly possible, but strange if they use a new number of pins.

I have documented 42 arcadia variants currently, so it would never surprise me to find another....

Neat stuff ian!

[Seob]

Can it be that they are from a nes clone maybe. Those Chinese clones use all kinds of cartridge shapes.

[carlsson]

What speaks against the Master System in either US or European version (50 pins) is that on an original cartridge the PCB is not centered in the middle, but aligned towards the top. These cartridges would not be as wide as a real Sega cart is, but I suppose one can insert a bare PCB into the slot and it will work anyway so shell size shouldn't matter awfully much unless it is too thick of course.

 

When it comes to MSX, there were multiple manufacturers and even Korean manufacturers like Zemina seemed to source proper cartridge shells, so it sounds odd that someone would use a different shape. I know that EA used a different shape for the Genesis/Mega Drive cartridges but that was due to some kind of issue with Sega rather than supply shortage.

 

Famicom clones likely would want to be 2x30 = 60 pins instead of 2x25 = 50 pins, and NES clones 2x36 = 72 pins.

 

It is hard to find proper measurements of cartridge shells and PCBs. There is one thread on the Australian Overclockers forum that I know of, which is a start but rather partial. I wonder if putting up a page on Wikipedia (or perhaps a smaller gaming wiki) specifically about cartridge dimensions, number of pins etc would survive, if it is covered by enough links and sources.

 

Regarding Bit Corp, it seems to me they were not shy to put their logo on the cartridges. Quelle did not, and the labels on these look like a mix of both.

Edited November 25, 2016 by carlsson

[+stupus]

Well I figured it could be possible that bit could have even made their own sega clone console that played their own sega games in atari shells.

 

They did some strange stuff....they made an atari 2600 clone in a famicom style shell. And of course the dina that has 2 slots for different systems they pirated.

 

There is also the theory they are behind nearly all the 2600 clones and that they distributed thru all the companies like quelle, cce, funvision, dymax, etc.

 

Maybe they could have even done an arcadia clone....?

[ianoid]

There is also the theory they are behind nearly all the 2600 clones and that they distributed thru all the companies like quelle, cce, funvision, dymax, etc.

 

 

 

I'd guess that Brazilian pirates from Taiwan came after the original wave of video games hit that country. I think it's unlikely that any early makes like CCE were made in Taiwan, because of the law designed to promote Brazilian industry that prohibited importing stuff like video games for commercial sale. I suspect that at least the cases and labels were made in Brazil.

 

But that is beside the point, I'm still confused as to what these carts are.

[carlsson]

Do you have any real SMS games to compare the two side by side?

[alex_79]

Interesting!

The label style, which seems late '70s - early '80s to me, and the titles of the three games (and those of the carts in the linked racketboy.com forum, assuming they're for the same console - the plastic of the "donley kong" cart has a different texture and it's probably a 2600 version) make me propend for an undocumented Arcadia 2001 clone using a different connector and pinout.

A rom dump could solve the mistery, but since the pinout is unknown, the only way to do it is to remove the label and open the cart. Then the board could be traced and an adapter built allowing to dump the game without desoldering the rom chip.

[alex_79]

 

The 1292 APVS systems including Acetronic have 2x16 connectors.

Not entirely sure about the VC-4000, but I think it has something similar or perhaps 2x22.

 

The VC-4000 uses a 1x31 pins connector, 2.54mm (0.1") pitch.

[carlsson]

Yes, I checked a VC-4000 cartridge myself last Friday.

 

I also took the note that the circuit board is about 67 mm and compared to some cartridges in my collection. That is about the same width as the connector on the MSX, which is 2x25 pins, although the cartridges themselves usually are wider. It is about 1 cm more narrow than a Famicom, about 0.5 cm more narrow than the SG-1000 and about 1 cm wider than the C64. I don't have any SMS to compare with, but since that one also is 2x25 pins like the MSX, I suppose the connector has the same physical width.

 

So our best bet so far would be a Taiwanese or Brazilian clone of either the Master System or, which I find is less likely given everyone else used standard shells, the MSX computers. Or that 43rd Arcadia 2001 clone not yet documented...