walter_J64bit Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Has anyone got Diamond GOS 3.0 dumped? I've would like to update my Diamond cart to 3.0. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 This was discussed with Alan Reed in the conversation a year or two ago. Apparently it's a lost version. I still have the 3.0 manual in my possession, but unfortunately I lost the cartridge in a move about 20 years ago. 3.0 was only ever released as an upgrade to those who owned the 2.0 cartridge. I sent directly to Alan for the chip back in the early 90's and replaced the 2.0 chip with it in my cartridge. IIRC, Alan said there were only about a half-dozen people (including me) who ever upgraded to 3.0. So chances of finding it will be a near miracle. Especially since Alan doesn't have it any longer. It's a real shame too, because it was a much better version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 actually it would only require that every diamond gos cart be dumped and then a compare of the carts be done... there is simply no way to externally know what version you have based on cart or prom, but looking at the dumps of those would yield the results... To date, nobody has decided to do this..... so all you zombies show your faces! dump those carts! Chances are the last version is in the pool of remaining cartridges... the best of the best keep showing up because like a fine automobile... it always gets scooped up and does not go to the crusher! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) Based on the comments here (and below in the same thread) by Alan Reeve regarding versioning, I believe there is no "3.0" version, labeled as such. I have three distinct ROM versions from 1988, 1989, and another one from 1989. I believe the second 1989 version (labeled 2.0) to be the final version and the one that somehow came to be considered 3.0 in the Atari communities. I feel this may have come about simply because there were 3 distinct ROM versions. 1988 ROM 1989 ROM 1989 2.0 ROM Diamond GOS (1988).rom Diamond GOS (1989).rom Diamond GOS 2 (1989).rom Edited December 9, 2016 by MrFish 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 Ok, from what I'm reading here, I've got the final version than. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Kline Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 @MrFish I have the 1988 version here. Would you mind me asking what would be involved in updating it to 2.0, programming-wise? Would I be able to use Dropcheck's eprom burner, or will I need to use the TL866? Thank you, in advance! —Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I have the 1988 version here. Would you mind me asking what would be involved in updating it to 2.0, programming-wise? Would I be able to use Dropcheck's eprom burner, or will I need to use the TL866? According to Alan himself: "It's just a 27512 PROM or EPROM...", so as long as your burner can handle that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) Remember... just because the window says 2.0 it does not mean it is the final version.... the window was never updated with the revision numbers... the only way to know is to compare the dumps.... maybe someone will find an easy way to do it and/or make a diamond app to test for the actual revision via a look at some spot in the code/memory itself... This is why it's been such a PITA...... There is was and never has been a way to see outwardly if you had the last revision... You had to request the prom! You pulled the cart apart and put the prom in! It still said 2.0 1989 in the screen but it was really 3! 3 simply worked the best and was not as buggy! I really wished the rev window said 2.3 or 3.0 but it didn't....maybe we should have changed it ourselves but it might have broken version checks or might not have.... Mr. Reeve himself stated it was an after thought or possibly lazybones or some other reason. Edited December 9, 2016 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) If you read through the document attached below, with old threads/posts and articles from the 80's and 90's, Alan himself posted what he calls "the version 3.0 ROM" on a newsgroup, and he named the file "diamond2.rom". I have found "diamond2.rom" files all over the net, and they're all the same (using file-compare). If he posted it on a public newsgroup, I can hardly see how this would miraculously not be present in all the public archives that now exist. In fact, I feel that it proliferates in them due to the fact that it was the final ROM. I'll gladly be proven wrong, but Alan's own words seem to confirm this. Diamond GOS, A. Reeve - Articles.txt Edited December 9, 2016 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) No, EPROM in this cart and I've tried to open three windows and that's a no go! LOL Edited December 9, 2016 by walter_J64bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) I was asked for a cleaner picture this the best I can do. I had to used a scanner, you can see the chip now. Edited December 10, 2016 by walter_J64bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 I just dumped mine and it's an exact match for the Diamond GOS 2 (1989).rom and looks like the pics Walter posted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 I may have lost my 3.0 cartridge a long time ago, but I used it often at one time and I know for a fact that if you looked in the version window on the diamond desktop that it did in fact say "3.0" and had a copyright of 1991. Same as the new manual it came with that included 3.0 versions of Diamond Paint and Write too. Any talk of 3.0 really just being 2.0 in complete and total bunk. Period.Like I said, I also got a manual with it. here is a snap shot below. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Hey Gunstar... yes, I'd seen your manual before (and was in fact looking it over again earlier yesterday), but that's the first time I've heard you state emphatically that you recall seeing "3.0 and 1991" on the info dialogue. We also have this (which I already knew about before) from the text file that I posted above, which is at the bottom and pulled from the Atari FAQ: o Diamond GOS version 1 (1988) - Diamond DeskTop 1.0 (disk) DUP.SYS replacement o Diamond GOS version 2 (1989) package: - Diamond DeskTop 2.0 (cartridge) + Utility Diskette - Diamond Programmer's Kit (Programmer's Manual) - Diamond Paint (disk) o Diamond GOS version 3 (1991) package: - Diamond DeskTop 3.0 (cartridge) + utility diskette - Diamond Paint (disk) - Diamond Write (disk) Personally, I was starting to doubt and believe that these references to 1991 were just coming from a rerelease, with a new manual and maybe a few changes to Paint and/or Write. Then I remembered we have some source code that was converted to ATR's from Reeve's collection of disks and posted by bob1200xl back in 2014. So I decided to have a look after seeing your last comment, and lo and behold this is what popped up in the Objects.m65 file: $ 1530 DTITLE1 1540 .BYTE 254,3,255,2,"Diamond",0 1550 DTITLE2 .BYTE "GOS/DeskTop 3.0",0 1560 DTITLE3 .BYTE 252,1,"(C) Copyright 1991",0 1570 DTITLE31 .BYTE "REEVEsoft",0 1580 DTITLE4 .BYTE "by Alan Reeve",0 $ There's also the "1988, 1991" -- as shown on your manual -- in the Desktop.m65 file. Also, a defining piece of information is that these both say "REEVEsoft" rather than "Reeve Software". As I said, I'd be gladly proven wrong, so I'll be a son-of-a... we've got the genuine article right under our noses!! Question is, why hasn't anybody looked there before, since 2014?? I assumed some code guru would have already looked there and thus didn't even bother until now. No matter, now we just need someone interested enough to dig in and compile this thing and we've got what we've been looking for all these years. Edited December 10, 2016 by MrFish 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Here's some of the surrounding code that makes it clear it's coming from the "Info" dialogue: $ 1230 INFOOBJ 1240 .BYTE 1 ;TEXT 1250 .WORD DTITLE1,46,32 1260 .BYTE 8 1270 .BYTE 1 ;TEXT 1280 .WORD DTITLE2,40,40 1290 .BYTE 8 1300 .BYTE 1 ;TEXT 1310 .WORD DTITLE3,32,60 1320 .BYTE 8 1330 .BYTE 1 1340 .WORD DTITLE31,64,68 1350 .BYTE 8 1360 .BYTE 1 ;TEXT 1370 .WORD DTITLE4,56,84 1380 .BYTE 8 1390 .BYTE 0 ;IMAGE 1400 .WORD BIGBUTTON 1410 .BYTE 9,89,8,14 1420 .BYTE 1 ;TEXT 1430 .WORD OK,96,100 1440 .BYTE 8 1450 .BYTE 0 1460 .WORD DIAMONDICON 1470 .BYTE 1,12,4,32 1480 .BYTE 0 1490 .WORD DIAMONDICON 1500 .BYTE 21,12,4,32 1510 .BYTE 255 1520 ; 1530 DTITLE1 1540 .BYTE 254,3,255,2,"Diamond",0 1550 DTITLE2 .BYTE "GOS/DeskTop 3.0",0 1560 DTITLE3 .BYTE 252,1,"(C) Copyright 1991",0 1570 DTITLE31 .BYTE "REEVEsoft",0 1580 DTITLE4 .BYTE "by Alan Reeve",0 $ And here's the other text, which is just a comment at the top of the "Desktop.m65" file: $ 1000 ;DIAMOND DeskTop 1010 ;(C) Copyright 1988,1991 1020 ;REEVEsoft Edited December 10, 2016 by MrFish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 Gunstar, do you have the disk for Diamond Paint and Diamond Write that came with Diamond 3.0? They should work with Diamond 2.0 I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Gunstar, do you have the disk for Diamond Paint and Diamond Write that came with Diamond 3.0? They should work with Diamond 2.0 I would think. Unfortunately at the time I lost my personally updated Diamond cartridge I had moved from Wisconsin to California and I had a box with all my original software in it, of all medias, and it was lost or left behind. Some manuals were in another box, so that's all I have left. Back in '91 I received a notice from Alan Reeve, being a 2.0 cartridge system owner, of the new 3.0 that was only being distributed via mail, to current customers. You could either send the cartridge to Alan to swap chips or just send him the chip, as I did. I received the 3.0 chip and new versions of the software with the manual shown, which includes instructions for Paint and Write in it. And yes, it did say 3.0 © 1991 in the desktop info window. And it worked faster and better than my 2.0, especially noticeable in a significant speed increase with Diamond Write cursor, though still not fast enough for me to type at full speed. But a lot less bugs anyway all around. I didn't look into Alan's ATR's because I had lost my cartridge, and was only ever interested in the cartridge version of Diamond, so I haven't used the system since. But now that I have a MyIDE II, maybe I'll look into the cartridge rom image to use with it. It's good that we now have proof from Mr. Fish now. I'd didn't emphatically state mine said 3.0 in the info window before because I didn't think it was necessary. I thought my word on owning it and proof of a new manual was enough for proof of it's existence. Edited December 10, 2016 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) I'm actually very excited that we have 3.0 now, as honestly I was never too happy with 2.0 and I only upgraded to 3.0 on the promises from Alan that it was a very much improved bit of kit. Now that I have a virtual Hard drive it will be much more fun to use. I'd like to see some of the great desktop software like Excellent Software's goods modified by someone in our community (FJC?) to work under Diamond. Or even ReeveSoft's own desktop publisher that was slated for a Diamond upgrade but never got it. I don't suppose there's something of ReeveSoft's desktop publisher in those ATR's are there Mr. Fish? I always get Reevesoft, EXcellent and Springboard's Newsroom programs mixed up on which is called what, etc. As I recall ( I never used any of them) from pictures, all those word processor, Typesetter and other desktop publishing apps all had their own GOS/Windows/Icon driven environments by themselves didn't they? Also Music Construction Set and Music Studio. But can anyone tell me what input devices they allowed? Where they all just joystick driven or could some use touch tablets, trackballs(in trackball mode) or mice as an alternative? I know I can investigate myself too. My idea is if I could use a common input device (besides the joystick) across all of these apps, so even though they don't actually work through Diamond, the control transition could be seamless. Like a touch tablet. As I recall, Diamond allowed quite a few different device options. Of course back then, desktops under mouse control were all the rage, so I always used an ST mouse with Diamond, but I actually think, looking back, that the touch tablet is a much better technology than the mouse, just like touch-screens everywhere today. Edited December 10, 2016 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/219360-sold-diamond-gos-30-cart/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Gunstar, do you have the disk for Diamond Paint and Diamond Write that came with Diamond 3.0? They should work with Diamond 2.0 I would think. We already have the disk with the new Write and Paint; they're also on the disks that Bob converted. They don't work (fully) with the 2.0 ROM though, as they're most likely making calls to the 3.0 OS which either have no vector or have changed vectors from the 2.0 OS. In fact, the "Desktop.app" is already compiled for the 3.0 OS, and of course it completely fails with the old 2.0 OS, as expected. There is also a large "Autorun.sys" file on the OS source disk, which may be (not sure) compiled from the sources. I can get the Info screens to come up though, and some of the functionality does work under the 2.0 OS. Edited December 10, 2016 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Also, in case nobody had noticed it either, there's a working version of News Station on the recovered disks, which I'd just found out about yesterday. This seems to work fine under the 2.0 OS, as much as I've tested it so far: Edited December 10, 2016 by MrFish 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Also, in case nobody had noticed it either, there's a working version of News Station on the recovered disks, which I'd just found out about yesterday. This seems to work fine under the 2.0 OS, as much as I've tested it so far: News Station.png That would conclude the trio of apps always promised by Alan since Diamond 2.0 at least. We'll have to see how it works though. Diamond write was a bit too slow, but I always loved Diamond Paint. Hopefully Diamond News Station works well. Diamond Paint has clipboard features to that are supposed to be compatible with News Station as well as Diamond Write was to be compatible with News Station too. But I would start my art with Diamond Paint, and then save it and move it over to Rambrandt to use the extra colors with DLI's or even change the picture to another resolution, like GTIA.modes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triads Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 This is good stuff... I've seen the front page of the manual scanned, was the whole manual ever scanned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Yippee! This has got to be the final version! Maybe it will work as the top cart in a super sparta stack with rom placed in an ultimate cart at the top! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 In case anyone missed it, the post that Mr.Fish was referring to that Bob1200XL's upload of the Diamond GOS 3.0 is here... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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