is it possible to put a playfield in popeye together with Hackomatic 3?

[xybot67]

I appreciate what you are trying to do with level 2 alt 3, but it still seems a little busy to me. Maybe its just the small fbp screen.

[KevinMos3]

Some more edits to Level 2 stairs and Level 3.

 

Popeye (FBP) Alt Lvl2 alt3.bin

 

 

Here's an alternate that matches the style of level 2, but I'm not sure I like it. I think the 1st one is more clean, but I'd like to get others' opinions.

For Level 2, the buildings have really grown on me, but once I'm done with any edits, I can make 2 versions: one with them and one without.

Edited January 24, 2017 by KevinMos3

[ILA2600]

WOW Kevin I love what you have done with this game, I like the more cleaner ones, I am not familiar with Bankswitching, could some one explain it to me? I love how it's looking more and more like the original arcade game, But with atari's programing, we are not able to have multiple colors for the playfield, But I am good with the single color levels! :-)

Edited January 25, 2017 by ILA2600

[xybot67]

This is the first time I've ever played Popeye!

Its neat - I just can't stop getting shot by the horizontal bullets across the screen. I can avoid Bluto by going up and down the stairs, but haven't caught enough hearts to go on to the next level.

You can easily punch the "horizontal bullets", just time it right.

[Arenafoot]

You can easily punch the "horizontal bullets", just time it right.

yeah now i have it down pat - working on level 2 - thanks!

[NostAlgae37]

Some more edits to Level 2 stairs and Level 3.

 

Popeye (FBP) Alt Lvl2 alt3.bin_12.png Popeye (FBP) Alt Lvl2 alt3.bin_9.png

Popeye (FBP) Alt Lvl2 alt3.bin

 

 

Here's an alternate that matches the style of level 2, but I'm not sure I like it. I think the 1st one is more clean, but I'd like to get others' opinions.

For Level 2, the buildings have really grown on me, but once I'm done with any edits, I can make 2 versions: one with them and one without.

Popeye (FBP) Alt Lvl2 alt5.bin_2.png

 

Kevin, I just wanted to weigh in on the amazing work that you are doing to make the 2600 port of Popeye more visually appealing. I have always been very fond of both the original arcade game and also the Atari 2600 conversion (despite its many flaws). Here are my comments / observations / suggestions on the changes that you have already made to the game and what might or might not be possible given the inherent constraints of the VCS hardware:

 

1) The green color for Bluto is not working for me. It's a bit sickly looking, and it's not really a color that I associate with the character. May I suggest a dark blue (possibly navy) instead? Not only is it a color already associated with sailors, but the phonic "blue" is also the first syllable of how the character's name is pronounced (as in "Blue-Toe").

 

2) The work that you have done revamping the background of Level 2 is phenomenal, that alone was enough to make me want to download this hack and play it on my Flashback Portable. The stereoscopic effect that you somehow managed to achieve with the apartment buildings is stunning and really works well. Unfortunately, the musical notes that Olive Oyl drops on this stage tend to blend into the new background and are often nearly invisible while you are trying to track and catch them (I find them continually eluding me and ending up in the water below, costing me lives unnecessarily). Is it possible to change the color of the musical notes to something different so that they will stand out from the background better and be more easily visible? Or if this is not possible, maybe change the color used for the buildings to something that will offset the notes more?

 

3) The alternate version of Level 3 that you posted is a mixed bag for me. I do prefer how the 2 sets of stairs on the bottom level have that same stereoscopic effect that really makes them stand out from the background so that you notice that they are there. Is it possible to reproduce that somehow on the "non-busy" version of the background by using the fill color where there is currently black and "negative space" to suggest the shape of the stairs?

 

4) This last one might sound strange, but the Popeye sprite has lost a bit of the "bounce" in his step that seemed to be more present on the much cruder original version. I realize that the sprite edits that you are using for this hack are somebody else's work and that he has substantially increased the level of detail in the characters, but Popeye's gait seems to have stiffened a bit in the process. One of the things that I enjoyed most about the animation in the original arcade game was the way that Popeye looked as he climbed the stairs in a sort of bouncy, jaunty way. I know that this might be hard to duplicate given the constraints of the VCS hardware (after all, there was a whole additional set of rear-view frames used for this animation in the original arcade game), but I think that it's still worth achieving somehow because it added a great deal to the personality of the character and enhanced the joy of the gameplay experience.

 

Thanks so much for your work on this hack and also for taking the time to read my somewhat verbose comments.

[+darryl1970]

Some more edits to Level 2 stairs and Level 3.

 

Popeye (FBP) Alt Lvl2 alt3.bin_12.png Popeye (FBP) Alt Lvl2 alt3.bin_9.png

Popeye (FBP) Alt Lvl2 alt3.bin

 

 

Here's an alternate that matches the style of level 2, but I'm not sure I like it. I think the 1st one is more clean, but I'd like to get others' opinions.

For Level 2, the buildings have really grown on me, but once I'm done with any edits, I can make 2 versions: one with them and one without.

Popeye (FBP) Alt Lvl2 alt5.bin_2.png

Kevin, I really like the levels, but not a fan of Popeye at all. He is missing the trademark lip curl. I don't think either body is better or worse, but I would definitely back go back to the head I had in there. Popeye is supposed to have a bulging chin and a curl to his lip. With that and the other improvements, I think it's a 2600 winner.

[ILA2600]

Hey Kevin could you do me a small favor, could you post a version of your version with the gap in level 1 for the FBP! I would really appreciate it if you could!

Edited February 4, 2017 by ILA2600

[KevinMos3]

Updates:

Popeye (FBP) Alt Popeye.bin

 

I should probably start giving these ROMs proper names, but for now... meh.

 

 

 

Kevin, I just wanted to weigh in on the amazing work that you are doing to make the 2600 port of Popeye more visually appealing...

1) The green color for Bluto is not working for me. It's a bit sickly looking, and it's not really a color that I associate with the character. May I suggest a dark blue (possibly navy) instead? Not only is it a color already associated with sailors, but the phonic "blue" is also the first syllable of how the character's name is pronounced (as in "Blue-Toe").

 

2) ...Unfortunately, the musical notes that Olive Oyl drops on this stage tend to blend into the new background and are often nearly invisible while you are trying to track and catch them (I find them continually eluding me and ending up in the water below, costing me lives unnecessarily).

 

4) This last one might sound strange, but the Popeye sprite has lost a bit of the "bounce" in his step that seemed to be more present on the much cruder original version.

 

1) I went back to the original green because of the shared color with the spinach. However, after some more thought, the bottles also share the color and don't need to be green, so I changed it back to purple to match the 1st level of the arcade (in the arcade, Bluto's color progression is purple, orange, red)

 

2) The notes were color 34. Against a background of black and F4, it could be hard to see. I darkened the background to F2 and lightened the hearts/notes/letters to 46. This should make it a little easier to see. However, once we get more playfield colors and I can make level 2 dark blue, I don't think that will be an issue.

 

3) I've not been happy with either the Popeye or Olive Oil sprites. I finally got around to redoing them and I'm much more satisfied. You might like that he has a bit more bounce now.

 

 

Kevin, I really like the levels, but not a fan of Popeye at all. He is missing the trademark lip curl. I don't think either body is better or worse, but I would definitely back go back to the head I had in there. Popeye is supposed to have a bulging chin and a curl to his lip. With that and the other improvements, I think it's a 2600 winner.

 

I haven't liked the Popeye sprites either and had just been messing around with them until I could come up with something I liked. I finally took a few minutes and I "think" I'm done. I kept his head slightly smaller because 8 pixels wide just seemed way too big of a head to me. When I look at the larger head, I don't see the lip curl you speak of. It's hard to portray what we intend with such limited pixels, so often others won't see what we're trying to get across anyway. I'm fairly satisfied now with this version. Of course, you can change it to suit your tastes. I'm not done with the overall hack, but I think I'm done with the sprites. I really liked your Bluto, btw, so I didn't make any changes there.

 

 

Hey Kevin could you do me a small favor, could you post a version of your version with the gap in level 1 for the FBP! I would really appreciate it if you could!

 

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Edited February 5, 2017 by KevinMos3

[NostAlgae37]

 

1) I went back to the original green because of the shared color with the spinach. However, after some more thought, the bottles also share the color and don't need to be green, so I changed it back to purple to match the 1st level of the arcade (in the arcade, Bluto's color progression is purple, orange, red)

 

2) The notes were color 34. Against a background of black and F4, it could be hard to see. I darkened the background to F2 and lightened the hearts/notes/letters to 46. This should make it a little easier to see. However, once we get more playfield colors and I can make level 2 dark blue, I don't think that will be an issue.

 

3) I've not been happy with either the Popeye or Olive Oil sprites. I finally got around to redoing them and I'm much more satisfied. You might like that he has a bit more bounce now.

 

 

Thanks Kevin, I like some of the improvements that you made. Let me take these in order:

 

1) I wasn't aware that Bluto and the spinach needed to share the same color (no wonder you made him green). I like the new purple color for Bluto better (even though it now makes the spinach color seem a bit strange), but I'm wondering if he would look better the same color as the water. I have made a mockup using the blue that you can see below.

 

2) The notes are definitely a bit easier to see against the background now, thanks. I hope that you will eventually be able to make the buildings blue like you planned, because I think that will look awesome and provide an even better contrast with the notes.

 

3) The new Olive Oyl sprite is pretty good, but I think the changes that you made to the Popeye sprite are a mixed bag. As far as his walking animation goes, climbing the stairs looks better, but when he is just walking along a flat surface that same animation makes him look like he is walking with a limp. Also, I think it looks odd that he starts out straight up and down rather than in mid-stride (this has the added downside of making the hearts harder to catch on the uppermost level in Stage 1). I don't have any issues with the new head, but I feel like his arm looks too stubby now in the punch animation and the lead arm/fist when he is walking looks a bit amorphous to me (not sure how that could be improved).

 

By the way, here is the mockup that I mentioned above with the blue Bluto, and more importantly, the stereoscopic stairs that I mentioned in my last post added to the bottom level of Stage 3:

 

 

Feel free to use the stairs as is or tweak them to your liking as you please. I think that they look better than just having the blank black space there (at least now the player can clearly see that there are stairs there instead of just having to suppose it like before).

 

One last thing, can you PM me Popeye's animation frames? I might like to have a go at them and see what tweaks I can come up with (it's not my first time working with pixel art or spriting).

[ILA2600]

Changed the Background color of Level 3, Level 1, and 2 Background color is still black! :-) PS I tried to match the background color as close as I could to the Original Arcade version

Edited February 7, 2017 by ILA2600

[KevinMos3]

3) ...As far as his walking animation goes, climbing the stairs looks better, but when he is just walking along a flat surface that same animation makes him look like he is walking with a limp. Also, I think it looks odd that he starts out straight up and down rather than in mid-stride (this has the added downside of making the hearts harder to catch on the uppermost level in Stage 1). I don't have any issues with the new head, but I feel like his arm looks too stubby now in the punch animation and the lead arm/fist when he is walking looks a bit amorphous to me (not sure how that could be improved).

 

The arcade has kind of a hobble to his walk, so I went with moving the pixels left/right instead of making one of his frames 1 pixel shorter. However, I kind of like how he looks when moved 1 pixel left/right and 1 pixel shorter. It gives a bit more bounce. As for his stride, there's not enough difference between the 2 other frames for his punch to be very visible, which is why I put them in that order. However, I changed his sprite to have the lengthened stride while his arms are in, which still gives plenty of variation with the punch for it to show up. As for the punch, you're limited to 8 pixels wide, so his arm is going to look stubby no matter what.

 

By the way, here is the mockup that I mentioned above with the blue Bluto, and more importantly, the stereoscopic stairs that I mentioned in my last post added to the bottom level of Stage 3:

 

Those are playfield graphics, so everything is 4 pixels wide. Also, only 1 color per scanline. You could do something like this:

Popeye (FBP) Alt Popeye5.bin

 

One last thing, can you PM me Popeye's animation frames? I might like to have a go at them and see what tweaks I can come up with (it's not my first time working with pixel art or spriting).

 

By far the easiest way to edit sprites is with Bithacker. I like to use that for simple sprite edits and a hex editor for everything else. There are only 2 walking frames. Here are the previous upload versions and some edits from today. Don't go taller than the existing walking frames or it will get cut off when on the top level. I chose to extend a couple of pixels with the punch because it's hardly noticeable since the punch happens so fast. I'm also attaching a few walking frames from the arcade for reference that I've edited to be single color.

 

Previous:

Current:

or

Arcade:

 

 

 

Changed the Background color of Level 3, Level 1, and 2 Background color is still black! :-) PS I tried to match the background color as close as I could to the Original Arcade version

 

Cool. I'm thinking it may be a bit hard on the eyes though. I'd have to see how the colors look on real hardware, but I don't have my Harmony cart for now.

Edited February 8, 2017 by KevinMos3

[+darryl1970]

Kevin, I really like the levels, but not a fan of Popeye at all. He is missing the trademark lip curl. I don't think either body is better or worse, but I would definitely back go back to the head I had in there. Popeye is supposed to have a bulging chin and a curl to his lip. With that and the other improvements, I think it's a 2600 winner.

 

Here is something like what I had in mind. I am having a problem on my work PC right now though. I hope this comes out properly. If not, I'll update at home and post.

I was able to make a few edits in Popeye. After that, I can scribble on Popeye's face, save as a different name, and the graphics remain untouched in that version.

 

So, if there's any issue, let me know. As far as I know, it should look like the pic. (Although this is not the actual finished Popeye I prefer. I am unable to further refine the body.)

Maybe my Stella is cached somehow, so I will include multiple versions.

 

 

 

Popeye (FBP) Alt Popeye5-1.bin

 

Popeye (FBP) Alt Popeye5-2.bin

Popeye (FBP) Alt Popeye5-3.bin

Popeye (FBP) Alt Popeye5-4.bin

 

[KevinMos3]

Here is something like what I had in mind. I am having a problem on my work PC right now though. I hope this comes out properly. If not, I'll update at home and post.

I was able to make a few edits in Popeye. After that, I can scribble on Popeye's face, save as a different name, and the graphics remain untouched in that version.

 

So, if there's any issue, let me know. As far as I know, it should look like the pic. (Although this is not the actual finished Popeye I prefer. I am unable to further refine the body.)

Maybe my Stella is cached somehow, so I will include multiple versions.

 

Maybe you somehow started editing a different instance of Popeye in the ROM. The sprites are repeated in each bank after the bankswitching hack, so you might have accidentally been editing another bank.

The versions looked the same to me, but maybe I didn't look close enough.

 

I see what you're going for, but for me, the head is just too big. However, I did take another look at the arcade sprite and made some more tweaks (2 variants).

 

 

When it's all said and done... if we aren't satisfied with the sprites, anyone can tweak them to suit their taste. As for me, I'm still not completely satisfied, but I like these better than the original ones.

[+darryl1970]

 

Maybe you somehow started editing a different instance of Popeye in the ROM. The sprites are repeated in each bank after the bankswitching hack, so you might have accidentally been editing another bank.

The versions looked the same to me, but maybe I didn't look close enough.

 

I see what you're going for, but for me, the head is just too big. However, I did take another look at the arcade sprite and made some more tweaks (2 variants).

 

Popeyes.png

 

When it's all said and done... if we aren't satisfied with the sprites, anyone can tweak them to suit their taste. As for me, I'm still not completely satisfied, but I like these better than the original ones.

Yes. The big head does give it that bit of NBA JAM feel. My thought is that it is the one area we CAN get some Popeye-defining detail.

However, I do like what you have accomplished with the smaller, more proportionate footprint.

 

I like the frame where Popeye's mouth curls down. Instead of a "smile" for the second frame, what if you remove both mouth pixels.

Not sure how it will look in real-time animation, but here's a rough mock-up comparison.

 

Also, if this is any help, this is the sprite from my 5200/A8 Popeye, flattened to one color.

It has the luxury of an extra step frame, so it's not an exact plug.

 

Here's a version of the more detailed head, but a little smaller. The body is just a quick, rough draft, since I am at work.

I wanted to see what it might look like, if we could get a display list interrupt in there, but I doubt there are any cycles left in this game. It's really well done for the time!

Edited February 9, 2017 by darryl1970

[KevinMos3]

...I like the frame where Popeye's mouth curls down. Instead of a "smile" for the second frame, what if you remove both mouth pixels...

 

I like that idea. Here it is in the ROM along with a tweak to his arm.

 

Popeye (FBP) Alt Popeye5.bin

 

 

Yeah, it would be great if we could get more colors. I have mockups for the playfields for if each scanline could have it's own color. Having per-scanline color for the characters would be even better.

 

 

Of course, if we actually got multicolors, I'd make some more tweaks to the levels (namely level 2) to make them a bit more fitting.

[+darryl1970]

Those colors are nice!

[CDS Games]

Yeah, it would be great if we could get more colors. I have mockups for the playfields for if each scanline could have it's own color. Having per-scanline color for the characters would be even better.

 

Popeye (FBP) Alt Popeye1.png Popeye (FBP) Alt Popeye2.png Popeye (FBP) Alt Popeye3.png

 

Of course, if we actually got multicolors, I'd make some more tweaks to the levels (namely level 2) to make them a bit more fitting.

 

If cycles are an issue, how about dropping the PF0 draw completely and getting by with a narrower playfield? You'd only be losing 4 playfield columns per side, and that might free enough room to add color. Would need level redesign and tweaks to the movement code of course.

[ILA2600]

Here is my hack of Popeye for the FBP, I used the bankswitch version, and changed the background color in the third level! :-)

Popeye Arcade ( FBP ).bin

[ILA2600]

I re did the Thru signs, they look a lot better!

[NostAlgae37]

 

There are only 2 walking frames. Don't go taller than the existing walking frames or it will get cut off when on the top level. I chose to extend a couple of pixels with the punch because it's hardly noticeable since the punch happens so fast. I'm also attaching a few walking frames from the arcade for reference that I've edited to be single color.

 

 

OK, Kevin, here are my attempts at some new animation frames for Popeye. The first one is the starting position, the second one is mid-stride, and the third one is a new take on the punch frame:

 

 

I'm not sure how the 2 walking animation frames look when looped for the actual in-game movement, but I'm pretty happy with how the first frame turned out so I can adapt the second frame if needed. I also think that the punch now looks the best that it is likely capable of. Let me know what you think. Thanks!

 

(Edit: I decided that the above frames looked too Fleischer Studios-era, so I gave them a look more in line with the Famous Studios ethos featured in the original arcade game.)

Edited February 18, 2017 by NostAlgae37

[Jinroh]

Wow I really like these updated sprites, if they could be coloured that would be killer. I also really like Kev's playfield mockups they look amazing! Both would really give it much closer feel to the arcade version.

 

Can you guys do Kangaroo next? j/k

 

Yes. The big head does give it that bit of NBA JAM feel. My thought is that it is the one area we CAN get some Popeye-defining detail.

However, I do like what you have accomplished with the smaller, more proportionate footprint.

 

I like the frame where Popeye's mouth curls down. Instead of a "smile" for the second frame, what if you remove both mouth pixels.

Not sure how it will look in real-time animation, but here's a rough mock-up comparison.

VCSPopeye.png

 

Also, if this is any help, this is the sprite from my 5200/A8 Popeye, flattened to one color.

It has the luxury of an extra step frame, so it's not an exact plug.

8Bit_1color.PNG

 

Here's a version of the more detailed head, but a little smaller. The body is just a quick, rough draft, since I am at work.

I wanted to see what it might look like, if we could get a display list interrupt in there, but I doubt there are any cycles left in this game. It's really well done for the time!

PopeyeVCS.gif

Edited February 15, 2017 by Jinroh

[KevinMos3]

Until I get more time to work on it, here's an alternate version which goes back to having only a single color for the playfield, but has a different color for each stage. I went with a purple background on level 3 because I've already uploaded a black background version (even though all levels had the same playfield color). I'd like to revisit it once I get settled in after my move.

 

Popeye (FBP) Alt Colors.bin

[ILA2600]

Until I get more time to work on it, here's an alternate version which goes back to having only a single color for the playfield, but has a different color for each stage. I went with a purple background on level 3 because I've already uploaded a black background version (even though all levels had the same playfield color). I'd like to revisit it once I get settled in after my move.

 

Popeye (FBP) Alt Colors.bin.png Popeye (FBP) Alt Colors.bin_2.png Popeye (FBP) Alt Colors.bin_3.png

Popeye (FBP) Alt Colors.bin

 

Looks great I like the Dark Purple for the background for level 3, The purple I picked was too light!

[ILA2600]

I found where the colors are at for the top buildings in Level 1, and 2, But had difficulty in searching for the yellow color in the buildings, and will search for the white letters that spell out POPEYE tomorrow!