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Games genres that we dont have on our A8!


Matej
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What you think, what game genres we dont have or we have only very few or we have but in poor graphics or sound on our A8???

What games I personally miss on my little Atari are:

 

- 3D game with Wolf 3D engine. Not demo but full game

- Streetfighter like game

- Good racing game

- Doubledragon like game

- Golden Axe like game

 

And thats all...

Edited by Matej
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Well,

 

I vote for a good and fast / fluid racing game (not as slow as Pitstop II). Either a motor-cycle game (better than Speed King and Speed Ace) or a car-racing game (F1 or other cars). E-Type is quite good:

or:

 

Personally I do not like beat-em-ups, luckily there are not that many on the A8, e.g. Riot:

or

 

Hack and slay is also not my favourite, so I do not miss it on the A8, maybe Droga Wojownika is one of them:

or

 

For a Wolf 3D type game, I think we do not absolutely need 256 colours, something like Capture the Flag (upper 2/3 for gamescreen, lower 1/3 for scanner/tracker/map, equipment, health, etc.) with aliens or monsters would also be cool:

Even a Midi Maze like dungeon would be acceptable for me, if it has good gameplay:

but no Maze of Agdagon, please:

 

And yes, Project-M looks absolutely great, but I doubt that it will ever get finished (or made playable), so I do not post a video here...

Edited by CharlieChaplin
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For a Wolf 3D type game, I think we do not absolutely need 256 colours, something like Capture the Flag (upper 2/3 for gamescreen, lower 1/3 for scanner/tracker/map, equipment, health, etc.) with aliens or monsters would also be cool:

How is it, that this game from 1982 has never yet been topped?

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What you think, what game genres we dont have or we have only very few or we have but in poor graphics or sound on our A8???

What games I personally miss on my little Atari are:

 

- 3D game with Wolf 3D engine. Not demo but full game- Streetfighter like game

Indeed it's a ridiculous part of history that not even a full genre based horde of "3d like ego shooter" games like that had been done for the A8. It was all there..

 

Streetfighter is another league.

Those games had to be aimed from a full different position. Nintendo showed over decades what it means o use "obsolete" hardware , to make people buying it.

 

 

If you only have old hardware, put the specs to the limits, as they were useful . Imagine Chop Suey, not just a cheap product, running from Cassette. Imagine it played from Cartridge, with a lots of more Details by PM overlays , Background scrolling, and so on. The used animation detail kick ass most of the 8 Bit fighting games, but it looks more like a programming study than a final game.

 

- Good racing game

To start creating such a game on the A8, the coder has to imagine that the A8 in no C64, but it is the A8 ;)

 

- Doubledragon like game-

Golden Axe like game

Same as with Streetfighter.

 

 

The A8 wouldn't just do better in the "Chop Suey" , it also had found it's own customers, as there had been full screen action on the TV.

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I'd love really great versions of all these on the 8 bit BUT the last thing I want to see is the poor 8 bit struggling to try and replicate something that really needs a faster clock and higher graphics ability. I love what is on the Atari and it has games with seriously great gameplay and even stunned me about how much could be crammed in to it and ran so well (Space Harrier for a start) but something hitting serious slowdown and a couple of frames a second would just tarnish the good old 8 bit unfairly. Its a great machine but Call of Duty may be a very long time coming :)

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Agreed, an example of somthing that could cause slowdown would be a Gradius/Salamander type scrolling shooter with crazy amounts of weapons active at any one time

That's why Gr. 7 plus PMg overlay is a must for those games.

The 1st game that approved that is GYRUSS. It's just a perfect Arcade conversion to the A8.

Using more of the later available cheaper RAM/ROM , opened "Worlds" as people might realize in Space Harrier.

 

Why use the strange "2:1" pixel ratio in games with rotating elements?

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Personally, I'd see games like salamander being done in hi res with loads of soft sprites etc but I reckon it would turn in to a horrible flickering mess IF people try and convert as close to the arcade as possible...

 

I'm not saying no one should try but if you look at the C64 things like Thunderblade, Space Harrier and all the other in to the screen 3D stuff then you see Chris Butler did a pretty amazing job considering and as far as Space Harrier Atrai goes I think Sheddy beat him hands down but I think we have to accept that some things will be pretty impossible to do a respectable job on it. I'm in awe of the work the guys here on AA and those Euro people, its been stunning but as Clint Eastwood says in one of the Dirty Harry films, "A man got sta know his limitations".

 

I love what's been done like Gorf (apart from the missing stage and speech), Gyruss, Defender, Donkey Kong etc etc, really nice arcade ports that play well but when you get to the big sprites that need good frames and animation then its like Body Blows on the Amiga vs Street Fighter on the SNES, you can see the limitations on the Amiga a mile away, some folks like Sodan and Magician 42 did big sprites well in Sword of Sodan but even that was basic compared to some stuff on the Snes etc.

 

But you know what, give me Spelunker, Jumpman, Whistlers brother and Bandits and of course Star Raiders any day...The 8 bit rocks as they say...

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If the VIC-20 can do Doom...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm2yDM2Fou8

 

Then surely an A8 can. This is what I want to see. :)

 

 

Technically we have Project M (is that the name?) which is a really nice Wolfenstein inspired demo / game (unfinished), personally for 3D maze type games on the Atari I prefer Capture the Flag, really sweet little game..

 

Impressed by the Vic 20 doom tho..

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I really don't expect to see anything to truly WOW us anymore on the A8-bit machines - because such a finished project requires too much time, effort and hard work on the part of the programmer especially.

But you can never say what can and can't happen - because for someone with time on their hands (guessing that people in their retirement years may wish to revisit this old system because of their fondest memories of it) and a personal desire to do something with it?

 

But still - I don't think it'll be a worthwhile project completing or even working on - if the end result has a too slow frame rate - or not being able to use colours effectively in it.

Some game genres are not even worth considering because of the above factors.

 

With Capture the Flag - was this making the full use of the hardware - such that nothing more could be squeezed in? You would have to compare it to Wayout - that you couldn't increase the screen size by much? And if you have to drop the frame rate - this would be undesirable, unless you added much more in other areas to the game concept.

 

It is a huge time/work commitment for anyone bringing a first class project to completion - so I don't expect to see one person wanting to commit to it. But that if it's a group project - with people willing to give their expertise - in their particular area - to help out - maybe it would make it that much easier to bring about?

But then you know what happens with committees - that it gets left to one person to do the actual work, and put in a lot of time needed for it to actually happen....

 

While any Doom game running on the Vic-20 can be considered a major achievement for it - when I see this running - it only confirmed my first impressions of this hardware - that it's font was really dreadful and it's graphics modes about the same - pretty dismal - not much ahead of the Commodore Pet. You have only to bring up the Atari 400 vs the Commodore Vic-20 argument - and we here know which is the better hardware to have bought.

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With Capture the Flag - was this making the full use of the hardware - such that nothing more could be squeezed in? You would have to compare it to Wayout - that you couldn't increase the screen size by much? And if you have to drop the frame rate - this would be undesirable, unless you added much more in other areas to the game concept.

Capture the Flag was a successor to Wayout! , using many border features of the A8 , to reach that.

 

Turning back to one player ego view, Wayout! used that DL special of re-using adresses. An Ego-Shooter could do the same, using character modes, with variable contents of the characters. From a special point of view , there are "endless" variations of enhancing "Wayout! ...

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I remember first seeing Way out / Capture the flag (I mix then up) and thinking WOW, that effect looks awesome as I'd never seen a 3D style (the term 3D was even applicable to gaming at that time) computer game, Stealth and BallBlazer were good but you could sort of work out how stuff like stealth was doing it with the subtle horizon increments but wayout felt like you were in that maze and as genres were a thing of the future it was just a lovely thing that I would not have thought possible on my 8 bit that had just seen arcade ports and what would these days be classed as simple games like Chicken (which I still play) so Wayout was a bit of a mind blow at first sight.

 

I just don't want to see the Atari being embarrassed, sure do private tests to see how far it can be pushed but realise when its not working right and try something else after you have exhausted your thinking on that line, Its not a Snes, its not a NeoGeo nor a Dreamcast, some idea's are just best left on those machines, try by all means but lets not sour the poor old 8bit with stuff that you can see its struggling to even update the screen, lets give it some dignity...

Edited by Mclaneinc
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if we kept to those ideas of let's not make it struggle or push it... we wouldn't have ended up with a good number of awesome games we now have... If we listened to all that people would still be believing that digitized sound was impossible during game play... there would be nothing to view videos with sound... Mr Atari's av player wouldn't exist.....and no further improvement would have happened for that player. Forget about most of the games for the last 11 or so years....

 

sorry I want the Atari pushed!

I want it to struggle.... as some one, some team figures out how do it faster, more efficiently, or follows those ideas and completely recodes them... BOOM!... everyone goes wow! That's amazing! And for the next few years the excitement and energy in the community flows fast and free. Everyone is proud and enjoys their Atari even more with a satisfaction, a happiness that's contagious! Our friends, our family of graphists, coders, and musicians held in the highest esteem for their latest discovery, work, effort and wizardry!

 

Keep pushing people! You bring joy to our joysticks! Power to our paddles! You have made me happy as a participant as well as a spectator!

 

Those are my thoughts!

Edited by _The Doctor__
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I just don't want to see the Atari being embarrassed, sure do private tests to see how far it can be pushed but realise when its not working right and try something else after you have exhausted your thinking on that line, Its not a Snes, its not a NeoGeo nor a Dreamcast, ...

That's a well point. The Atari also is not a C64, never has been . But from the 1st moment , people tried to squeeze "C64" out of the Atari. Doing that with the A8 features, would have brought more capable A8 games and an own customer "range" .

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The C-64 had the numbers behind it - hence more programmers pushing that hardware to it's limits - whereas the Atari had decreasing support as the C-64 became dominant.

There's been a bit of resurgence with the appearance of Crownland - which could do with a bit of hacking to correct it's control/playability?

 

Jumpman could do with a few more pixels (with lots of animation) and proper backgrounds - increasing the scale should be no problem - if you adding scrolling screens?

You could still keep the gameplay simple and fun? Extras could be added - like a trip hazard, slip hazard and so on - it could easily be a 5 or 10 year project in which it'll grow organically so that an ultimate platform game evolves - that is Atari 8-bit only.

I'm not drawn to the original game - as I would have liked to have seen it been more like Miner 2049'er, Montezuma's Revenge, Bristles...in scale.

 

Harvey

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Chris Butler made a very brave attempt with UK Space Harrier, espically given it was coded in 6 weeks and put out on tape.

 

Plus, he improved the game for the NTSC version:

 

 

Give him the same resources as the A8 version had and I wonder what he could of come up with?.

 

 

Having said that, i would love to see Shreddy attempt something like C64 PowerDrift or Turbo Charge, which featured improved 3D routines by Chris Butler.

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That's a well point. The Atari also is not a C64, never has been . But from the 1st moment , people tried to squeeze "C64" out of the Atari. Doing that with the A8 features, would have brought more capable A8 games and an own customer "range" .

 

 

Arghh..I've NOT said don't push the machine, just don't release stuff that is utterly unplayable or makes the Atari look bad...There's a HUGE difference..

 

As I said in those posts, push it as far as possible but if its not working after you have tried your best the try something else..

 

The C64 analogy is a bit weak as we CAN make stuff very close if not better than the C64 BUT there's stuff on it that just don't work as well due to tech limitations on the Atari, that is the reason I used far more complex machines as my test and NOT the C64, I know we can do half decent C64 stuff. Try making Super Mario World on the 8bit., try making Pilotwings etc etc.

 

I've not said don't try anywhere in my posts..I've actually said the total opposite..

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The C-64 had the numbers behind it - hence more programmers pushing that hardware to it's limits - whereas the Atari had decreasing support as the C-64 became dominant.

There's been a bit of resurgence with the appearance of Crownland - which could do with a bit of hacking to correct it's control/playability?

 

Jumpman could do with a few more pixels (with lots of animation) and proper backgrounds - increasing the scale should be no problem - if you adding scrolling screens?

You could still keep the gameplay simple and fun? Extras could be added - like a trip hazard, slip hazard and so on - it could easily be a 5 or 10 year project in which it'll grow organically so that an ultimate platform game evolves - that is Atari 8-bit only.

I'm not drawn to the original game - as I would have liked to have seen it been more like Miner 2049'er, Montezuma's Revenge, Bristles...in scale.

 

Harvey

 

 

Personally I am not a fan of the C64 versions of Jumpman and the others you mention, they felt like ultra quick ports and way less vibrant than the Atari versions, also early sound on the C64 seemed to be all about playing with the filters so most stuff just sounded wrong for me, certainly not like the original but not better either.

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Chris Butler made a very brave attempt with UK Space Harrier, espically given it was coded in 6 weeks and put out on tape.

 

Plus, he improved the game for the NTSC version:

 

 

Give him the same resources as the A8 version had and I wonder what he could of come up with?.

 

 

Having said that, i would love to see Shreddy attempt something like C64 PowerDrift or Turbo Charge, which featured improved 3D routines by Chris Butler.

 

Yep I mentioned Chris earlier in the thread, he was the go to guy for this sort of game on the C64 and given the time and expectation I think he did a bloody good job but Sheddy's SH is oh so better :)

Edited by Mclaneinc
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