Oh, there is a "Lens of Truth" . . . Complaining about Ocarina of Time

[+wongojack]

So, the little ninja elf guy gives you a song to get you to the next temple AND when you play it and are in that temple you get messages about seeing the truth BUT you can just walk through hidden doors if you try, so it makes perfect sense that you actually need to travel back in time and find an object, right?

 

I'm playing this for the first time, and I have to say it would have made much more sense to simply bar the entrance to the Shadow Temple without the eye. I've been wandering around it for hours thinking "Well if they let me in I must have what I need. That was the deal with the hookshot and the game wouldn't let me skip that." I got all the way to the room that tells you blah blah blah stone umbrella and couldn't figure out what to do next. I didn't want any spoilers, but I finally checked a walkthrough and saw the references to the Lens. How was I supposed to know about that? Am I supposed to go wander around the entire world again? I had visited the well as both a child and a teen already and got nowhere.

 

 

I might have to stop playing this now. I'm not sure it is worth it to keep going.

[HoshiChiri]

I feel ya bro... I've been playing through Magic Knight Rayearth on the Saturn, and got to a room with a locked door & nothing to interact with in it. I consulted a walkthrough (I have no qualms about such forms of cheating! ), and discovered I needed to kill an invisible spider.

 

Who comes UP with this stuff?!

[Tanooki]

Are you playing this on the old N64 release? I know some mechanics when it came to the Gamecube emulated (or any Nintendo emulated) release and later the 3DS had issues with it. The original used the rumble pack for the mechanics to tip you off when it needs to be used and the later emulated or conversion copies I believe fail to do that.

 

Ocarina is too loved for its own good, it's a good game, but it's not the best of franchise as a lot of drones will rattle on about as it has flaws. The ocean temple had me furious for a time because the camera will alone throw you directions where you can easily miss a switch for an hour if you're lucky. The lens would be another issue too. I actually got fed up with it back in the day, gave up on it for 6 months to then come back and take down the desert, the colossus, and the rest of the ending parts after that in one long afternoon haul. I've never finished it twice unlike Wind Waker which I find far superior other than the one somewhat late game boring triforce hunt.

[+wongojack]

I'm playing on an N64, but I don't have a rumble pack.

 

I investigated the well in both time periods multiple times. I tried bombs and songs as a teen. I'd also talked to the windmill guy, but for whatever reason, I didn't consider using the Ocarina. He does reference the past, but what he says isn't anything that would have tipped me off to trying to play for him. Except of course the idea that you just need to try the Ocarina with every character in the game - ugh.

 

I dunno, I may have to break up with the game for a while. I was already getting tired of what I would call "trial and error gaming" in the various dungeons. I spent a lot of time in the Forrest Temple going through the rooms multiple times and even trying to get where I knew I wasn't supposed to go only to realize that camera angles hid the fact that I just needed to fall through a hole in the floor. The Water Temple also struck me as a pretty tedious design where you had to change the water level and then just go revisit everything again. Then get the longer hookshot and replay everything yet another time just to find the spot you couldn't get to before.

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

Being its your first playthrough, of course its going to be rough but give it a chance. I always used a strategy guide with this game. Anymore I don't really need to since I've been at it a while but occasionally need to take a peek when I get stuck. A lot of stuff can be skipped but I can see how it can frustrating. Maybe my view of this game is a but skewed since I've owned it since the beginning, a Ton of nostalgia with this one. The 3DS remake is even better but I was never able to get into Majora's Mask. YMMV. If you ever get bored, watch some OoT speedruns.. I found it pretty entertaining to watch and its crazy how broken the game is when played in an unconventional manner. Check out Zeldadungeon.com for a great online strategy guide.

[godslabrat]

Oceania of Time is a fair game, by Zelda series standards, but when I was playing it, I felt like all the puzzles were either easy to the point of being insulting, or difficult to the point of not even being fun. Majora's Mask, on the other hand, seemed to find that sweet spot nicely.

 

The reason Ocarina of Time has such rabid fans is that it was the first 3D Zelda, released right at a time when 3D games were assumed to be the greatest thing ever. AND it was the first new Zelda game in half a decade. However, outside of that historical context, it's not that remarkable.

Edited January 29, 2017 by godslabrat

[Tanooki]

Now there's one I can't stand at all and I've tried every 5 years or so since it came out as I find second hand carts. Majora's Mask or as I call it Majora's Mistake, the game that shook my faith that Nintendo could do no wrong with the franchise. The game is just terrible, the forced mechanics with the time limit and a lot of really pointless masks that just extend optional play time and the crude way the world is just handled in general. Both the N64 titles are a little rough, it was something new, and just like FF7 OOT gets way too much instant undeserved praise as the best game on either system which they very clearly are not. I don't hate Ocarina (or FF7) but they're B tier games if that to me in their franchises.

 

After that (MM) I was more wary with releases and as time has marked on less and less of the releases I've liked to the point now I don't even anticipate them anymore. I'll end up with the Switch one to have something to do around Bomberman and a few others, but I have no delusion of my likelihood of ever finishing it, but if I do, yay!.

[godslabrat]

All I can say is, I go back to Majora's Mask with a smile. I don't think I've done much with OOT since the first time I finished it.

 

Of course, since then, Zelda games have been released on a near-annual basis.

[Tanooki]

Annual? Not really. if you include every console release including the give away (Collectors and OOT/MQ on Cube) plus all the individual releases on each Gameboy and DS/3DS handheld too, it should be 20 or 21 games over now 30 years.

[godslabrat]

That's still a game every 1.5 years.

[Tanooki]

Yeah if you count the 2 freebies it is, wouldn't affect it much without either. Still though if you put it in perspective of releases with the time frame between each it's actually not all that bad (especially if you erase the overlap re-release stuff.) A lot of people though are not handheld gamers too, if you throw those 11 games out of the mix it really splits it up too. I just don't see Zelda as a yearly affair, kind of like how people groan about the amount of Mario games, but if you subtract the sports and other fluff and just play the actual adventure titles it has a decent spread.

[CatPix]

And if you remove game re-release or 3HD release, it's more spaced than yearly release.

I mean the last new Zelda home console game was Skyward Sword, in 2011.

I think portable release should be separate as they have not much in common with home zelda games.

For home systems, that give us 7 games in 30 years, and 8 on portable consoles.

So one game every 2 years or so.

Edited January 30, 2017 by CatPix

[godslabrat]

Bear in mind, my comment was about the post-Majora's Mask years. There have been 14 games between 2000 and 2017.

Edited January 30, 2017 by godslabrat

[CatPix]

Most of them being reeditions/HD versions.

[Tanooki]

Post MM there's...

02 - Wind Waker

04 - Four Swords GC

06- Twilight Princess GC

11 - Skyward Sword Wii

 

That's it console side excluding the doubled up TP release on Wii, and it again along with WW on WiiU in HD style.

 

Handheld was more busy

01 - (2) Oracle games

04 - Minish Cap

07 - Phantom Hourglass

09 - Spirit Tracks

13 - Link Between Worlds

15 - Triforce Heroes

(LTTP SNES port, 3DS remasters of Ocarina and Majora left out too.)

[+wongojack]

Finally came back to this and got the lens. I looked at guides to see stuff I'd missed. some were just little extra things (when did they reveal that you catch bugs and put them in the holes?), but mostly knowing what was missed really pissed me off. I never unfroze the water king "why go back for blue flame right?". That means I played the entire water temple without the benefit of the blue outfit UGH!!

 

I also had no idea that fire arrows existed. I read the clues about the island and tried a couple things. When it didn't work, I moved on. Now I'm in Ganon's castle and they are basically required . . . WTF Nintendo?!

 

Here's what I think about every 3d Zelda, The Dungeons are incredible and the over world is something an adult should be embarrassed to be caught playing. It is always Full of the thinnest and stupidest characters and clues that confound. I wish there was an "All Dungeons" version of 3d (or 2d) Zelda. I'm surprised that hasn't been made yet. Also, a Zelda dungeon maker game would be awesome.

 

Meanwhile, I'm in too deep to quit now. I guess I'll go get the fire arrows and finish this thing.

[Duke75]

Haha, I've been replaying this off and on for the past year or so and the last time I played it, a few months ago, I got hung up on the lack of fire arrows, too. So I need to get those next time I play and I'll probably beat it when I do.

 

I really liked the game when I originally played it but I have to admit that I find it very ponderous compared to the 2D games.

[+wongojack]

I finished it. I wouldn't have gotten the Biggoron Sword, the Fire Arrows, or the double damage protection without walkthroughs, but I'm really glad I got them. In the end Ganon wasn't too hard really, but my N64 froze up 2x during the battle with 2nd Ganon. That was the hardest thing about the fight - LOL. I guess you can't use magical protection and expect the game to not glitch out on you . . .

 

I'm really glad that is over, now I'll wait until 2019 before finally playing Skyward Sword.

[Tanooki]

That sounds like 3D Zelda alright. The least aggravating of them of the original style would be Wind Waker since there wasn't a huge amount of land to aggravate you to death over, just a whole lot of sailing so that would be a love/hate thing depending on your taste. Breath of the Wild is so dramatically different it doesn't suffer from the same issues.

[Atariboy]

Aren't the fire arrows what you get when you shoot the sun from that small island at Lake Hylia?

 

If so, I believe that stone tablet on the island explains it all. I'm paraphrasing, but it says to fire an arrow at the rising sun when the lake is again filled with water, which is exactly what you have to do.

 

I don't believe that it spells out that you'll be rewarded with the fire arrow ability, but too much hand holding just would ruin it. You'll supposed to have read this large stone during the natural course of exploration and have your curiosity piqued when the lake is dry, so that you return once the water level has been restored and follow the instructions to see what happens (Which is a step that happens before you encounter situations that demand the use of the fire arrows).

 

I replayed this on the 3DS last year for my first full playthrough since 1999. While I played what amounts to a remaster with some added creature comforts, I thought the basic game design held up well.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Atariboy

[+wongojack]

Read the stone - doesn't say shoot arrows (just shoot) - curiosity was piqued - tried a few things and nothing happened. I gave up and of course had no idea what the reward would be. Most of the time you get a chest with like 5 rupees in it.

[Atariboy]

Were the other rewards for doing something other than shooting an arrow? I don't think I've ever tried something else like firing the hookshot towards the sun.

 

It's unfortunate that you had a bit of poor luck there and it's certainly open to argue that the hint the game provided wasn't clear enough, but in general I personally like a bit of vagueness in Zelda games. Not so much that you have to rely on a faq, but enough that where if you do break down and look something up, you end up feeling like it actually wasn't necessary afterwards.

 

One I've often seen complaints about is the fish that you have to bring to the whale to open his mouth. I don't remember having trouble with that in 1999, but I've seen it cited numerous times over the years as being an example where Ocarina of Time was too unclear for its own good.

 

I wonder if I looked that up back then and have since forgotten that I did.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Atariboy

[leods]

I played through the first temple on Ocarina of Time 3D, and it was so damned boring. Does this game get any better? I do like experiencing these games that are core experiences in gaming, but damn, I never expected this game to be this poorly designed. If this was an indie game released this year I wouldn't even have finished the first dungeon, and I'd probably give this a terrible review, saying these "developers" need to go back to the drawing board, and try to create something that makes sense. I'd even go as far as saying they should play games like Zelda to learn what this kind of experience should be like.

 

Go figure. I do think this is another of those games where developers were new into the 3D craze, and were more worried about shoehorning a game in their tech demo, than actually using the tech because they felt they needed it. Basically what AAA game development has turned into for the most part.

 

And for people who try to justify saying it's a product of it's time, if Asteroids was a good game, what excuse do people have for these games being bad?

 

I still respect people liking this. I like games that are probably worse. It all comes to when you play a game and what it means to you at that moment.

[godslabrat]

My complaint with ocarina of time was that the challenge was very uneven. The puzzles fell neatly into two piles of "this is insanely obvious and I'm annoyed at having to go through the motions" and "I would never have figured this out in a million years, and I don't even feel bad for using the walkthrough." Very little hit the challenge sweetspot

[Tanooki]

When water fills the lake, shoot for the morning light <- Ocarina of time Fire Arrow hint. While it doesn't put a bullseye on it, it's pretty much common sense if you stand on that platform it is rectangular and aims for 2 stone spots on a distant island and the sun always rises between them. While it may not say SHOOT HERE for fire arrow, it's pretty much common sense it's saying something will happen.

 

 

 

Now I do agree Ocarina of Time isn't that great and gets a heaping pile of overkill fanboy love thrown at it like it's the best thing from Nintendo 64 as much as FF7 didn't deserve all that BS over it's mediocrity either on PSX too. Both of them have long boring stretches, some you can't skip, with wonky story moments and really dumb moments where things won't make sense or you need a guide to handle it due to bad design under the hood. Being that they were both the first jumps to 3D from 2D for major franchises I think that somehow allows fools to heap false rose tinted praise on the games they really don't deserve. I've only finished it once and had a few false starts on the 3DS and N64 version since as it just isn't that good and the games got worse over time with a rare pass to (for me) Wind Waker that made it less painful to enjoy as it was the only 3D one I happily finished without making myself do it up until they destroyed that tired ass format for Breath of the Wild.