Lock 'N Chase 8k (Collapsing Lupin) with Box (Only 4)

[AtariBuff]

 

The1hatman was definitely more than willing to produce Blix and Piggy Bank boxes to anyone that asked within a certain window of time before but now will not respond to requests (at least mine) for this one. Why else would that be except to drive up auction prices? I was looking forward to purchasing or trading for the SP Baseball and Mystic Castle boxes from The1hatman as well in the near future but will they go down this road as well? While this may not have been what you intended by having The1hatman produce boxes to help you sell your last four games, it is certainly coming across as such by blocking further box production when it has just been announced, demand is obviously way more than supply, and you state that more will (probably) not be produced. That does not support this community, it only exploits it.

I see, that's why my requests sent in April and May 2016 to the1hatman about boxes for Blix and Piggy Bank are still sitting unanswered in my messenger box here on AtariAge. With that in mind, my decision to stop buying all and everything homebrew for the Inty last year, seems like the best one made. As I wasn't very active in 2016 due to too much work and family time, I missed stuff left and right, and bought all games now that sound fun to play, like Gosub and surely Rev's releases (when they arrive). Thus said I won't even bother to raise my bid here for this boxed release and my complete Inty homebrew collection (one of each ever released) ends 2016. And boy, I have no bad feelings about that

[Eric7100]

Meaning if he made more they would not have boxes because he only had the 4 that he traded me for. He does not have the ability to make boxes so whether he made 0 or 1000 more they would not come with boxes from him.

 

He said no boxes. He didn't say no boxes from him. How does he know the boxes couldn't come from somebody else?

[Eric7100]

...my complete Inty homebrew collection (one of each ever released) ends 2016. And boy, I have no bad feelings about that

 

That's the difference between you and me. I DO have bad feelings about it, because if it wasn't for the shenanigans of some Intellivision homebrewers, we would all still be able to have complete collections. They've made it harder, not easier, since the early 2000's. And it doesn't have to be that way. As with everything else, human beings make things unnecessarily complicated, or even impossible.

[decle]

There seems to be an implicit assumption that the market for homebrew games should operate at close to perfect competition.

I suspect that this is not the case. For a start there not many participants, on either the supply or demand side. As a consequence, the actions of a small number of individuals can have a significant effect on the market. This applies to buyers as much as sellers.

Perhaps the actions of the "CIB completist" sub-community distorts the market as much as the game suppliers? This group of consumers make up a significant part of the market and are relatively insensitive to product quality and price. Some purchase several copies of each title without a meaningful assessment of the product. This might suggest that the production of high quality product will not be driven as strongly as in other markets. They are also a vocal community and perhaps suppliers are persuaded to focus on their requirements to the exclusion of other buyers. Would the ROM only market be larger if their influence was less? Would the overall number of games be higher, because the barriers to entry to the ROM only market are lower?

Now, before someone takes me to task over the details of the last paragraph, I know I am being vague and speculative and deliberately provocative.

The point is that in a market this small it is likely that the actions of ALL participants have consequences. Therefore, before lamenting the state of the affairs and seeking to apportion blame, it might be good idea to put the bucket of stones down and check you're not standing in a glass house. Certainly, in the light of conversations like these, even if I write something I think worthy of a physical release, I will think carefully before choosing to do so.

(disclosure - I was a member of the homebrew cartridge CIB completist community between 2001-2011, I stopped at this point because the expense:enjoyment did not justify continuing).

 

decle

[Games For Your Intellivision]

 

He said no boxes. He didn't say no boxes from him. How does he know the boxes couldn't come from somebody else?

 

He didn't say that 'no boxes would come from him' specifically, because it is understood by context.

 

You are free to start producing boxes yourself.

[AtariBuff]

 

That's the difference between you and me. I DO have bad feelings about it, because if it wasn't for the shenanigans of some Intellivision homebrewers, we would all still be able to have complete collections. They've made it harder, not easier, since the early 2000's. And it doesn't have to be that way. As with everything else, human beings make things unnecessarily complicated, or even impossible.

You just have to cut loose. See, the Intellivision is just one of several of my retro gaming collections and I didn't have the console when I was a kid, so I also have no psychological bond attached with it, contrary to the Atari 2600 and some other consoles though.

 

When a few homebrewers decide to go that way and make obtaining a complete collection (for the hardcore collectors that want to) an elitist hobby, then so be it. And I'm not even speaking about the money it needs to get all the releases, as in my case, I bought heavily inflated prices for Blix and Piggy when there even was the chance to obtain a copy due to their limited release numbers. One even had to attend PRGE in person to obtain them. Am I angry about the people, who sold them to me at overinflated prices, when they saw how much demand is for these games and they could make a quick buck from the completists? No, because I thought, I absolutely would need them and I didn't care, because money is of no concern to me. My concern was availability and the chance to even get one of these releases, which was just too time consuming and too much a hassle. I'm sure, my bid here will be head into oblivion pretty soon.

And so last year, I decided to no longer participate in this game to be an elitist complete collector.

[Intymike]

 

You don't mean this one do you?

 

 

He refers to this non existing variation.

[+DZ-Jay]

There seems to be an implicit assumption that the market for homebrew games should operate at close to perfect competition.

 

I suspect that this is not the case. For a start there not many participants, on either the supply or demand side. As a consequence, the actions of a small number of individuals can have a significant effect on the market. This applies to buyers as much as sellers.

 

Perhaps the actions of the "CIB completist" sub-community distorts the market as much as the game suppliers? This group of consumers make up a significant part of the market and are relatively insensitive to product quality and price. Some purchase several copies of each title without a meaningful assessment of the product. This might suggest that the production of high quality product will not be driven as strongly as in other markets. They are also a vocal community and perhaps suppliers are persuaded to focus on their requirements to the exclusion of other buyers. Would the ROM only market be larger if their influence was less? Would the overall number of games be higher, because the barriers to entry to the ROM only market are lower?

 

Now, before someone takes me to task over the details of the last paragraph, I know I am being vague and speculative and deliberately provocative.

 

The point is that in a market this small it is likely that the actions of ALL participants have consequences. Therefore, before lamenting the state of the affairs and seeking to apportion blame, it might be good idea to put the bucket of stones down and check you're not standing in a glass house. Certainly, in the light of conversations like these, even if I write something I think worthy of a physical release, I will think carefully before choosing to do so.

 

(disclosure - I was a member of the homebrew cartridge CIB completist community between 2001-2011, I stopped at this point because the expense:enjoyment did not justify continuing).

 

 

decle

 

In the Intellivision community we don't use buckets of stones. We use Pitchforks & Torches, and recently we discovered the torchfork!

 

 

-dZ.

[m-crew]

In the Intellivision community we don't use buckets of stones. We use Pitchforks & Torches, and recently we discovered the torchfork!

 

 

-dZ.

 

And recently that pitchfork and torches has opened a lot of eyes around here. lol

With preorders supply and demands could come close to matching and sellers would not sit on products and buyers would have a chance at buying at fair prices and not manipulated.

Yes prices still are no matter how some try to explain it. Maybe not fully on purpose but decisions and actions always have a reaction positive or negative.

 

With how farckles and homebrews are flooding our little market the complete collection is gone for most.. Pick and choose wisely. Wants and needs differ between people and maybe who ever is in this solely for the coin and to exploite the generous people here can get weeded out by no one purchasing from them.

 

Threats of producers not producing may come(have come) because of people questioning "questionable" decisions and actions of some and making them accountable for those said action.

No worries about those holes getting filled.

If there is a need , that need will be filled especially if some money could be made for a passion of someone's..

That is the nature of the marketplace.

 

Cheers and enjoy , I so luv hearing everyone's views.. on both sides

 

You guy Rock

Cheers

 

Cheers and Party on !!!

Edited February 20, 2017 by m-crew

[Rev]

Inspector Rev to the rescue! You can thank me later.

 

http://www.cheapcustomboxes.com/custom-printed-boxes-no-minimum.html

[m-crew]

Inspector Rev to the rescue! You can thank me later.

 

http://www.cheapcustomboxes.com/custom-printed-boxes-no-minimum.html

We can always count on Rev. lol

[Rev]

We can always count on Rev. lol

Not always

[+DZ-Jay]

So, I'm curious about something. Is this "collapsing lupin" 8K ROM version of Lock 'N' Chase available? It has already been stated that it has not been found in the wild, but where did it come from? Is it in the IntellivisionLives collection?

 

-dZ.

[m-crew]

Not always

Well then sometimes !

[wolfy62]

So, I'm curious about something. Is this "collapsing lupin" 8K ROM version of Lock 'N' Chase available? It has already been stated that it has not been found in the wild, but where did it come from? Is it in the IntellivisionLives collection?

 

-dZ.

That is a great question!!!

[Games For Your Intellivision]

So, I'm curious about something. Is this "collapsing lupin" 8K ROM version of Lock 'N' Chase available? It has already been stated that it has not been found in the wild, but where did it come from? Is it in the IntellivisionLives collection?

 

-dZ.

 

It was pulled from a T-card.

[decle]

With preorders supply and demands could come close to matching and sellers would not sit on products and buyers would have a chance at buying at fair prices and not manipulated.

 

Just to be clear, price optimisation, even when it is done to maximise profit of a participant is not market manipulation. It is just rational economic behaviour, which ironically enough is a requirement for a perfectly competitive market.

 

All suppliers in a free market have the right to set the volume they wish to supply at, the market sets the price. Inherently any price at which a trade takes place is fair. A price being higher than any specific participant being willing to buy at does not make it unfair. The opposite is also true for a price being lower than a specific supplier being willing to sell at. An unfair price is one at which no trades take place.

Edited February 20, 2017 by decle

[mr_me]

How much a PCB only version of 8K Lock n Chase would cost? I think can just swap the old one I have with a box with the 8KB version. I feel that the collapsing Lupin made the game more complete. Kinda of owning uncut movie film or owning the 24KB version of DK for Colecovision that have the death animation.

You can always play LockNchase 8k through a multi-cart. The 8k version, although it adds the collapsing Lupin animation, removes the ability to stop Lupin. Not sure if anyone uses that feature, I don't remember if I did.

[m-crew]

Just to be clear, price optimisation, even when it is done to maximise profit of a participant is not market manipulation. It is just rational economic behaviour, which ironically enough is a requirement for a perfectly competitive market.

 

All suppliers in a free market have the right to set the volume they wish to supply at, the market sets the price. Inherently any price at which a trade takes place is fair. A price being higher than any specific participant being willing to supply at does not make it unfair. The opposite is also true for a price being lower than a supplier being willing to sell at. An unfair price is one at which no trades take place.

Just to be clear, price optimisation, even when it is done to maximise profit of a participant is not market manipulation. It is just rational economic behaviour, which ironically enough is a requirement for a perfectly competitive market.

 

All suppliers in a free market have the right to set the volume they wish to supply at, the market sets the price. Inherently any price at which a trade takes place is fair. A price being higher than any specific participant being willing to buy at does not make it unfair. The opposite is also true for a price being lower than a specific supplier being willing to sell at. An unfair price is one at which no trades take place.

Unless there is collusion among suppliers and producers..

Edited February 20, 2017 by m-crew

[+DZ-Jay]

 

It was pulled from a T-card.

 

Gotcha! Does anybody have a ROM copy? I'd like to check it out and see what all the fuzz is about. Is a collapsing animation really worth all this?

[decle]

 

Gotcha! Does anybody have a ROM copy? I'd like to check it out and see what all the fuzz is about. Is a collapsing animation really worth all this?

 

ROMs page on intellvision.us

[+DZ-Jay]

 

ROMs page on intellvision.us

 

Thanks!

[Games For Your Intellivision]

 

Gotcha! Does anybody have a ROM copy? I'd like to check it out and see what all the fuzz is about. Is a collapsing animation really worth all this?

 

Supposedly it has superior control. Some people beg to differ and claim the collapsing animation is the only extra benefit.

[decle]

Unless there is collusion among suppliers and producers..

 

Indeed. Or, to play devil's advocate, between buyers. Here, this would require 2 independent suppliers of boxed 8K LnC carts to fix a minimum price. We only have one distributer, SoulBuster, who is using a public auction to set the price. Complete transparency, market sets the price, nothing doing. Now if everyone on this thread got together and privately agreed not to bid more than $100, that would be market manipulation.

[+intellivotion]

Nevermind