Project Prometheus (a new ColecoVision compatible console)

[HDTV1080P]

I asked about the 2600 module and no it is not compatible.

This might mean the Expansion Module #3 ADAM computer might not work also. Since this game system has a built in OPCODE SGM, this would mean the expansion module does not work with any existing Coleco products.

 

This goes back to the question. Is the CollectorVision game system or is the Prometheus game system a better system. If both are released I would like to do a fair head to head review on the pluses and minus of both systems.

Edited May 29, 2018 by HDTV1080P

[HDTV1080P]

By definition, the Gemini Expansion module literally just read the inputs and passed output analog audio / video through the expansion bay. An HDMI console would not be able to pass the analog video out, unless it had a dedicated upscaler which would incur a lot of added cost to the project.

HDMI chipsets normally have digital upscalers and downscalers built in. You must be talking about the added cost of converting a analog NTSC signal to digital HDMI. So if the Expansion Module #1 and perhaps the Expansion Module #3 ADAM computer does not work with this product. This means only dedicated exclusive OPCODE expansion devices can be used. In someways the CollectorVision game sytem with its modern surface mount components is a better system. With properly licensing the Prometheus BIOS could be offered on the ColelctorVision game system. The CollectorVision game system also has a SD wafer drive that handles SDXC wafer cards up to 2TB in size. Games can be released on low cost SD cards at the fraction of the price of a real game cartridge.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Telivision chipsets are INPUT devices. They might as well as you say have built in upscalars for analog video signals, however that part of the circuitry is normally handled by the tuner chipset. It's why nearly all TVs contain ASIC tuner chipsets which also are capable of receiving NTSC broadcasts, whether the set enables it by default or not.

 

Game consoles and computer HDMI chipsets are OUTPUT devices and so definitely do not have teh capability to convert analog signals suych as compostie.

[HDTV1080P]

Since it appears the Prometheus game system does not work with any of the original Coleco expansion modules, I cannot see any real advantage of making a separate videogame system. If CollectorVision was interested (not sure if they are). It would make sense to have one video game system. CollectorVision could make the hardware and OPCODE could release a Prometheus BIOS firmware update for the CollectorVision game system.

Edited May 29, 2018 by HDTV1080P

[opcode]

Since it appears the Prometheus game system does not work with any of the original Coleco expansion modules, I cannot see any real advantage of making a separate videogame system. If CollectorVision was interested (not sure if they are). It would make sense to have one video game system. CollectorVision could make the hardware and OPCODE could release a Prometheus BIOS firmware update for the CollectorVision game system.

Considering that now the new normal is to turn whatever is shared with the community into public domain with no respect to the original creator and its required investment, I wouldn’t expect many future collaborations between publishers in the Colecovision scene. I foresee a future of proprietary and closely guarded hardware and software secrets. And to be honest, the simple suggestion of collaboration at this point sounds disturbingly insensitive to me, and even piss me off a bit. In other words, feel free to enjoy your FPGA system, but please discuss that in the appropriated sub forum.

 

Now let’s get back to get some new games and hardware out of the door.

 

 

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[HDTV1080P]

Now let’s get back to get some new games and hardware out of the door.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And when is this new Prometheus hardware planned to be released? It is interesting that exclusive videogames well be made for this system that are more powerful then the existing SGM games. I am still considering a Prometheus system, but the lack of support for expansion module #1 and #3 is not attractive. OPCODE their is s strong possibility that if you release this Prometheus system that people will make free Windows emulators that run exclusive Prometheus games. That is unless you use some type of encryption with copy protection for the games and videogame system.

Edited May 29, 2018 by HDTV1080P

[Andromeda Stardust]

And when is this new Prometheus hardware planned to be released? It is interesting that exclusive videogames well be made for this system that are more powerful then the existing SGM games. I am still considering a Prometheus system, but the lack of support for expansion module #1 and #3 is not attractive. OPCODE their is s strong possibility that if you release this Prometheus system that people will make free Windows emulators that run exclusive Prometheus games. That is unless you use some type of encryption with copy protection for the games and videogame system.

[HDTV1080P]

I have been a strong supporter of OPCODE Games hardware. I emailed OPCODE games about a question about the SGM, and I received a surprise response about the Prometheus.

 

quote form email received today

 

"We have the Prometheus console coming soon. Please stay tuned.

Thanks,

Opcode Games"

Edited May 30, 2018 by HDTV1080P

[phoenixdownita]

Now that would be interesting.

I've been waiting so long for some info on the Prometheus ... especially intrigued by a claimed use of an '80 "wunderkid" chipset.

I've been wanting to know the details about it since Opcode mentioned it.

 

Maybe in a few days we will get to know some of the specs.

[opcode]

Now that would be interesting.

I've been waiting so long for some info on the Prometheus ... especially intrigued by a claimed use of an '80 "wunderkid" chipset.

I've been wanting to know the details about it since Opcode mentioned it.

 

Maybe in a few days we will get to know some of the specs.

I am afraid the level of detail you will get will be limited, a general list of specs and a view of the populated board. The moment I post a programmer’s guide, the thing becomes public domain and some feel entitled to copy for profit.

 

So yeah, 3 background planes, 8000 tiles, 128 sprites on screen, a few dozen color palettes from 32k colors, FM and PCM sound and so on.

 

 

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[phoenixdownita]

I am afraid the level of detail you will get will be limited, a general list of specs and a view of the populated board. The moment I post a programmer’s guide, the thing becomes public domain and some feel entitled to copy for profit.

 

So yeah, 3 background planes, 8000 tiles, 128 sprites on screen, a few dozen color palettes from 32k colors, FM and PCM sound and so on.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But you are still planning on using that chipset you mentioned?

That chipset codename would be all, no need for a programmer's guide, just wanted to check what they were up to so long ago that piqued your interested for a CV++/CV2, there's plenty of modern solutions yet you have chosen that one .... wrt to the GFX is not a derivative of the V9938/V9958 right?

 

I guess I am asking this is not an MSX2/2+ gfx derivative, like a V9990? (well on second thought maybe it would be a good thing, just asking)

[opcode]

But you are still planning on using that chipset you mentioned?

That chipset codename would be all, no need for a programmer's guide, just wanted to check what they were up to so long ago that piqued your interested for a CV++/CV2, there's plenty of modern solutions yet you have chosen that one .... wrt to the GFX is not a derivative of the V9938/V9958 right?

 

I guess I am asking this is not an MSX2/2+ gfx derivative, like a V9990? (well on second thought maybe it would be a good thing, just asking)

Because a modern solution wouldn’t be a “Colecovision 2”, at least not in my book. I get a PC board, load it with Linux and emulators and that isn’t a CV2. A convenient player appliance maybe. Same for multi system FPGA boxes. Many out there, many more to come. Too much power, what is the point? Where is the authenticity? Again, convenient for some maybe, but where would be the retro authenticity? I just don’t see what is the point in something like the new Atari VCS other than a name in the box. That isn’t the sort of thing I would want for myself. I want something that would have actually existed in the late 80s.

You won’t get chipset names from me for the reason I explained above, the moment I list it here someone else will have the “same idea”.

And I am also not discussing other things as I don’t want to give insights away.

Prometheus has the immediate advantage right now to be the only system planned with official Super Game Module support out of the box, the only that will offer CV backward compatibility that isn’t an emulator.

 

 

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[HDTV1080P]

The Prometheus system sounds like an excellent second generation ColecoVision game system that well play dedicated exclusive game cartridges with up to 128 sprites on the screen and 32,000 colors. I hope it is a successful videogame system. I am guessing it well use the same style ColecoVision cartridge slot so that it can maintain backwards compatibility with existing cartridges.

 

While I understand why you do not like emulators since original hardware chips from the 80’s is not being used, and you feel there is too much power with a FPGA box and what is the point with all that power.

 

Software emulation of 80’s chipsets is getting to be so good that most people would not be able to tell the difference between a 1982 ColecoVision with a HDMI output when compared to a 2018 FPGA box with HDMI output that contained an actual ColecoVision cartridge slot. The advantage of having that much power in a FPGA box is that one can just issue a firmware update to emulate just about any 16 bit or 8 bit videogame system without having to purchase an entire new videogame system.

 

If the Prometheus game system is successful with awesome new next generation ColecoVision games. In the years to come there is a possibility that some programmer well approach OPCODE Games to purchase a license to emulate Prometheus games on a Windows PC and on a FPGA box with a cartridge slot. The more platforms that play Prometheus game cartridges the more videogames you well be able to sale to people.

Edited May 31, 2018 by HDTV1080P

[bobstoned]

Because a modern solution wouldnt be a Colecovision 2, at least not in my book .... Too much power, what is the point? Where is the authenticity? Again, convenient for some maybe, but where would be the retro authenticity?

I couldn't agree more with this. If I was interested in a system with cutting edge specs I'd just buy an XBox/PS4. Only the big companies can hit the limits with the current console specs. Having more restrictive limits keeps the scope of the game in check, and focuses more on good game mechanics and gameplay. I've bought and played computers/consoles since 1981 to 2018 and I'm totally bored with the obsession with 3D graphics. I still get more satisfaction out of playing Defender, Galaxian, Q*bert Gradius etc now because they're expertly designed and quick pick up and play. Even today you see people squeezing the last ounce of power out of the Commodore 64, because it's a challenge.

Edited May 31, 2018 by bobstoned

[opcode]

The Prometheus system sounds like an excellent second generation ColecoVision game system that well play dedicated exclusive game cartridges with up to 128 sprites on the screen and 32,000 colors. I hope it is a successful videogame system. I am guessing it well use the same style ColecoVision cartridge slot so that it can maintain backwards compatibility with existing cartridges.

 

While I understand why you do not like emulators since original hardware chips from the 80’s is not being used, and you feel there is too much power with a FPGA box and what is the point with all that power.

 

Software emulation of 80’s chipsets is getting to be so good that most people would not be able to tell the difference between a 1982 ColecoVision with a HDMI output when compared to a 2018 FPGA box with HDMI output that contained an actual ColecoVision cartridge slot. The advantage of having that much power in a FPGA box is that one can just issue a firmware update to emulate just about any 16 bit or 8 bit videogame system without having to purchase an entire new videogame system.

 

If the Prometheus game system is successful with awesome new next generation ColecoVision games. In the years to come there is a possibility that some programmer well approach OPCODE Games to purchase a license to emulate Prometheus games on a Windows PC and on a FPGA box with a cartridge slot. The more platforms that play Prometheus game cartridges the more videogames you well be able to sale to people.

As I said, some people may be happy with a CV player appliance, some like me won’t. Emulation works fine with most very basic hardware, but you get something as simple as a MSX2, and no emulator I know, software or hardware, can get the timings correct. They can get close in most cases, but not 100% perfect. And the more advanced and complex the original hardware, the harder to properly emulate it. Sure, some people are happy with “it runs”, personally I don’t.

And the nice thing about hobbies is that you can do things your way, not necessarily what makes more commercial sense. It is more important to reach a loyal and enthusiastic user base, even if it isn’t a largest possible base. The current geek culture may be over one year from now, so I would rather reach true CV fans that were there from the very beginning, instead of the average retro gaming “fan” that is in it because it is currently cool.

 

 

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[bobstoned]

The current geek culture may be over one year from now, so I would rather reach true CV fans that were there from the very beginning, instead of the average retro gaming “fan” that is in it because it is currently cool.

 

This is exactly what's happening now with the the new Atari console. They're simply trading on it's name and history. I hope I'm wrong and it turns out to be a great success and provide some kind of unique experience, but going by the history of projects funded on Indiegogo I find it highly unlikely, more likely there will be a great number of very disappointed customers receiving a very late and underwhelming donkey. Look at the similarities with the Chameleon, a non-working box but with a fake wooden fascia effect.

[+grips03]

Is the plan to release Prometheus in 2018? Will it have RGB or HDMI output? Will it support CV controllers? Will it be able to do voice?

[opcode]

Is the plan to release Prometheus in 2018? Will it have RGB or HDMI output? Will it support CV controllers? Will it be able to do voice?

 

 

I don't think we will release in 2018, but the plan is to show at PRGE. Output isn't decided yet. It supports CV controllers. It can do voice.

[HDTV1080P]

I would hope Prometheus would have HDMI output since 100% of all new projectors and flat panels use HDMI. Also I hope this Prometheus system can receive firmware updates by SD or USB. Otherwise any major bugs would need the videogame console sent back to OPCODE games for a BIOS change.

Edited May 31, 2018 by HDTV1080P

[opcode]

I would hope Prometheus would have HDMI output since 100% of all new projectors and flat panels use HDMI. Also I hope this Prometheus system can receive firmware updates by SD or USB. Otherwise any major bugs would need the videogame console sent back to OPCODE games for a BIOS change.

 

 

What are you talking about? This is a retro system, it just works out of the box. Have you ever seen a 80s system that required firmware updates? No OSes, no SD cards, no USB ports here. This isn't a ROM image player, this is an old school retro console.

[+grips03]

I hope RGB is possible. I'm using citrus3000psi RGB board now on CV and it is really nice.

 

Citrus3000psi used this old TI doc that provides RGB schematic

 

http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/vdp-99xx/e3/SPPA004A_9928-29_9118-28_Interface_to_Monitors.pdf

[HDTV1080P]

 

 

What are you talking about? This is a retro system, it just works out of the box. Have you ever seen a 80s system that required firmware updates? No OSes, no SD cards, no USB ports here. This isn't a ROM image player, this is an old school retro console.

And back in October of 1983 my Coleco Expansion Module #3 ADAM computer that played Supergames like Buck Rodgers had to be exchanged 3 or 4 times at least because out of the box the SmartWriter program did not work. These programs were hard coded on prom chips without a eeprom to update the Smartwriter or BIOS from a Digital Data Pack. Plus two ColecoVision cartridges do not work with the standalone ADAM computer because the BIOS is not firmware upgradable from Disk or DDP.

 

I know you do excellent quality work since I own some of the items you made, and maybe you well have a perfectly working new videogame system. However if the ADAM could have been firmware upgradable back in October of 1983 it might have saved the company from leaving the videogame business back in Jan 1985 because of all the problems at launch. Just something to think about.

Edited June 1, 2018 by HDTV1080P

[mr_me]

The Prometheus system sounds like an excellent second generation ColecoVision game system that well play dedicated exclusive game cartridges with up to 128 sprites on the screen and 32,000 colors. I hope it is a successful videogame system. I am guessing it well use the same style ColecoVision cartridge slot so that it can maintain backwards compatibility with existing cartridges.

 

While I understand why you do not like emulators since original hardware chips from the 80s is not being used, and you feel there is too much power with a FPGA box and what is the point with all that power.

 

Software emulation of 80s chipsets is getting to be so good that most people would not be able to tell the difference between a 1982 ColecoVision with a HDMI output when compared to a 2018 FPGA box with HDMI output that contained an actual ColecoVision cartridge slot. The advantage of having that much power in a FPGA box is that one can just issue a firmware update to emulate just about any 16 bit or 8 bit videogame system without having to purchase an entire new videogame system.

 

If the Prometheus game system is successful with awesome new next generation ColecoVision games. In the years to come there is a possibility that some programmer well approach OPCODE Games to purchase a license to emulate Prometheus games on a Windows PC and on a FPGA box with a cartridge slot. The more platforms that play Prometheus game cartridges the more videogames you well be able to sale to people.

If someone were to make an FPGA ay-3-8500 pong system than it is a pong system and nothing more. In fact it should be an exact replication of the original circuits without any more power or abilities. It's much different then software emulation where you need a much more powerfull computer to simulate the output of a simpler computer.

 

Programming an fpga core is more like designing an integrated circuit than writing a software program. Writing a software emulator is very complex and not easy to achieve 100% compatibility like Opcode says. FPGA hardware emulation is a straight replication of the original circuits and function. The ability to swap an FPGA "core" with that of a completely different integrated circuit is a bonus. However, if you're paying a premium for that bonus than that is something to consider.

 

The differentiation with prometheus is that Opcode is creating a new game platform. Something that would be difficult to do with fpga because the cores may not exist.

Edited June 1, 2018 by mr_me

[Andromeda Stardust]

I hope RGB is possible. I'm using citrus3000psi RGB board now on CV and it is really nice.

 

Citrus3000psi used this old TI doc that provides RGB schematic

 

http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/vdp-99xx/e3/SPPA004A_9928-29_9118-28_Interface_to_Monitors.pdf

HDMI 720p would be ideal but I'd understand if it only spported analog outputs. Perhaps a small FPGA could handle upscaling the logic?

 

I disagree with 1080p though in that hdmi is a must. While it would make it more attractive, it's not worth hd if it doubles or trples the price of the console. Also my current setup all I can support is composite, rf, or hdmi. rgb is nice for the select few with fancy upscalers or rare sets that support it, but for most folks the lowest common denomonator is composite and hdmi. I do have a tube tv still, but it only supports rf and composite. My tcl Roku 4k uhdtv supports hdmi, composite, and rf only. Svideo, component, rgb are all all dead now in terms of modern consumer devices.

[NIAD]

No matter what, it is simply amazing that almost 35 years after Coleco released the ColecoVision there are three ColecoVision compatible systems in development and it sounds very favorable that all three will be released!!! Again, this is simply amazing and is proof positive just how healthy the ColecoVision/ADAM retro community truly is thanks to EVERYONE involved.

 

Family squabbles will happen and this community has seen some dozzies (think I spelled that correctly) over the years, so let's remember that we are at our strongest when we are all working with and supporting each other... even when we may not agree with one another.

 

I do have one request for HDTV1080P.... please stop talking about firmware update!!!! Nah, just kidding!