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The fail of NES hardware/gaming video from UK outlook


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To cover the latter first, it's a matter of personal opinion sure, but seeing as I reckon I've played well over 3000 C64 titles in my lifetime, I would consider myself reasonably well informed!

 

As for the former, nope, all programmed in Japan. Even titles such as Lode Runner, Pitfall, Bungeling Bay, Spelunker etc, the NES/Famicom version was written in the Land of the Rising Sun. The first American developed title released for the NES was Paperboy, which came out (disputed) either December 1988 or January 1989.

Will Wright said he programmed the NES verison around 1:15:00 Mark of this video, probably the same thing for those other games outside of some minor coding changes

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And Austin, your post is exactly what I'm talking about. Overstated, nostalgia infused "importance". And then you make a cheap shot at the Amiga. That was far more important and relevant than the NES ever was in Europe. The NES was just a console released during a slump, not some savior handed down on a golden plate by God.

Don't even bother Zeta. You can't reason with dumb. Most of his posts are incoherent dribble. He pretty much learned video game history from watching Youtube videos. Take anything spewed from his mouth with a grain of salt.

Edited by Rev
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Don't even bother Zeta. You can't reason with dumb. Most of his posts are incoherent dribble. He pretty much learned video game history from watching Youtube videos. Take anything spewed from his mouth with a grain of salt.

Oh look at that--You managed to make a full post without gobs of emotes! Congratulations.

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Side note: did the 2600 and similar systems really have more crap games than the NES? I love NES and there are heaps of gold in that library, but let's be honest, there was a ton of crap too. That seal of approval was heavily abused. The conclusion that I draw from this is that the quality and novelty of the good games (Mario, Zelda, many many more) exceeded that of prior generations.

 

I agree, but I do not look at it as an inherently NES-specific phenomenon. Pretty much every popular platform out there has a significant portion of bad games by the end of its life, be it the NES and SMS, the 2600, the SNES and Genesis, the PS1 and PS2, or the Wii, 360 and PS3. It's just something that comes with the territory. Even less popular, more obscure platforms suffer from the same thing (I'm looking at you, Jaguar, 3DO, CD-i, Sega CD and 32X).

 

Single button, I don't think so

 

Starglider%20keyboard%20layout.jpg

 

That's fantastic and good to see. It makes perfect sense for that type of game too, given the complexity of the game. I just wish the same could be said for the loads of platformers, shooters and arcade style games released on these platforms that relegated what should be multi-button gameplay, to a single button and a stick. It makes for a cumbersome experience in games that shouldn't be cumbersome (i.e., Gryzor on the C64, R-Type on the Atari ST, Zool 2 on the Amiga, etc).

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Why did the Master System continue to do so well in Europe if everybody had moved on to 16-bit? Didn't 8-bit computers such as the Spectrum and Commodore 64 continue to be popular as well? It's not like everyone could afford an Amiga. The NES was probably just poorly marketed.

 

I reckon due to the Arcade Conversions, although they weren't all that great, it was Sega games on a Sega System and was advertised as "an arcade in the home". I know that was why I sold my C128 to buy one.

It was pretty much the first home console we'd seen in the UK since the Atari. Which made it a novelty compared to Home Computers which had a much more geeky stigma. It was much more affordable than the Amiga 500 which launched the same year, but was a huge step up from the previous 8-bit Home Computers. When the price dropped on the Amiga 500 in 1989, I sold my Master System to buy the Batman Pack, later on I got a Megadrive to play in tandem with the Amiga.

 

I do recall not seeing much about the NES on TV at the time, certainly saw a lot less of it than the Sega Machines. I did know people that had the SNES, but most of us had the Megadrive.

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A lot of the problems was that the UK wasn't a well known Video Game market, for example the EU as a Whole had around 800 million value in 1982, VS the US market which was around 18 Billion US dollars. What made it worst was around 300 Million of that 800 million total was bootleg Software/Hardware, and the UK as a whole had easier access to Chinese Knockoffs do to Hong Kong.

 

Also laws that taxed each television ownership, the so called BBC Tax added some issues that added to the cost of getting a Nintendo, and the country didn't have a developed Video Game Association for lobbing Parliament also was a serious issue, and of course the limited amount of Japanese Video goods penetrating the market in early 1980's created major concern's for Nintendo doing a full release.

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Because there weren't any pirated games at all in the US, yeah... the odd thing is, during all my time having a 2600 back in the day, and knowing a couple of other kids with one, and even then way into the 90s, I never saw a single knock off console game in the UK. Plenty of pirated computer games for sure. Didn't encounter pirated console games (mostly 2600 with some NES/Famicom) until I went to the US and Germany.

 

As for the above video, Wright says he sent the code off to Nintendo and they did the rest. What code? He doesn't specify. Could be any code. You wouldn't send code directly to Nintendo anyhow, he had to be working for someone or a publisher. The development/ownership of the NES version is credited to Hudson (even says on the title screen) who published it first in Japan. In February 1985. Would Wright have been given a Famicom dev kit and been programming it in the US in 1984? I doubt it. So I remain sceptical there.

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Would Wright have been given a Famicom dev kit and been programming it in the US in 1984? I doubt it. So I remain sceptical there.

Considering their was no official Famicom Dev Kit in 1984

 

 

As for the above video, Wright says he sent the code off to Nintendo and they did the rest. What code? He doesn't specify.

Source code which would be either Basic and or ASM

 

 

The development/ownership of the NES version is credited to Hudson (even says on the title screen) who published it first in Japan

Quite normal to have a regional partner, who would do final adjustments to the source code especially one that is running on a slightly different platform and in a different culture

 

 

I never saw a single knock off console game in the UK

Considering that Hong Kong was apart of the UK at this time

 

 

Didn't encounter pirated console games (mostly 2600 with some NES/Famicom) until I went to the US and Germany

That is global trade from above

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You can put the MSX into the same boat as the likes of the Commodore C16, BBC Micro,Acorn Electron and A8 hardware as far as platforms go in the UK.

 

Niche..

 

A few brave attempts to establish it, User Groups trying to get support going etc, but it was never a player.

 

Regarding the NES..

 

The PR statement issued by Mattel regarding them dropping the machine in the UK was that they were a toy company and had other brands to support...

 

 

N.B:It was claimed Mattel had spent some £300,000 on TV advertising alone, hoping to generate 100,000 sales of NES units as a result and didn't see a fraction of that.

 

 

However it's more due to the fact Mattel were never able to offer software support, we were stuck with the same 27 games the hardware launched with,we could only hope NTSC games would be converted to PAL.

 

Nintendo's Bruce Lowry described having a tremendous response in the US from European customers and didn't think UK customers would be left behind when it came to promotions and hoped for almost simultaneous US/UK launches and how Nintendo had been talking to UK software houses for a couple of years.

 

Also Nintendo would be spending £1 Million on in store promotion for the NES in the UK in 1988 alone.

 

So it's clear Nintendo wanted to repeat the success of the NES here in the UK as well.

 

Very surprised to hear UK contribution to gaming being scoffed at...

 

Elite, Cannon Fodder, Dungeon Keeper,GTA,Stunt Car Racer, Populous, Paradroid,Speedball 2, Tomb Raider, Xcom, Wipeout, Revs, The Sentinel, Dropzone, Wizball,Laser Squad, The Great Escape,Starglider,Lemmings, etc.

 

By the time the UK NES recieved versions of Ghosts N Goblins, green Beret,Ikari Warriors etc they were old hat and very expensive.

 

 

Mastertronic were making bold claims of 40,000 Mastersystems already in UK homes, they were pulling in £5 Million a year in revenue from it etc.

 

But people always forget, it was originally supposed to be Ariolasoft who were meant to be the UK distributor for the Master System until the deal fell through..rumour had it they were unhappy with pricing Sega wanted to set for the games, thinking they were set too high for 8 bit software..

 

So both systems had issues with original UK distribution.

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I think there are always going to be cultural differences between the US and UK.

 

We didn't embrace the NES, you guys can't understand the appeal of the ZX Spectrum.

 

Your markets driven by games on cartridge and disk, ours very much tape based for 8 bit gaming.

Edited by Lost Dragon
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"They monopolized the industry and held back the country from a rich gaming diversity."

 

There is some truth to this. Nintendo had a monopoly on video game sales in the US in the late 1980s. They controlled who could sell video games and how many different games each developer could sell. They tried to prevent developers from publishing on other systems and retailers from selling other systems. Because NES developers were limited by how many of their titles would get published they just did more of the same rather than risk one of their rations on something new and different. The developers that partnered with Nintendo didn't care, with less competition their games were guaranteed to sell. The consumers were hurt as they got a lot of similar side scrolling platform games. That's why there are laws against this anti-competitive behaviour.

 

I was in high school in the later 1980s. I don't remember much or any talk about the NES. Getting a computer and pirating games seemed more practical. The NES was for children who were too young for the computers of the day.

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I can't comprehend why people here are judging the systems on their graphics qualities (many people still play their 2600, just saying). On the MSX, we had some ported ZX-Spectrum games and the where really fun to play. As an MSX owner, I could easily live without a Nintendo 'saving the industry', considering the quality of the Konami MSX games. Or where those games funded by NES Konami sales? :)

 

Later we got an amiga, and while graphics and sound where great, my fondest memories come from the MSX.

 

I think in the end, we all love what we grew up with.

Edited by roland p
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I can't comprehend why people here are judging the systems on their graphics qualities (many people still play their 2600, just saying). On the MSX, we had some ported ZX-Spectrum games and the where really fun to play. As an MSX owner, I could easily live without a Nintendo 'saving the industry', considering the quality of the Konami MSX games. Or where those games funded by NES Konami sales? :)

 

Later we got an amiga, and while graphics and sound where great, my fondest memories come from the MSX.

 

I think in the end, we all love what we grew up with.

 

The issue is that a lot of people here had IBM, Apples, Atari, and C64 computers which compared to the Spectrum is mind blowing

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I'm an American who never saw the appeal of the NES. I thought it was horrible, for several reasons.

 

For one, I was already 16-bit gaming on an ST, and to me NES games looked bad, and had terrible colors by comparison. They all felt like a step backwards

 

Second, Nintendo change the way games were played. Before the NES, if you hung out with friends and played videogames, it would usually be 3 lives and you're out, pass the controller to the next person. The Super Mario games made earning bonus lives so easy that people would often have dozens, and then there was unlimited continues. What this meant is one person ended up dominating the console with super long playtime, while everyone else twiddled their thumbs. I soon began to equate playing NES with friends to sheer boredom, and would start opting to stay home instead. And I used to like to hang out and play games before that.

 

Lastly, it suddenly seemed like every game needed to be a side-scrolling platformer after NES- a play style that overstayed its welcome. IMO

 

I know lots of people look fondly on that system. But I have no fondness for it at all, lol.

Edited by zzip
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I'm an American who never saw the appeal of the NES. I thought it was horrible, for several reasons.

 

For one, I was already 16-bit gaming on an ST, and to me NES games looked bad, and had terrible colors by comparison. They all felt like a step backwards

 

Second, Nintendo change the way games were played. Before the NES, if you hung out with friends and played videogames, it would usually be 3 lives and you're out, pass the controller to the next person. The Super Mario games made earning bonus lives so easy that people would often have dozens, and then there was unlimited continues. What this meant is one person ended up dominating the console with super long playtime, while everyone else twiddled their thumbs. I soon began to equate playing NES with friends to sheer boredom, and would start opting to stay home instead. And I used to like to hang out and play games before that.

 

Lastly, it suddenly seemed like every game needed to be a side-scrolling platformer after NES- a play style that overstayed its welcome. IMO

 

I know lots of people look fondly on that system. But I have no fondness for it at all, lol.

And that's the problem really. The Amiga and ST represented an archaic, almost backwards, devolution in game design. Programmers and players were still stuck in the mentality that it was 1984 and that those types of games were applicable in the modern era. Seriously, single button joysticks in the early 1990's was something that Amiga commercials in the U.K. touted, lel.

 

With the NES, not only did we get the platformer but also genres such as the JRPG, the Action-Adventure game, the Action RPG, the visual novel, puzzle platformer and puzzle action games as well.

 

Oh and Strategy And tactical RPGs like Fire Emblem.

 

 

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Edited by empsolo
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Also Super Mario Brothers and other 2 player games like it alternates between players after you either beat a level or die.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Not to mention all the 2 player co-op games such as Contra, Jackal, Double Dragon 2, etc. I can't really argue with someone not liking the NES. It's all subjective. But the reasons that he offered are pretty bad.

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ST and Amiga offering a backwards step in terms of game design?

 

Things like Captive, Carrier Command, Dungeon Master, Hunter, Starglider 2, Midwinter 1 and 2

,Populous..the whole God game scenario..Damocles..open world gaming..

 

Simulator games from Microprose that required full use of the keyboard..

 

 

Amiga titles like Interceptor etc..

 

Plus coin op conversions like Strider,which were far closer to the arcade version then anything the 8bits could offer..

 

Reading US version of events is like reading an alternative version of history.

 

Did the Amiga really have such little impact in the USA?

 

I know Street Fighter 2 clones struggled on Amiga due to 1 button controllers and characters seemed to lack a sense of weight,but really surprised by some of the comments regarding the era i'm reading on here.

 

The SNES and Genesis had a good few games converted from ST/Amiga and suffered somewhat in the case of the simulations from Microprose etc due to Genesis pad only having the ABC buttons etc.

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ST and Amiga offering a backwards step in terms of game design?

 

Things like Captive, Carrier Command, Dungeon Master, Hunter, Starglider 2, Midwinter 1 and 2

,Populous..the whole God game scenario..Damocles..open world gaming..

 

Simulator games from Microprose that required full use of the keyboard..

 

 

Amiga titles like Interceptor etc..

 

Plus coin op conversions like Strider,which were far closer to the arcade version then anything the 8bits could offer..

 

Reading US version of events is like reading an alternative version of history.

 

Did the Amiga really have such little impact in the USA?

 

I know Street Fighter 2 clones struggled on Amiga due to 1 button controllers and characters seemed to lack a sense of weight,but really surprised by some of the comments regarding the era i'm reading on here.

 

The SNES and Genesis had a good few games converted from ST/Amiga and suffered somewhat in the case of the simulations from Microprose etc due to Genesis pad only having the ABC buttons etc.

The Amiga flopped harder here than a fat guy at a public swimming pool. It amounted to no more than control over a mere 2.5% of the computer market in the USA at its height.

 

 

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Appreciate the info on just how badly the Amiga did in the USA.

 

As an ST owner during that era, I grew used to ST versions appearing after Amiga version..

 

Defender Of The Crown etc or not at all...Eye Of The Beholder, but was under the (false) impression Amiga was doing ok, not great, but ok in the States.

 

Explains why so much UK home grown software means nothing to so many outside of our little bubble of a games industry.

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The UK gaming industry was responsible for a lot of classic games. But, as said, sadly many of them are not as well known as they should be outside of Europe. However there are two genres we can really lay claim to kicking the ball in starting: sandbox environments (Elite, Mercenary, and then eventually leading to GTA) and isometric viewpoints (Ant Attack and then Knight Lore).

 

 

As an ST owner during that era, I grew used to ST versions appearing after Amiga version..

 

Which is a bit odd considering so many Amiga versions were based on an ST original.

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Appreciate the info on just how badly the Amiga did in the USA.

 

As an ST owner during that era, I grew used to ST versions appearing after Amiga version..

 

Defender Of The Crown etc or not at all...Eye Of The Beholder, but was under the (false) impression Amiga was doing ok, not great, but ok in the States.

 

Explains why so much UK home grown software means nothing to so many outside of our little bubble of a games industry.

The ST never faired any better. The market share for Atari's 16 bit line hovered around 1.5-2.5%

 

The reason was because the C64 and Commodore had badly burned the American market as a result of the Price War with Texas Instruments. No computer shop with a reputation worth spit was willing to take a chance on anything Atari or Commodore branded after Jack Tremiel left them high and dry during the price war.

 

 

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Edited by empsolo
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Also Super Mario Brothers and other 2 player games like it alternates between players after you either beat a level or die.

 

 

When there are like 4 people hanging out, and two dominate the NES because they racked up 25 bonus lives, it is still boring for the other two people.

 

And that's the problem really. The Amiga and ST represented an archaic, almost backwards, devolution in game design. Programmers and players were still stuck in the mentality that it was 1984 and that those types of games were applicable in the modern era. Seriously, single button joysticks in the early 1990's was something that Amiga commercials in the U.K. touted, lel.

 

With the NES, not only did we get the platformer but also genres such as the JRPG, the Action-Adventure game, the Action RPG, the visual novel, puzzle platformer and puzzle action games as well.

 

Considering that The NES flagship SMB titles are derived from Donkey Kong (1981) and Mario Brothers (1983), saying the ST and Amiga are stuck in 1984 is hilarious!

 

I was playing lots of RPGs and strategy and god games on the ST. Dungeon Master, Bards Tale, the Ultimas, Phantasie, the SSI AD&D games, Civilization, Populous, Sim City, Railroad Tycoon. Actual 3D games like Starglider II, Many of them 8-bits just could not run. And many of those game concepts did not exist in 1984.

 

Plus coin op conversions like Strider,which were far closer to the arcade version then anything the 8bits could offer..

 

Reading US version of events is like reading an alternative version of history.

 

Did the Amiga really have such little impact in the USA?

 

I know Street Fighter 2 clones struggled on Amiga due to 1 button controllers and characters seemed to lack a sense of weight,but really surprised by some of the comments regarding the era i'm reading on here.

 

The SNES and Genesis had a good few games converted from ST/Amiga and suffered somewhat in the case of the simulations from Microprose etc due to Genesis pad only having the ABC buttons etc.

 

Unlike today, the console and computer games market were almost completely separate from each other back then. They'd get almost completely different games. You could be immersed in one and ignorant of what was happening in the other. And it's safe to say there were far more NES gamers than Amiga/ST gamers.

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When there are like 4 people hanging out, and two dominate the NES because they racked up 25 bonus lives, it is still boring for the other two people.

Except, you had the 4 score adapter for 4 player action for a bunch of games. My cousin had it for his copy of Bomberman ii for instance.

 

 

Considering that The NES flagship SMB titles are derived from Donkey Kong (1981) and Mario Brothers (1983), saying the ST and Amiga are stuck in 1984 is hilarious!

Except Super Mario Bros is an evolution of gameplay. The utilization of things like a second button for run and fire as well as hold that in conjunction with an action button. You know advancements in QOL that make gameplay smoother. Whereas for Amiga platformers it's generally pushing up because you need to fit all actions to a single button joystick and/or keyboard.

 

I was playing lots of RPGs and strategy and god games on the ST. Dungeon Master, Bards Tale, the Ultimas, Phantasie, the SSI AD&D games, Civilization, Populous, Sim City, Railroad Tycoon. Actual 3D games like Starglider II, Many of them 8-bits just could not run. And many of those game concepts did not exist in 1984.

The NES has these games as well. From the Wizardry series to the ultima games to space sims like Star Luster. From the AD&D games by SSI to early 3d combat games like Battle Tank to one of the early FPS's in Bandai's Space Shadow that utilized a light gun with a built in Dpad for movement on screen.

 

 

 

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Edited by empsolo
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