Coleco strong-arming homebrew publishers and fan sites

[+GoldenWheels]

This thread and the Chameleon thread should be novelized. I can't keep up!

[Northcoastgamer]

[opcode]

I don't want to keep fuelling this but I would like to clarify a few things. The whole point of this thread isn't to say we homebrewers are entitled to anything. Rather, that a fan page was taken down for posting pictures of homebrew games.

Coleco knew the creators of the content since they have or are still working with us homebrewers at some point, and yet the filled complains against the fan page.

Yeah, it was all handled in a very unprofessional way that makes me question the utter motives for such act, but I digress.

I was never contacted about any concerns regarding the use of the logo until two weeks ago when the holder contacted my wife via her personal FB, although we had talked via email many times, as recently as last year. She was requested to provide records of royalties payment and a copy of licensing agreement. That is right, a copy of the agreement. I said I would contact the brand owner and talk to him, and if he had issues with me using it I would refrain of any further use. I did send the email and he never replied until last Friday.

 

Just to state, do what you want with that.

[TPR]

Setting the last two pages of interesting discussion aside (I feel like someone should start a separate thread for this) let's not lose sight of something:

Coleco is using materials provided by a known software pirate, someone who has admitted to trying to stir up problems with the ColecoVision Homebrew community and has been banned from not only AtariAge but just about every other RetroGaming community online for his destructive behavior. Coleco is using his words as a defense against someone who is absolutely showing support to the Homebrew community and arguably had given more exposure to the ColecoVision than Coleco themselves!

Take a look again at the image that was posted:

That's clearly a screen shot of the take-down notice from Facebook that Juice received. Look where it says "card" under "7 messages." If I had to guess card is probably short for "Cardillo" which means he is communicating directly with Juice or someone who has direct contact with him.

While this may be speculation, it seems to be pretty clear. I don't know about the rest of you but I cannot give a single penny to someone who is in communication with someone like Juice or would even consider using material from him as a vehicle for defense in this scenario.

[newcoleco]

This thread and the Chameleon thread should be novelized. I can't keep up!

You are not alone to feel that way. Maybe someone will do a podcast on the subject.

 

Sometimes, the copyrights laws baffled me. Have you heard this case of the song Happy Birthday that many won't sing anymore, especially in restaurants? It's ridiculous.

 

(fun fact?)

I remember John Dondzila in the year 2000 told me that DACMAN wasn't my game and I shouldn't put a copyrights symbol on it. At first, I was angry because I felt being told that my codes are not mine. But, that's why the fixed version ( DACMAN v1.3 ) do not have the copyrights symbol.

 

My games, files and cartridges, can be found for all the fans to enjoy. I've even said in my letter a few weeks ago that I'm ok with people making their own cartridges, but not to exploit others.

And if what I do or say is damaging the homebrew scene or damaging the video game market somehow, I want to know.

 

I wish all companies understand that we are not rivals or competitors, but fans who just like to have a bit of fun.

And I wish all issues get resolved nicely, for the entire CV homebrew scene, and forever... not just for these particular games in this particular conflict.

 

Contact me on Twitter @DanielBienvenu

 

Note: Somehow, I'm having issues loading the forums properly.

[Keatah]

This cardillo guy makes me willing to develop porn games for coleco...

 

Every game console needs games about boobs and butts, blood and guts.. So to all you homebrew devs out there get going!

[Flojomojo]

Every game console needs games about boobs and butts, blood and guts.

Smurf Rescue has it all!

[Keatah]

As much as I have to have everything Colecovision, I'll not be purchasing anything with ties to Coleco Holding from this point on.

 

Well, yeh, it's not real Colecovision stuff. But homebrews are, they're simply 3rd party games.

[retroillucid]

We're doing alot more original games since awhile now, just saying

And we're also focusing on making more of those too

 

While it's true we are also doing ports and stuff like that

I'm not going to get rich out of this

If a company doesn't like we're doing a port of their game(s)

They can always contact us

 

 

*dropping mic

[DuggerVideoGames]

Smurf Rescue has it all!

Grass kills. You get high and fall off of cliffs. Tear off Smurfette's dress! What a mothersmurfing smurfin' good smurfin' time!

[bpatte02]

Perhaps you could start a super secret BBS and start selling colecovision stuff underground. A retro dark web of sorts. As the great Henry Winkler once said, "What Mama don't know, can't hurt her."

[jblenkle]

There certainly are a lot of comments and opinions here...but to me, this is what it boils down to. The CV is 30+ years old now. I really don't care about copyrights or trademarks on the name at this point in time. The CV homebrew community has been sailing along for years now -- thriving and with no problems. Suddenly, some idiot decides he's going to take over the name Coleco and ColecoVision and wants a say in everything that's happening. Yet the new "Coleco" has done absolutely nothing as far as producing new games or equipment. They are riding on the hard work of others like Opcode, Collectorvision and Team Pixelboy which existed before the new so-called Coleco.

 

Do they really expect the homebrew community to welcome them with open arms especially when they start trying to dictate what the homebrew community is doing? All they've done is stir up a hornet's nest of anger and resentment and personally I think they've chosen the wrong community to mess with.

 

When I heard there was a "new" Coleco several years ago, I had a lot of misgivings even then. They aren't and never will be the Coleco of the 80s. All the angst they are causing now proves it.

[TPR]

There certainly are a lot of comments and opinions here...but to me, this is what it boils down to. The CV is 30+ years old now. I really don't care about copyrights or trademarks on the name at this point in time. The CV homebrew community has been sailing along for years now -- thriving and with no problems. Suddenly, some idiot decides he's going to take over the name Coleco and ColecoVision and wants a say in everything that's happening. Yet the new "Coleco" has done absolutely nothing as far as producing new games or equipment. They are riding on the hard work of others like Opcode, Collectorvision and Team Pixelboy which existed before the new so-called Coleco.

 

Do they really expect the homebrew community to welcome them with open arms especially when they start trying to dictate what the homebrew community is doing? All they've done is stir up a hornet's nest of anger and resentment and personally I think they've chosen the wrong community to mess with.

 

Yep. This 100% completely agree! And when they come along and try to step on the toes of people who are actually developing software and hardware for the system or people who are helping spread the word about the community on their own dime, they can f**k right off. Especially when a lot of this seems to come down to jealousy wrapped with some petty legal BS excuses. I think this has a lot more to do with Chris Cardillo not liking the fact that I have 25,000 people on our ColecoVision page commenting, sharing, and liking stuff we talk about, but we talk about things like homebrew games developed on the classic platform and choose not to care about or mention their fake retrogaming expo or stupid Rainbow Brite games.

 

IMO that's really what's going on here.

[Swami]

FYI, someone said Coleco had taken down the Donkey Kong from the Expo site, but if you scroll down to the bottom, he's still there along with the the frogger and cabbage patch kid.

[Keatah]

So why didn't a homebrewer or hobbyist or even "collective of the community" take up the name themselves? And for they could then sell licenses for $1.00 just to keep the paperwork active and covered.

[Flojomojo]

It occurs to me that the subject of this thread is pretty silly. ColecoTM isn't "strong-arming" anyone, because it doesn't have any arms, strong or otherwise.

 

I'm not certain what they bring to the table. From some old business theory:

 

In 1959, French and Raven described five bases of power:

1. Legitimate – This comes from the belief that a person has the formal right to make demands, and to expect others to be compliant and obedient.
2. Reward – This results from one person's ability to compensate another for compliance.
3. Expert – This is based on a person's high levels of skill and knowledge.
4. Referent – This is the result of a person's perceived attractiveness, worthiness and right to others' respect.
5. Coercive – This comes from the belief that a person can punish others for noncompliance.

Six years later, Raven added an extra power base:

1. Informational – This results from a person's ability to control the information that others need to accomplish something.

Which of these types of power can ColecoTM exert over the retro gaming community?

If you said, "none of the above," I'd agree.

 

FYI, someone said Coleco had taken down the Donkey Kong from the Expo site, but if you scroll down to the bottom, he's still there along with the the frogger and cabbage patch kid.

 

Yep. And there's a smaller one on the ticket purchasing site.

 

 

 

[retroillucid]

So why didn't a homebrewer or hobbyist or even "collective of the community" take up the name themselves? And for they could then sell licenses for $1.00 just to keep the paperwork active and covered.

Because we're not going to pay a dime for a logo

Simple as this

I would just rather just use the mention: For Colecovision using simple fonts

[Omega-TI]

Just out out curiosity, is there a dedicated gamer on here who is also a lawyer? If so, maybe the community could all band together to shut out people who act like dictators or leeches? How? A few ideas...

 

1) Create a new name/monicker

2) Register it

3) Let all hobbyists in the community know which platform the games under the new name are for.

4) Produce & advertise all new free or even for profit games under that monicker.

5) Be selective on whom gets a one-time license ($1.00 (per game title) to use the new monicker.

 

This could effectively shut out leeches or people who take advantage of, or try to control the good faith contributions of programmers and other hobbyists in the community.

 

Would it be worth it? I dunno. Would it irritate those who disrupt the community if they lost the control over others they seek? Probably. Would the community gain from such a move? Again, I do not know, it's just an idea.

 

I hate to see the hobbyist and gaming community disrupted by the actions of a few, or one. Sometimes a proactive approach to do an end-run around a problem can be justified.

[retroillucid]

I've noticed that homebrewers very rarely deal with original IP... they typically make ports of old arcade games or other existing properties, and they just as typically don't get the legal rights to these properties. I'm guessing that whoever made the ColecoVision port of Kung Fu Master didn't secure the license from Irem (or its successor), so their product is technically illegal.

 

Here's the thing, though. It's illegal for him to make an unlicensed port of Kung Fu Master. It may even be illegal for him to use the ColecoVision logo on the front of the box. It's not illegal for him to make software for the ColecoVision hardware, since the patent has almost certainly expired. Chris Cardillo seems to be under the impression that he can force ColecoVision game designers to purchase a license to make software for the system, but they're not legally obligated to do this. They may have to add a disclaimer on the title screen to stress that they're not affiliated with Coleco, and they'll probably have to remove the official ColecoVision logo from the box, but they can still make the games. They don't have to pay Cardillo a cent for the privilege.

 

Tell me an easy way to obtain liscences

 

Everytime I've contacted companies about getting a liscence, they didn't even bother to respond

Except for Atari wich granted us a liscence for our Pong boxset

[opcode]

Just out out curiosity, is there a dedicated gamer on here who is also a lawyer? If so, maybe the community could all band together to shut out people who act like dictators or leeches? How? A few ideas...

 

1) Create a new name/monicker

2) Register it

3) Let all hobbyists in the community know which platform the games under the new name are for.

4) Produce & advertise all new free or even for profit games under that monicker.

5) Be selective on whom gets a one-time license ($1.00 (per game title) to use the new monicker.

 

This could effectively shut out leeches or people who take advantage of, or try to control the good faith contributions of programmers and other hobbyists in the community.

 

Would it be worth it? I dunno. Would it irritate those who disrupt the community if they lost the control over others they seek? Probably. Would the community gain from such a move? Again, I do not know, it's just an idea.

 

I hate to see the hobbyist and gaming community disrupted by the actions of a few, or one. Sometimes a proactive approach to do an end-run around a problem can be justified.

That is exactly what I have been proposing. We (publishers) have two new hardware in development, it would be a good idea if we could come up with a new unified platform. Both hardware should have all our bases covered. No more outside disruption.

[TPR]

I've moved the Homebrew IP discussion to this thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/265887-colecovision-homebrews-ip-rights-discussion/

 

Please feel free to continue it there! Thank you!

[TPR]

I don't want to keep fuelling this but I would like to clarify a few things. The whole point of this thread isn't to say we homebrewers are entitled to anything. Rather, that a fan page was taken down for posting pictures of homebrew games.

Coleco knew the creators of the content since they have or are still working with us homebrewers at some point, and yet the filled complains against the fan page.

Yeah, it was all handled in a very unprofessional way that makes me question the utter motives for such act, but I digress.

I was never contacted about any concerns regarding the use of the logo until two weeks ago when the holder contacted my wife via her personal FB, although we had talked via email many times, as recently as last year. She was requested to provide records of royalties payment and a copy of licensing agreement. That is right, a copy of the agreement. I said I would contact the brand owner and talk to him, and if he had issues with me using it I would refrain of any further use. I did send the email and he never replied until last Friday.

 

Just to state, do what you want with that.

 

All issues that I think may have gotten lost in the last few pages. That along with what seems that Coleco is communicating with a known software/hardware pirate and retrogaming community outcast as a way to defend themselves to the rest of the homebrew community for their reprehensible actions.

 

I should also note once again that all of this could have been avoided had Coleco Holdings LLC simply just sent the Facebook retraction email. But they didn't. They still want to claim somehow that we are responsible for software created by other parties. It's just crazy. I cannot imagine there is a thread of respect from the retrogaming community left for Coleco Holdings LLC. At this point they are better off reaching out to the Rainbow Brite and cosplay communities for support because I think we are all done with them.

[DuggerVideoGames]

 

All issues that I think may have gotten lost in the last few pages. That along with what seems that Coleco is communicating with a known software/hardware pirate and retrogaming community outcast as a way to defend themselves to the rest of the homebrew community for their reprehensible actions.

 

I should also note once again that all of this could have been avoided had Coleco Holdings LLC simply just sent the Facebook retraction email. But they didn't. They still want to claim somehow that we are responsible for software created by other parties. It's just crazy. I cannot imagine there is a thread of respect from the retrogaming community left for Coleco Holdings LLC. At this point they are better off reaching out to the Rainbow Brite and cosplay communities for support because I think we are all done with them.

Damn right. They burned their bridges.

[+5-11under]

Setting the last two pages of interesting discussion aside (I feel like someone should start a separate thread for this) let's not lose sight of something:

 

Coleco is using materials provided by a known software pirate, someone who has admitted to trying to stir up problems with the ColecoVision Homebrew community and has been banned from not only AtariAge but just about every other RetroGaming community online for his destructive behavior. Coleco is using his words as a defense against someone who is absolutely showing support to the Homebrew community and arguably had given more exposure to the ColecoVision than Coleco themselves!

 

Take a look again at the image that was posted:

IMG_5969.JPG

That's clearly a screen shot of the take-down notice from Facebook that Juice received. Look where it says "card" under "7 messages." If I had to guess card is probably short for "Cardillo" which means he is communicating directly with Juice or someone who has direct contact with him.

 

While this may be speculation, it seems to be pretty clear. I don't know about the rest of you but I cannot give a single penny to someone who is in communication with someone like Juice or would even consider using material from him as a vehicle for defense in this scenario.

 

Juice and Cardillo, eh?

Birds of a feather, fock together.

[Northcoastgamer]