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Bought out GameGavel.com, need community input.


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Whats not true? Dude don't even go there. I've been a member over 15 years now. There is no such thing these days as seller protection. Sellers get is shoved up there ass every which way. You honestly think ebay/paypal/piko is going to incorporate a better system for buyers to screw sellers worse than they already can. Go home. You said so yourself YOU WON!

 

Now take some scummy buyer and put them in your shoes and after weeks of claims and phone calls the same outcome BUYER WINS, ALWAYS!

 

Let me repeat this again just in case you missed it. YOU WON! You will always win.

 

No, I didn't win. I spent probably five hours of my life trying to get back $80 and return shipping. That's not a win and there is no reason it should have taken more than a single phone call or e-mail, especially when everything was right there in the messages between myself and the seller. Had I not been so persistent, I would never have received anything back.

 

I'm not sure when the last time you dealt with Ebay or PayPal customer service was, but they now split their customer service function between the two companies but handle it all out of the same boiler room in the Philippines. The reps have no ability to deal with any situation outside of the pre-drafted decision tree and they are not empowered to actually authorize a refund if the seller has nothing in their account. It's horrible and no buyer should ever have to go through that when the seller was 100% at fault. You can complain all you want about being a victim of bad buyers, but if Game Gavel doesn't have at least a similar level of buyer protection to Ebay and frankly, better and more responsive customer service, it will be DOA.

 

As a seller, you are running a small business. There are certain costs in running a business and one of them is that on occasion, you will lose money on a transaction due to a problematic customer. If you're not prepared to deal with that, you should get out of business for yourself and shift the risk back to an employer.

Edited by bojay1997
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Basically it would give you an embedding code that you paste in an HTML page or HTML part of a CMS, and your items would pop up as a grid or list. It will have a "Powered by Gamegavel.com" branding but they could pay a professional business membership to remove that.

 

Paypal already offers this.

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No, I didn't win. I spent probably five hours of my life trying to get back $80 and return shipping. That's not a win and there is no reason it should have taken more than a single phone call or e-mail, especially when everything was right there in the messages between myself and the seller. Had I not been so persistent, I would never have received anything back.

 

I'm not sure when the last time you dealt with Ebay or PayPal customer service was, but they now split their customer service function between the two companies but handle it all out of the same boiler room in the Philippines. The reps have no ability to deal with any situation outside of the pre-drafted decision tree and they are not empowered to actually authorize a refund if the seller has nothing in their account. It's horrible and no buyer should ever have to go through that when the seller was 100% at fault. You can complain all you want about being a victim of bad buyers, but if Game Gavel doesn't have at least a similar level of buyer protection to Ebay and frankly, better and more responsive customer service, it will be DOA.

 

As a seller, you are running a small business. There are certain costs in running a business and one of them is that on occasion, you will lose money on a transaction due to a problematic customer. If you're not prepared to deal with that, you should get out of business for yourself and shift the risk back to an employer.

 

You're pissing me off now. I spent 6 fucking weeks between ebay, paypal, and 3 different post offices, USPS, Germany, and Brazil, stopping some shit heads scam who set up a forwarding address from Germany to Brazil and claimed package was lost and tried to get me to send a replacement. His only option was to refuse the package after he knew I had tracked the package via 3 different post offices but I still lost international shipping I paid!

 

I had someone in NY open a claim because they did not receive the item in which I spent 2 weeks tracking the package and using google maps only to find out they had a special request set-up w/USPS to deliver to a barber shop below their apartment. After researching I found the barber shop was closed down and there was no way in hell that package was going to ever get delivered that way. I managed to do a package intercept after they got a refund before they could scoop the package up from the post office.

 

I can go all day. So why don't we make it easier for scammers to screw us over so YOU can have a pleasant experience EVERY time. You fail to realize making claims easier for you also makes it easier for scammers and thieves. You made an international purchase in which you AGREED to the sellers return policy which included you pay return shipping. If the seller had no return policy set-up you could easily have forced them to supply a return shipping label through paypal or you would have won the case, got a refund, and kept the item, FACT!

 

It sounds to me like you just need more education on how to manipulate.... err I mean make use of your "buyer advantage" you already have.

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You're pissing me off now. I spent 6 fucking weeks between ebay, paypal, and 3 different post offices, USPS, Germany, and Brazil, stopping some shit heads scam who set up a forwarding address from Germany to Brazil and claimed package was lost and tried to get me to send a replacement. His only option was to refuse the package after he knew I had tracked the package via 3 different post offices but I still lost international shipping I paid!

 

I had someone in NY open a claim because they did not receive the item in which I spent 2 weeks tracking the package and using google maps only to find out they had a special request set-up w/USPS to deliver to a barber shop below their apartment. After researching I found the barber shop was closed down and there was no way in hell that package was going to ever get delivered that way. I managed to do a package intercept after they got a refund before they could scoop the package up from the post office.

 

I can go all day. So why don't we make it easier for scammers to screw us over so YOU can have a pleasant experience EVERY time. You fail to realize making claims easier for you also makes it easier for scammers and thieves. You made an international purchase in which you AGREED to the sellers return policy which included you pay return shipping. If the seller had no return policy set-up you could easily have forced them to supply a return shipping label through paypal or you would have won the case, got a refund, and kept the item, FACT!

 

It sounds to me like you just need more education on how to manipulate.... err I mean make use of your "buyer advantage" you already have.

 

Actually, the seller agreed to pay return shipping but when he received the items that were damaged because he didn't use proper packaging material and realized that were no longer salable, he simply said "I'm not paying return shipping". He also paid for the refund on the item price to me using an e-check with insufficient funds. So, no, I didn't breach any of his self imposed policies and under Ebay's refund policy I was entitled to a full refund of the item price and shipping plus return shipping. If the scammer situation is so bad for you, maybe it's time that you found another line of business that is actually less risky and more profitable. I suspect the truth is that like many sellers here and elsewhere who complain about Ebay buyer scammers constantly, the actual number of incidents you have dealt with is minuscule compared to the volume of sales you do and that as bad as you claim Ebay is, it is a very lucrative market for you. Ebay understands that without buyers who feel secure in making purchases, their whole business model falls apart. That's why they have pushed buyer protection so aggressively and why they are adding new protections including a customer service concierge and guaranteed shipping. There is nothing manipulative or scummy about protecting consumers from bad sellers.

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Actually, the seller agreed to pay return shipping but when he received the items that were damaged because he didn't use proper packaging material and realized that were no longer salable, he simply said "I'm not paying return shipping". He also paid for the refund on the item price to me using an e-check with insufficient funds. So, no, I didn't breach any of his self imposed policies and under Ebay's refund policy I was entitled to a full refund of the item price and shipping plus return shipping. If the scammer situation is so bad for you, maybe it's time that you found another line of business that is actually less risky and more profitable. I suspect the truth is that like many sellers here and elsewhere who complain about Ebay buyer scammers constantly, the actual number of incidents you have dealt with is minuscule compared to the volume of sales you do and that as bad as you claim Ebay is, it is a very lucrative market for you. Ebay understands that without buyers who feel secure in making purchases, their whole business model falls apart. That's why they have pushed buyer protection so aggressively and why they are adding new protections including a customer service concierge and guaranteed shipping. There is nothing manipulative or scummy about protecting consumers from bad sellers.

 

 

Dude like I said learn how to use your buyers advantage. If the seller agreed to pay return shipping done. You make one call to ebay/pp tell them read the messages and case is closed. It is your fault for allowing him to pay you by some e-check. Paypal auto refunds, simple. You really lack knowledge of paypal.

 

I sell very little on ebay these days. I no longer ship outside the US and Canada. The scams have killed my desire to sell on that site and internationally. It sounds like maybe you should stop buying on ebay since you have so many problems. FYI good luck buying shit when sellers stop selling :) There is a reason you find so many shitty sellers on ebay, all the good ones left already!

 

Sure there is nothing wrong with protecting buyers from scummy sellers. What about the sellers??? You want sellers to just take it in the ass so you can have a perfect buyers world. What's your ebay username so I can block you right now.

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As a buyer, there's no reason for me to go somewhere where I have less protection and far less selection, along with a far smaller market that likely keeps prices higher.

 

Without buyers, there's no reason for sellers to go there.

 

The 800 lb gorilla has the market by the banana and I don't think there's anything anyone can do about it.

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Dude like I said learn how to use your buyers advantage. If the seller agreed to pay return shipping done. You make one call to ebay/pp tell them read the messages and case is closed. It is your fault for allowing him to pay you by some e-check. Paypal auto refunds, simple. You really lack knowledge of paypal.

 

I sell very little on ebay these days. I no longer ship outside the US and Canada. The scams have killed my desire to sell on that site and internationally. It sounds like maybe you should stop buying on ebay since you have so many problems. FYI good luck buying shit when sellers stop selling :) There is a reason you find so many shitty sellers on ebay, all the good ones left already!

 

Sure there is nothing wrong with protecting buyers from scummy sellers. What about the sellers??? You want sellers to just take it in the ass so you can have a perfect buyers world. What's your ebay username so I can block you right now.

Again, that's not how it works and it appears you are the one who doesn't understand how the very services you are railing against actually work. The seller made very specific comments that the reps saw in the messages promising to refund shipping. The rep literally had no power to do a manual shipping refund and multiple reps and supervisors told me so. The manual refund has to be handled by the back office and ultimately, they can just ignore the issue because there is no way to speak directly with the people who can actually force the manual refund. Also, a seller can choose how to make a refund. E-check with a delayed payment date is something Paypal and Ebay allows sellers to use for refunds because of the risk of an overdraft otherwise. Paypal and Ebay don't automatically snatch funds from their bank account if the seller makes it appear as though they are honoring a refund.

 

I actually buy a ton on Ebay and as I said, out of literally hundreds of transactions in the past year, I've had maybe five total that didn't go well. Only one required intervention by Paypal and Ebay and that wasn't smooth as I described. Those seem like pretty good odds and show that for the most part, the improvements Ebay has made in recent years are working. I also believe that in almost 20 years of buying on Ebay, there are more and better sellers on there now than ever before. Your belief about Ebay's tough stance on selling scams impacting the number or quality of sellers isn't borne out in my experience, but you're entitled to your opinion.

 

I wouldn't worry about blocking me as what little I know about what you sell makes it very unlikely that I would be buying from you as you don't exactly deal in higher end stuff. I believe Ebay should treat buyers and sellers fairly, but ultimately, I understand the need to lean heavily in favor of buyers given the high volume of sales and the limitations on the customer service resources Ebay and Paypal can deploy while still maintaining a profit. I don't believe sellers should "take it in the ass" whatever that means, but as between buyer and seller, like any business transaction, the seller is the more appropriate party to take a financial loss if something goes wrong.

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The fact that Ebay and PayPal have twenty years worth of tested policies, procedures, and support experience -- whether or not you like or agree with them -- is a big differentiation between them and any start-up trying to do a similar thing.

 

Oh my, am I "off topic" again?

 

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iceman - you really need to drop it. Buyers have an advantage on ebay, and that's the way it should be. Your attempts to debate and rage otherwise are just childish.

 

My username there is the same as here - go ahead and block me.

 

@Piko - sorry, there's not much positive I can add because this all sounds like a terrible idea and poorly thought out. You bought the name GameGavel, and with no plan at all, are entertaining the idea of totally removing auctions? Auction... gavel... there's a connection there. Like you said, you just want the traffic that the name GameGavel generates, and I don't see how even an UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT sign over the front door is going to help at this point.

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iceman - you really need to drop it.

 

I did I blocked him after the last post. What drives me insane is what more can the guy want I mean damn what else can be incorporated to benefit buyers anymore?

 

You win any claim for nothing.

 

Open and item not described claim- Automatic win even if you lie-full refund

Change your mind- Refuse to accept package- Full refund including shipping via pp.

Buy game play it for 3 weeks then decide you no longer want it and send it back- You win full refund.

Item damaged even if it isn't - open a claim, you win full refund.

Item lost in mail- open a claim full refund-get free game 2 weeks later.

Send a bag of shit back instead of what you purchased- you laugh because you know you are getting a full refund.

 

His whole problem is it takes too long for him to win his claim, my whole point is HE WINS! He will always win, it doesn't matter. If you want to shit on the seller you can and there is nothing a seller can do about it. All we can do is hope we get good buyers who don't want to stick it to us.

 

So anyone whining saying they need more buyer protection blows my mind. You have all the protection you need 10 times over.

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I've never once had to appeal anything with paypal, nor do I feel I should ever HAVE to. eBay has been my front line of defense on the few issues I've had and has come through every time.

The problem is when people lose the claim on ebay they fall back on paypal. I have had at least 3 cases closed in my favor only to have my funds ripped out of my paypal 2 days later!

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iceman - you really need to drop it. Buyers have an advantage on ebay, and that's the way it should be. Your attempts to debate and rage otherwise are just childish.

 

My username there is the same as here - go ahead and block me.

 

@Piko - sorry, there's not much positive I can add because this all sounds like a terrible idea and poorly thought out. You bought the name GameGavel, and with no plan at all, are entertaining the idea of totally removing auctions? Auction... gavel... there's a connection there. Like you said, you just want the traffic that the name GameGavel generates, and I don't see how even an UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT sign over the front door is going to help at this point.

 

 

The only thing that I have is a plan. I'm not going to describe it because it could be easily copied. So yeah, I guess we'll just have to wait to see if it works. If it doesn't no harm no fault, I'm not going to scam people.

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This is what I meant to say in my previous post...

 

tenor.gif

 

 

You know,

 

We've wanted to do a magazine way before Mike launched Retro. Slowly planning etc, then he launched the KS and was successful. So we dropped plans because someone else already had taken over the idea.

 

I could have launched a competition but what I was I going to call it? Vintage? Classic Games magazines? Retro is the name people associate with older games. That is why there is a semi-successful Retro Gamer in the UK.

 

So if I wanted to use the Retro word in a magazine; I needed to acquire this, why? because of trademark. It has a trademark awarded and live for video game magazines for the word Retro. So It will be cheaper to buy this and have some back catalog and left over stock to sell than get a cease and deceit.

 

But yeah, I am unreasonably insane with a toxic waste selling a trashcan on fire.

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The problem is when people lose the claim on ebay they fall back on paypal. I have had at least 3 cases closed in my favor only to have my funds ripped out of my paypal 2 days later!

I understand what you are saying iceman but you also understand what is a weakness for the seller is a strength for the buyer. See it from my side....that's two levels of protection for me, and I consider myself an honest guy who wouldn't abuse either.

 

If I was to go to Game Gavel, I likely could not expect the same level of deference in disputes as a buyer as eBay gives me (I've NEVER lost an eBay dispute, I haven't had many, maybe I am just lucky)...likely making paypal my primary dispute regulator. And I don't want to get into contesting charges and phone calls, etc, never have.

 

I don't want you having money taken from you that should not be...but that is often the role of the business in the business/customer relationship. The customer is always right, even when they're wrong, etc. Happens to my business every day. I don't like it either, but I have to deal with it.

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You know,

 

We've wanted to do a magazine way before Mike launched Retro. Slowly planning etc, then he launched the KS and was successful. So we dropped plans because someone else already had taken over the idea.

 

I could have launched a competition but what I was I going to call it? Vintage? Classic Games magazines? Retro is the name people associate with older games. That is why there is a semi-successful Retro Gamer in the UK.

 

So if I wanted to use the Retro word in a magazine; I needed to acquire this, why? because of trademark. It has a trademark awarded and live for video game magazines for the word Retro. So It will be cheaper to buy this and have some back catalog and left over stock to sell than get a cease and deceit.

 

But yeah, I am unreasonably insane with a toxic waste selling a trashcan on fire.

 

I'm thinking turning around the magazine will be a lot easier for you then trying to get traffic to GameGavel. I'm really cringing at the purchase of GameGavel.

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I understand what you are saying iceman but you also understand what is a weakness for the seller is a strength for the buyer. See it from my side....that's two levels of protection for me, and I consider myself an honest guy who wouldn't abuse either.

 

If I was to go to Game Gavel, I likely could not expect the same level of deference in disputes as a buyer as eBay gives me

 

My whole point is as long as GG and it's members accept PayPal there is nothing else you need. PayPal has more in place than ebay does for buyers so as eBay's protection doesn't even matter anymore. Skip the middleman and just file a claim through paypal and win quicker.

 

As far as a weakness for the seller is a strength for the buyer, EXACTLY. That it what I have been saying. The seller has ZERO strengths right now on ebay/PP. There is really nothing for a seller right now to protect us.

 

Please by all means let me know all the seller protection there is. Last time I had a return I did not trust the buyer and recorded myself opening the package to show a different game was sent back. I called paypal as he had already lost his ebay claim and was working one with PP to tell them I recorded myself to show he sent back a diff. item. They didn't even care about it.

 

After arguing with 10 different people for 3 days I finally found someone to refund me but all this douche had to do was show a tracking number delivered and he got to keep what I sent him and get a full refund. Took him no time at all paste a tracking number in a claim box. Took me days of fighting to not get screwed. PP finally took the loss, he got a free game from it.

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My whole point is as long as GG and it's members accept PayPal there is nothing else you need. PayPal has more in place than ebay does for buyers so as eBay's protection doesn't even matter anymore. Skip the middleman and just file a claim through paypal and win quicker.

 

As far as a weakness for the seller is a strength for the buyer, EXACTLY. That it what I have been saying. The seller has ZERO strengths right now on ebay/PP. There is really nothing for a seller right now to protect us.

 

Please by all means let me know all the seller protection there is. Last time I had a return I did not trust the buyer and recorded myself opening the package to show a different game was sent back. I called paypal as he had already lost his ebay claim and was working one with PP to tell them I recorded myself to show he sent back a diff. item. They didn't even care about it.

 

After arguing with 10 different people for 3 days I finally found someone to refund me but all this douche had to do was show a tracking number delivered and he got to keep what I sent him and get a full refund. Took him no time at all paste a tracking number in a claim box. Took me days of fighting to not get screwed. PP finally took the loss, he got a free game from it.

It seems odd you'd want anyone to rely on Paypal at all when by your account Paypal is the one refunding people from your account, after eBay has actually ruled in your favor. Which I agree, if you were right, and I assume you would not lie about it, that's pretty shitty.

 

I have had "disputes" that were simply handled through ebay without having to do what I would consider ripping someone off on Paypal. I got a PC Engine copy of Ninja Gaiden recently...was stated as CIC. Was chip only. I messaged the seller, and we worked out a refund, but only to what we agreed was fair for a chip only version. If I only had Paypal to fall back on....I just get my refund, a free game, and that guy is screwed.

 

You can go ahead and create your ideal GG marketplace, even if we disagreed about this one issue keeping people from buying there....it still will not resolve the selection size and seller base issue. So buyers won't be there (there'll be next to nothing available compared to ebay, and the prices won't be good), so you as a seller can hang around there, well protected, and get little to no sales. I don't see how it works. Buyer protection was only ONE part of my post.

 

(Frankly, and I hate to say it...I think Mike Kennedy had a good idea, if this was indeed his idea, to try and attract big ticket items. Those are unique and IMO can live outside of eBay just fine. Be kind of like the Sotheby's of game sales as opposed to the police auction eBay is)

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I did I blocked him after the last post. What drives me insane is what more can the guy want I mean damn what else can be incorporated to benefit buyers anymore?

 

You win any claim for nothing.

 

Open and item not described claim- Automatic win even if you lie-full refund

Change your mind- Refuse to accept package- Full refund including shipping via pp.

Buy game play it for 3 weeks then decide you no longer want it and send it back- You win full refund.

Item damaged even if it isn't - open a claim, you win full refund.

Item lost in mail- open a claim full refund-get free game 2 weeks later.

Send a bag of shit back instead of what you purchased- you laugh because you know you are getting a full refund.

 

His whole problem is it takes too long for him to win his claim, my whole point is HE WINS! He will always win, it doesn't matter. If you want to shit on the seller you can and there is nothing a seller can do about it. All we can do is hope we get good buyers who don't want to stick it to us.

 

So anyone whining saying they need more buyer protection blows my mind. You have all the protection you need 10 times over.

Doesn't seem like you dropped anything. You in fact posted another string of argument here and in subsequent posts. I've already explained to you that buyer protection on Ebay and Paypal has some loopholes that aren't easy for an honest buyer like myself to overcome. In addition, Paypal doesn't offer buyers unlimited courtesy refunds. They evaluate them like a credit card company would and if you exceed their internal standards (whether you are raising legitimate claims or not), they will stop helping.

 

As for specifics, I don't believe sellers should be able to refund using a different payment method (i.e, delayed e-check) than the buyer originally used nor do I think sellers should be able to claim that they will refund return shipping and then not do so. If a seller acts in bad faith, Ebay needs to ban them rather than just continually saying that the issue needs to be worked out between the buyer and seller. I also don't think if a buyer and seller are at a clear impasse that the dispute should need to wait a week to ten days for Ebay to intervene. Finally, Ebay needs to have customer service people that are actually empowered to take action. I don't need to speak to multiple reps who have zero authority to do anything.

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So, I am into guitars as well as video games and about four years ago, a site called Reverb was started. They had quite a bit of capital to start with, but Reverb has stolen a large chunk of sales from eBay and they are growing.

 

There is certainly a big market for people wanting to get away from eBay. Their fees have gotten out of control. I say, go for it and good luck!

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