130XE project system, some revision questions.

[leech]

So... I decided finally to start my 'kick ass Atari 8-bit' quest. For a long time, I was trying to decide which model to upgrade all the bits in, finally decided on the 130XE. Planning on doing the VBXE, Rapidus, and Ultimate 1MB (I don't think I'm missing any, am I?)

 

So got my secondary in today (would rather keep one original), but upon hooking it up I noticed some lines in the display (s-video), but then I notice there are finer lines in the other one I had (I'll post pictures of those after I put the systems back together).

 

Upon taking them apart, here are the things I've noticed right away;

The SIO connector looks all sorts of crap compared to the other one.

 

The POT looks weird, though I'm assuming this really makes no difference, and I'm betting I could tweak this to see if I can get a cleaner picture on both.

 

GTIA on my original one is socketed, so this would be the one easier to mod, right?

 

The Capacitor near the power switch is looking like it needs replacement on the one I just got, should I stick with the same brand? Looks like it's a Nicon 470uf16v. The old one, I can't quite figure out what brand they are, oddly all the other capacitors are that same brand (they say WANG'S on them?). Almost looks like the power one was already replace, since it's the only Nicon one out of all of them.

 

Thanks for any input.

 

 

[+Stephen]

Just a different brand of pot. Adjusting them will only shift the colours. See AtariAge member flashjazzcat's Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4nx-i-2K34RDHyDn06i7Ng for some info regarding issues with rapidus + U1MB. You'll want a stereo pokey upgrade too. I would recommend looking up the TK-II mod. It's fantastic, and it has a killer implementation of PS/2 keyboard adapter.

[leech]

Interesting (thanks about reminding me about the Stereo Pokey!)

 

Wonder which has better air flow, 800XL or 130XE. Seems the issue he was having was that he packed in all the things, and it was overheating, or over taxing the bus. But all of this was in a 800XL. Guess I can ping Lotharek about it before I order them.

[Rybags]

To put a decent amount of mods in you'd be leaving off the top part of the RF shield, it's easier on 800XL to retain the bottom piece since it's held together by screws rather than flimsy folded clips.

 

Airflow, really I don't think would matter on either unless you have an internal HDD.

 

800XL assuming socketed would be plenty easier to add all the upgrades to even though Antic needs the precision socket for VBXE, XLs are better quality and less likely to destroy vias and traces when desoldering. 800XL all round the better machine in daily use.

[_The Doctor__]

Replace the Capacitor near the power switch and clean up the blood, it's shot...... remove the capacitors responsible for killing SIO bandwidth on the read, send and control lines... the correct ones to remove are listed for each board on the threads regarding hi speed sio for US doubler, indus gt, xf551, sio2sd, and so on.

 

doesn't make a difference which you decide to upgrade IMHO

[flashjazzcat]

Seems the issue he was having was that he packed in all the things, and it was overheating, or over taxing the bus.

I'm gonna try the Rapidus 800XL with the U1MB disconnected tonight to see what happens. In fact, if you have U1MB, the rebooting issue isn't such a pain since instead of putting Rapidus in "Classic" mode, you can disable Rapidus completely via software (using the Rapidus plugin in the U1MB BIOS) if you want to use the 6502.

 

BTW: YT Channel has custom URL now: https://www.youtube.com/user/flashjazzcat

[+DrVenkman]

Really enjoying your channel these days, Jon. I've watched enough that my wife asked me last night, "Who the hell is that guy you're watching all the time?!?"

 

Also, YouTube's automatic closed captions are stupidly fun to watch as they try to comprehend your accent combined with all the technical terminology, lol!

[leech]

I'm gonna try the Rapidus 800XL with the U1MB disconnected tonight to see what happens. In fact, if you have U1MB, the rebooting issue isn't such a pain since instead of putting Rapidus in "Classic" mode, you can disable Rapidus completely via software (using the Rapidus plugin in the U1MB BIOS) if you want to use the 6502.BTW: YT Channel has custom URL now: https://www.youtube.com/user/flashjazzcat

Nice, I ended up watching quite a bit of your videos last night. I think I want to try to clean up the video signal, then I will end up ordering the parts, though I will probably finish watching you put in the mods first.

 

Am I understanding right that the Adaptus is only required in an XL?

[flashjazzcat]

Really enjoying your channel these days, Jon. I've watched enough that my wife asked me last night, "Who the hell is that guy you're watching all the time?!?"

I used to get the same question from my wife at first when I started watching Louis Rossmann. Now it's "I'm off out. Are you going to watch your Louis?".

 

Also, YouTube's automatic closed captions are stupidly fun to watch as they try to comprehend your accent combined with all the technical terminology, lol!

Never witnessed that yet, although I can't imagine it working well. I tried total voice control of my Android phone once and it was totally unreliable until I adopted an American accent, at which point voice recognition magically became completely accurate. But I can't realistically talk like that the whole time.

 

Am I understanding right that the Adaptus is only required in an XL?

Yep: 600XL and 800XL only, and even then, the adventurous might be able to wedge Rapidus directly under the keyboard somehow (see Sloopy's Rapidus 600XL on Facebook). Adaptus isn't required for the 1200XL (indeed, it would not fit): instead, you must make your own adapter to offset the CPU socket by half an inch or so to prevent the CPU blocking the keyboard. Not sure about the XEGS, but I guess it would plug right in there.

 

PS: Top tip is to leave the bottom RF shield on the machine. Put it back on the 800XL featured in the video half an hour or so ago, and it hasn't rebooted yet. Will feature this in a video assuming it isn't a total fluke.

Edited June 2, 2017 by flashjazzcat

[Joey Z]

remove the capacitors responsible for killing SIO bandwidth on the read, send and control lines...

Hey, lets not go and crucify those caps as if they're only a bad thing. These are ESD protection caps. They keep you from blowing up your POKEY by zapping the SIO port. And you people wonder why POKEYs seem to go bad all the time...

[Joey Z]

I used to get the same question from my wife at first when I started watching Louis Rossmann. Now it's "I'm off out. Are you going to watch your Louis?".

 

 

Never witnessed that yet, although I can't imagine it working well. I tried total voice control of my Android phone once and it was totally unreliable until I adopted an American accent, at which point voice recognition magically became completely accurate. But I can't realistically talk like that the whole time.

 

 

Yep: 600XL and 800XL only, and even then, the adventurous might be able to wedge Rapidus directly under the keyboard somehow (see Sloopy's Rapidus 600XL on Facebook). Adaptus isn't required for the 1200XL (indeed, it would not fit): instead, you must make your own adapter to offset the CPU socket by half an inch or so to prevent the CPU blocking the keyboard. Not sure about the XEGS, but I guess it would plug right in there.

 

PS: Top tip is to leave the bottom RF shield on the machine. Put it back on the 800XL featured in the video half an hour or so ago, and it hasn't rebooted yet. Will feature this in a video assuming it isn't a total fluke.

Sounds like it's coming down to RFI again. Who knew putting 160MHz clocks in a system from the 1980's was a bad idea....

[flashjazzcat]

Sounds like it's coming down to RFI again. Who knew putting 160MHz clocks in a system from the 1980's was a bad idea....

Yeah. Shield didn't do much good as it turned out, but the 3.3k pullups on the address lines really make a difference. Removed them and the machine started rebooting straight away on reset, in any Rapidus mode. Put them back and all OK again. Instead of using Classic mode, I advocate turning Rapidus off via the U1MB BIOS and doing a power-cycle to get back to 1.7MHz. No unwanted reboots this way.

[leech]

Hmm, interesting. Well, I still need to get up the courage to order everything. Thinking I'll probably watch the rest of your videos before proceeding. I'll probably do a de-yellowing of the keys first anyhow. I did notice that the keyboards were different on the two models. My original one is the nicer one with springs under the keys, and the 'mylar that doesn't suck.' I haven't checked the mylar of the new one, but the top row keys actually have holes that go through the plating.

 

Atari and their million variants...

[_The Doctor__]

I have removed 2 and 3 caps on the sio ports since I first started using high speed devices all those years ago... NEVER had a dead pokey on any machine... and it is the recommended action for most high speed drives... ICD US doubler, XF551,and the like.... notes from ICD as well as Atari told the caps to remove... so what are you talking about?

[leech]

Oh, I remember reading now about that mod, after I bought my SIO2SD, the thing is fast enough without doing anything, so I never bothered. But then if I'm going to speed everything else up, may as well, eh? Is the patch included for high speed SIO in one of the upgrade boards?

Edited June 3, 2017 by leech

[Joey Z]

I have removed 2 and 3 caps on the sio ports since I first started using high speed devices all those years ago... NEVER had a dead pokey on any machine... and it is the recommended action for most high speed drives... ICD US doubler, XF551,and the like.... notes from ICD as well as Atari told the caps to remove... so what are you talking about?

Capacitors on an externally exposed line are a very common form of ESD protection. That's possibly why they're there. You'll notice they have caps on just about any connector on the Atari that has male pins, and they can get away with the speed degradation. Ideally, you would use TVS diodes instead, along with a smaller cap in a situation like this (where the cap produces too much loading on the high-ish speed signal, not to mention it's an open collector line).