+jeremiahjt Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I thought somebody would have already started a topic on this, but I guess not. In the Ataribox thread Standard User discovered that Hyperkin is showing off a new system that plays 2600 games. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/?p=3780598 I have never personally owned a RetroN, but I know they have put out quite a few systems that play Nintendo cartridges and I think ones that play Sega games too. What are everybody's thoughts on this? Personally I am quite shocked by it. There have not been any rumors or even a statement about it that I have heard. It was just listed under their new products for E3. http://mp037jm24.mapyourshow.com/7_0/exhibitor/exhibitor-details.cfm?ExhID=vKfzxkpC 5 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I love the idea. There are so many cartridges out there, might as well make use of them, rather than just throw them out. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3780865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toiletunes Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 It's a step in the right direction, hopefully future models will have Inty/Coleecho/5200/7800/XEGS/O2/etc support 13 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3780872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 If this A) actually materializes and B) is actually what it says it is--essentially a new 2600 clone system--then this will be the unit I've been waiting for for 17 years (only now, 17 years later, we have HDMI!), or at least since I first heard the announcement of the Flashback 1 way back when. It's a step in the right direction, hopefully future models will have Inty/Coleecho/5200/7800/XEGS/O2/etc support I wouldn't hold my breath on that stuff, considering we've been told for years and years that even a clone of the 2600--the best-selling, most popular, and most remembered of all of those by a considerable margin--wouldn't be commercially viable, but I agree it's great that somebody's finally going in this direction.(I feel like if Hyperkin had plans to release clones of other Atari systems, for instance, they'd call this one "Retron 26," leaving the possibility for "Retron 52XE," "Retron 78," and the like. Naming it after the release year would be weird otherwise, and conflict with multiple systems released in a given year, like the 5200 and Coleco.)Depending on price, I think I would have to buy two Retron 77s, or maybe even three (one for each HDTV in my house, plus one to keep NIB ) even if the thing turns out to be a piece of crap, if only to help give confidence that there's demand for a 2600 clone and other pre-crash clones. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3780907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) I don't really care about 1080p myself with old video games, I just don't see the point. It is more important though IMO on newer consoles with better graphics but I mean there really isn't much detail in an Atari 2600 that gives the need for 1080p. I just don't get it. If the console is priced nice it might be a nice source for accessories though. EDIT: What I'm getting at is this. If the console itself is incapable of displaying a graphic image in 1080p with full colors and detail then there is no point in displaying 1080p. The Atari 2600 cannot do that, so you really wouldn't notice any difference if it were 720p or 1080p. The only advantage I guess would be that the picture is digital and you get rid of any ghosting or other similar problems with composite or RF. But I swear if they were to announce a 4k Atari 2600 people would go crazy over it, but just like I mentioned before you would notice no difference between it either and 720p via HDMI. Edited June 10, 2017 by SignGuy81 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3780914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I hope it's not just an emulator with cartridge ports. Otherwise, there isn't a need for me to get one. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3780919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 The lastest Retron HD was hardware based, unlike the Retron 5. I did a review of it on my channel. I predict that this console will not be any different. I am very interested in this and excited to see this announced. A couple of things that we can hope for. 1. Plays near 100 percent of library including harmony cart and homebrews. 2. Cart port that can accept all third party cart designs. 3. sound and color accuracy 4. System durability Between this, the Atari Box, and the Atgames hardware I would say that this is a great time to love Atari games. 6 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3780930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 It sounds neat. I only care a little bit about playing original cartridges -- mainly as a way to check fidelity to the old hardware. Not sure if I want one, but I'll keep an eye on it. I have a large collection of VCS cartridges I haven't touched in over 15 years. This might be what it takes for me to fish that out, either to play, or if the this thing turns up the market, sell! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3780938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I have a large collection of VCS cartridges I haven't touched in over 15 years. *shakes head disappointedly* 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3780949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 *shakes head disappointedly* I'm older than you, just you waitThey're ripening in the basement Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3780966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I don't really care about 1080p myself with old video games, I just don't see the point. It is more important though IMO on newer consoles with better graphics but I mean there really isn't much detail in an Atari 2600 that gives the need for 1080p. I just don't get it. If the console is priced nice it might be a nice source for accessories though. EDIT: What I'm getting at is this. If the console itself is incapable of displaying a graphic image in 1080p with full colors and detail then there is no point in displaying 1080p. The Atari 2600 cannot do that, so you really wouldn't notice any difference if it were 720p or 1080p. The only advantage I guess would be that the picture is digital and you get rid of any ghosting or other similar problems with composite or RF. But I swear if they were to announce a 4k Atari 2600 people would go crazy over it, but just like I mentioned before you would notice no difference between it either and 720p via HDMI. I have played Atari games off a Pi in HD and I can tell you it looks 100 times better than the original Atari. No interference lines or snowy pictures. Just sharp crystal clear Atari fun! I wouldn't have it any other way. Once you try it and love it, you won't ever want to go back! But to each their own... 5 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I have played Atari games off a Pi in HD and I can tell you it looks 100 times better than the original Atari. No interference lines or snowy pictures. Just sharp crystal clear Atari fun! I wouldn't have it any other way. Once you try it and love it, you won't ever want to go back! But to each their own... I love the clean look of emulation, too. Give me an Atari with a cartridge port and HDMI & I'm set! 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I have played Atari games off a Pi in HD and I can tell you it looks 100 times better than the original Atari. No interference lines or snowy pictures. Just sharp crystal clear Atari fun! I wouldn't have it any other way. Once you try it and love it, you won't ever want to go back! But to each their own... Yeah I did state that was an advantage, all I said was that it being 1080p didn't really matter, just the fact that it is digital is what makes the difference. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy B. Coyote Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 This is both unexpected and quite exciting, at least in theory. We'll have to wait and see what the final product looks like and how the game compatibility is, but if it plays Pitfall II then I certainly might be interested. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehawke Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I don't really care about 1080p myself with old video games, I just don't see the point. It is more important though IMO on newer consoles with better graphics but I mean there really isn't much detail in an Atari 2600 that gives the need for 1080p. I just don't get it. If the console is priced nice it might be a nice source for accessories though. EDIT: What I'm getting at is this. If the console itself is incapable of displaying a graphic image in 1080p with full colors and detail then there is no point in displaying 1080p. The Atari 2600 cannot do that, so you really wouldn't notice any difference if it were 720p or 1080p. The only advantage I guess would be that the picture is digital and you get rid of any ghosting or other similar problems with composite or RF. But I swear if they were to announce a 4k Atari 2600 people would go crazy over it, but just like I mentioned before you would notice no difference between it either and 720p via HDMI. Actually, it does matter. Having the image pre-upscaled in the console means you're not relying on your TV's inevitably slower upscaler and thus you get a lot less latency on the gameplay and controls when you're outputting your TV's native resolution. Having a TV with a game mode also helps, of course. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I expect lots of graphical errors, and since the TIA is doing the graphics and sound, probably bad sound also. The CPU and I/O chips are simple to recreate compared to the TIA which made the system display without using a RAM buffer which led to all kinds of tricks and exploits it wasn't ever designed to do. Even now, the Stella emulator is getting a better TIA implementation in 2017 with Version 5, and sound is to be improved a few point versions later. So simple yet so complex TIA package of timers, dividers... the TIA documentation is scattered all over and sometimes just plain wrong information, I'll be truly impressed if they get to "acceptable" using emulation or FPGA modeling. It can't possibly compare to Stella which has had decades of coding, and Stella emulation isn't as good as real hardware. If it is good enough to ignore its flaws, it should do just fine. I spent the $380 for the XRGB mini Framemeister upscaler for the convenience and future-proofing, and the composite, s-video, RGB upgrade kits and PS2 native RGB or Component, and HDMI-in gives me 480p 720p to 1080p with scan lines or without for every console and Pi emulation I own. Okay the Fairchild VES is RF only, but I have a tuner box with composite out (like a VCR without the recording part) that technically I could run through the Framemeister, but as long as I have working CRT TV's... 5 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Actually, it does matter. Having the image pre-upscaled in the console means you're not relying on your TV's inevitably slower upscaler and thus you get a lot less latency on the gameplay and controls when you're outputting your TV's native resolution. Having a TV with a game mode also helps, of course. Well, sure latency is there, but I notice absolutely none whatsoever when playing any of my consoles on my 1080p TV, whether it be a game in 240p over composite or component, 480i or p, 720p, etc. so unless you have a really crappy TV I don't see the point. Another thing that a lot of people might not even realize is that they think they're sending out a 1080p signal to a 1080p TV and think that they are sending a pixel by pixel signal to their TV even though their TV is still scaling because they have overscan turned on by factory from the manufacturer, and I would bet half the people that would make that argument have theirs turned on. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Maybe it will be based on this?: 6 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Teams Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 If "77" refers to the year, then it should also have Fairchild Channel F and Bally Astrocade cartridge slots as well. 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehawke Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Well, sure latency is there, but I notice absolutely none whatsoever when playing any of my consoles on my 1080p TV, whether it be a game in 240p over composite or component, 480i or p, 720p, etc. so unless you have a really crappy TV I don't see the point. Another thing that a lot of people might not even realize is that they think they're sending out a 1080p signal to a 1080p TV and think that they are sending a pixel by pixel signal to their TV even though their TV is still scaling because they have overscan turned on by factory from the manufacturer, and I would bet half the people that would make that argument have theirs turned on. I can see it in about 80% of TVs when game mode is turned off or not available. It definitely screws with my timing in games like Pitfall. I'd consider your experience an extreme outlier based on what I've seen from forums, personal experience, and friends complaining over the years. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) I can see it in about 80% of TVs when game mode is turned off or not available. It definitely screws with my timing in games like Pitfall. I'd consider your experience an extreme outlier based on what I've seen from forums, personal experience, and friends complaining over the years. My whole point really was not to argue I'm sure it may be an issue for some I was just referring to the video quality, not any latency issues as I have none(that is noticeable enough to be an issue). I mean the Xbox 360 upscales games as well to 1080p if you have 1080p set and have never heard many complaints from those players about having problems with games and input timing due to time it takes for the Xbox to do the scaling. It just all depends on the device or TV doing the upscaling and my TV does just fine. The only setting I've changed on it is turned off overscan which was factory default. Edited June 11, 2017 by SignGuy81 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I just watched John Hancock's video about this. If Retron 77 is hardware/FPGA based and not emulation, I'd be happy to have a HDMI Atari system. Of course I strongly suspect there will be homebrew incompatibilities but I'd give it a chance. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Here is the link to my video. I do not have any more info than anyone else, but here is the video I did on it. 10 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 If Retron 77 is hardware/FPGA based and not emulation, I'd be happy to have a HDMI Atari system. Of course I strongly suspect there will be homebrew incompatibilities but I'd give it a chance. Couldn't it just be a SOAC like the Flashback 2 was? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 The unit looks really cool 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/266544-retron-77/#findComment-3781762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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