RetroN 77

[Electric-Dreams]

Did you play Decathlon?

 

mmm ... with A77 you mean ? ... no, I didn't ... I do not want my joystick to break

 

No CX40 like joystick design can resist intense Decathlon play. Maybe "microswiches & short stick" design are more appropriate, like Epyx 500 JX/Konix Speedking. But this is a little off topic

[Flojomojo]

This whole forum tends off topic. It's OK!

 

A77 is compatible with Retron77, and is completely ON TOPIC from where I sit.

 

They even have the same last name.

[up2knowgood]

This whole forum tends off topic. It's OK!

 

A77 is compatible with Retron77, and is completely ON TOPIC from where I sit.

 

They even have the same last name.

Table for Mr. 77, table for Mr. 77. Mr. 77, you table is ready.

[tdp]

Just they would confirm if this supports the supercharger. I wonder what peripherals they have tested it with?

[Flojomojo]

I doubt it will support the supercharger directly -- think about how an emulator works when "dumping" a cartridge at load time. If they support the ROMs thru and SD card, that would be nice

[Keatah]

Why not make it 100% compatible and be done with it. None of this "is it compatible" or it is "partly" compatible, if you do this this and this, and it'll work, but not this way or that way. Consumers these days don't have high enough standards.

[up2knowgood]

Why not make it 100% compatible and be done with it. None of this "is it compatible" or it is "partly" compatible, if you do this this and this, and it'll work, but not this way or that way. Consumers these days don't have high enough standards.

I think it would be impossible to make it 100% compatible with emulation, and making it a hardware clone would be expensive and difficult as even the off the shelf parts the Atari was made with back in the day are probably no longer manufactured, nevermind the proprietary bits. And that's before modifying it to use HDMI.

[Keatah]

Surely an FPGA chip could be made 100% compatible.. And while there have been attempts before at making an FPGA based VCS, they all had some weird funkyness going on with the physical cartridge slot and switch arrangement. Cartridge slot incorrectly sized in order to fit some whimsical formfactor. Switches hard to use because their physical implementation doesn't always match their intended function. Thinking of that walkman VCS or a benheck hack job.

 

Not saying the Retron77 is any better regarding switches, it is not. A proper VCS clone/remake should have all 6 switches readily available. Not some in the front, and the rest in the back. All in the front! The switches are a cornerstone of the personality of the machine.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Keatah

[+Nathan Strum]

I'm wondering how many different original 2600 cart styles they've tested. Manufacturers each had their own shells, and they don't all fit the same.

[up2knowgood]

I'm wondering how many different original 2600 cart styles they've tested. Manufacturers each had their own shells, and they don't all fit the same.

 

True, but all the main ones(of whom I mean, Atari, Activision, Imagic, 20th Century Fox, Coleco, Parker Brothers, and maybe Data Age) are pretty much identical, at the cartridge mouth that is. The only ones I've ever heard not fitting well in a cartridge slot are Tigervision games, and the Supercharger in some because of that bulge on it. But this won't work with the Supercharger anyway, so no worries there.

[Keatah]

Can it play SC and DPC+ or CDF games via SD?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Surely an FPGA chip could be made 100% compatible...

IMO there is no quality difference between software emulation and hardware emulation.

[Bill Loguidice]

Obviously an FPGA would be an ideal solution, but we're not at the point yet where FPGA-based devices can release at mass market pricing. In a few years or so, I suspect this may change, and, if it does, that's likely where most of these types of devices will end up. In the mean-time, I think as long as these things are based around proven emulators, they can give nearly all of the experiences almost all users would want. For those who demand perfection, only working with the original hardware will do anyway, so it's not like that group is really worth targeting. There's always going to be something to not be happy about.

[Flojomojo]

I demand they make it in orange!!

[digdugnate]

i will admit, the latest update has my interest piqued quite a bit. when it does retail, i hope it's not an arm and a leg to purchase.

[up2knowgood]

I demand they make it in orange!!

Maybe a Tron Blue one to match my Mattel joystick.

[Mr SQL]

I doubt it will support the supercharger directly -- think about how an emulator works when "dumping" a cartridge at load time. If they support the ROMs thru and SD card, that would be nice

 

X2! It would be cool to be able to load SuperCharger games directly from CD or from your phone but it would require the Atari emulator to have the functionality to parse an audio-in stream.

 

I think the Atari emu core in MESS/MAME might be able to load an audio stream.

[DirtyHairy]

Surely an FPGA chip could be made 100% compatible..

 

 

There is nothing magical in FPGAs that makes emulation implemented in a FPGA intrinsically more compatible than emulation implemented in software. In the end, the accuracy depends on the accuracy of the hardware model that is implemented. Imho, the only true advantage of a FPGAs that you don't have to deal with an underlying OS and that you can tune timing to your liking--- essentially, you get more precise timing (as in sync between virtual and wall time clock) for free. Bus access timings would fall into that domain *if* you connect to a real bus. Otherwise, there is nothing that FPGAs can do that software can't do.

Edited May 10, 2018 by DirtyHairy

[Keatah]

..except achieve more accuracy (timing) in the real world. In the here and now.

 

It would be nice if someone wrote (or transcoded) a modern-day emulator to work in a DOS-like environment without continual interruptions and lag-inducing OS baggage. That's what FPGA's are essentially doing - working without an OS.

[Flojomojo]

I have trouble buying that ...not when modern hardware is literally thousands of times faster than the old stuff being emulated, and have much more robust audiovisual capabilities.

 

A stripped down Linux distro running only the needed packages should be close to what you want, but I feel Windows or MacOS with few programs contending for resources should be plenty fine too.

 

Modern OSes are built for multitasking with protected memory, DOS itself is not. I know you said "DOSlike," but just because it's simpler and stripped down doesn't make it better.

[+SabertoothRetro]

The clarifying post from Hyperkin addressed most of my concerns. First day buyer.

[AndrewHyperkin]

I want to thank everyone for welcoming us coming forward with the details, and embracing its open-source nature as the right step on our part. In spite of all the concerns, I am quite confident in this product, having my own 2600 memories and this community's feedback as the very compass of right and wrong.

To answer your questions, yes - it does work with the original joysticks and paddles. From what my E3 guests could tell, with no noticeable input lag. Also, simultaneous joystick input (up+down / left+right) is possible. There are no hardware limitations to that.

Generally, the system plays everything you'd expect Stella to run. We went for homebrew files support because of all the developers out there who might need a system with actual controllers and flexible testing environment at their fingertips; we fully understand that sometimes you need to test more than just one binary, so it's possible to load multiple binaries onto the SD card for convenient debugging.

FPGAs are cool, and we did look into this solution. Honestly, there is no benefit to use it for this platform whatsoever. We went for a well-optimized junk-free core instead, and in our tests, with most games the hardware actually runs at 20-25% of its full potential. The system powers up and boots in seconds, there are no loading screens. While is true that any emulator experience (including FPGAs) will inevitably result in certain infidelities, let's face it: sticking to the original system has its inconveniences as well.

Another thing that I think many people will hopefully like about this system is its overall build quality. Our Supa Retron HD is already quite firm and solid, but this one takes it to a new level. Perhaps because of the emulator core we cannot re-create 100% gameplay fidelity, but we wanted this product to feel just like back in the old days when things were made to last.

Again, thanks for your support. It means a lot, and while I fully agree that it's impossible to satisfy everyone, we are truly glad to finally be able to make it happen.

[Keatah]

I said it before, I say it again. I think the disadvantages that accompany software emulation are many times outweighed by the convenience, reliability, and versatility it brings to the table.

 

I'm willing to bet that when it comes to classic gaming (pre-XBOX) software emulation outnumbers repro-hardware, fpga, and real hardware, combined, by at least 30:1. Perhaps more.

 

---

 

It's rather easy to believe in this project compared to something like the now-defunct SeeDee, or the non-existent ataribox. Why? Simply because we know low-cost hardware with enough power to run Emulator Stella exists, as does Stella itself. Bringing it together should be pretty straightforward.

 

---

 

I also wonder how much more exposure for Stella this product will create?

Edited May 11, 2018 by Keatah

[Keatah]

I want to thank everyone for welcoming us coming forward with the details, and embracing its open-source nature as the right step on our part. In spite of all the concerns, I am quite confident in this product, having my own 2600 memories and this community's feedback as the very compass of right and wrong.

 

This is an important part. All too many retrogamer products are substandard because the developers, the progenitors, never had exposure to the original [console] in a context outside the premise of making money.

 

Too many projects are started with the idea of becoming the next big things. $$$ in the eyes syndrome. Retrogaming is too often used as a way to cash in on a trend.

 

I also don't see a lot of these projects listening to their customers. It's always stubbornly headlong into something that seems impractical once details rear their ugly head.

 

Thankfully Stella has 2 decades of testing and refinements behind it. And that means the bulk of R77 has many years of development work already completed.

[Andromeda Stardust]

mmm ... with A77 you mean ? ... no, I didn't ... I do not want my joystick to break

No CX40 like joystick design can resist intense Decathlon play. Maybe "microswiches & short stick" design are more appropriate, like Epyx 500 JX/Konix Speedking. But this is a little off topic

Screw joysticks. Stuff like Decathalon you need a Starplex style layout in a sturdy wooden box.

 

Commission I did last year for Sramirez2008.