Jump to content
IGNORED

Preorder open for C64 Reloaded MK2


sm3

Recommended Posts

The SID they are selling is 8580, as opposed to the 6581. I just want something that works and sounds like the original C64. Therefore, does it matter which one? I'm more inclined to get the 6581 since you are using it and I trust you! :)

 

The 6581 is the original SID yes, the main (sound) difference with the 8580 is the loss of 'digi' music/sound. I had the 6581 originally in there but popped in an 8580 to try it out, and interestingly the Reloaded MK2 seems to automatically make the type of adjustment that I did with a resistor modification on my C64C, and voila the 8580 has the digi sound - very nice!

 

I've switched between the 8580 and the 6581 in real time (how cool is it that you can do that) and the sound overall is a bit louder on the 6581 but I'm guessing most people wouldn't even notice the difference.

 

I'm not aware of a place like Best or B&C for the Commodore side, but maybe other folks can chime in there.

 

The MK2 comes with a nice little brochure showing what chip versions can be used and each socket you'll need to fill. I did a quick scan of it and will add it here.

post-5887-0-81156100-1512693217_thumb.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks again, Remo!

 

I'm kind of afraid to cannibalize my working C64 (I have no idea if the chips are soldered, but I am assuming they are). I suppose if I have to, I can open my new, (and too-expensive and not-yet tried).....

 

Hakko FR300 Desoldering Tool

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O27NZUE/

 

....but perhaps I will just Ebay some beat-ass-looking C64s and see if I can NOT botch it with the chip removal. I'd rather have nice, clean chips that had never been soldered, to put in those pristine ZIF sockets, however.

 

I think the B&C Computervisions and Best Electronics (both obviously for Atari) are unique; if there was a Commodore equivalent to those vendors, I'd probably heard of it by now, having kept my chubby little finger on the pulse of retrocomputing for a while. But then again, I didn't know about the C64 Reloaded MK2 until this thread! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are some effects which are only possible with the 6581 over the 8580, and vice versa. I am not completely privy to all of the technical differences but there are plenty of good write-ups by SID hackers out there. I have seen a lot of demos and games now which have intricate music and sound effects come with options for running on the 6581 or the 8580.

 

If you want to forgo stereo SID on the 64, the C64 Reloaded has the ability to house two different SIDs and you can switch back and forth between them. For my purposes stereo is more important than two different models of SID. Though, one could also put one of the FPGA-based SID replacements into each socket and have the best of both worlds: whatever SID model desired in stereo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The filters are different, but perhaps more importantly the filters tend to be more uniform across a number of 8580 chips compared to the results over a number of 6581 chips, where each sample may sound differently. For instance Martin Galway coded a filter tuning program to one of his musics in order to let the user set some values to set the filters appropriately, but I think for space concerns the game publisher omitted that part of the program. There even is a recording of Galway's musics using his very own 6581 based C64 as it is thought that no other 6581 will for certain sound just like the one he composed the music on. Perhaps that is exaggerating it a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you should email Jens and ask if you can order 2 of them. Just let him know you missed them when you purchased the MK2. I'm betting as long as he sees you ordered the MK2, he will not have a problem with it.

 

I checked with Jens, if you have a registered account and a C64R order on that account you can purchase SIDs in the web store.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I checked with Jens, if you have a registered account and a C64R order on that account you can purchase SIDs in the web store.

 

 

Thank you, Remo.

 

Jens is excellent, and replied to my email.

 

I had bought the board under a "guest" account. That is, I had not registered, but just entered my info and went to Paypal, etc.

 

Then I was thinking that I had always wanted a PAL C64 for those games and demos, just as I have multiple NTSC and PAL versions of my Atari 8-bit. Sucks that it's not switchable, so I went back and ordered a second board (again under "guest") to build a PAL C64.

 

Then I emailed him, and (he told me) his website is clever enough that if you order under guest, you can then go back and create an account and then IMPORT your guest orders into your newly-created account. Your account will then let you order SID chips, as it "sees" that you have ordered board(s). So that's what I did.

 

What a class-act, not only for the product, the clever ability to do that with your guest accounts and orders, and the guy was really nice. He even said he'll refund me some duplicate shipping charges when he gets it all together. I am impressed!

 

Now, only if I could find some other chips, but I am just beginning my hunt. I did notice that their new 64C cases are on Ebay most of the time. Mulling it over, although I like the old beige breadbox for nostalgia.

 

I had noticed that Gideon from 1541 Ultimate is also working on a C64 motherboard replacement, using FPGA solutions. It also has the 1541 Ultimate built in. I wasn't sure, but I think it's more HDMI-output oriented, and I'd rather have S-video (etc) for my old 64. I'd also like the Ultimate on a cartridge to be moved between machines, rather than built into one.

 

But we'll see. Anybody have any thoughts on the upcoming "Ultimate-64" board? We'll see, after the Paypal account cools off from all of this.

 

I don't know too much about Commodore, but I have come to enjoy playing with this machine, and I especially like to play the slightly-different versions of my favorite A8 games while looking for the differences. I also like to play the later games that SHOULD have come out in Atari 8-bit versions, but didn't because the companies dropped A8 support. It's like a small part of gaming that I missed out on.

 

I will always be an A8 man at heart (you should see the pile of A8 I have here that aggravates others), but I was wrong to turn my nose up to this (C64) machine, so vehemently. When the 1541 Ultimate (model 1) came out, I finally decided to try it, and it's fun, and that's all that matters. I sold that and have a Ultimate II (what an unbelievable modern retro-peripheral) , but now I see they have an Ultimate II+! I am thinking of ordering one, but I am kind of sad they got rid of the micro SD slot, as having a USB stick hanging off the cart doesn't seem as elegant.

 

When I first joined AtariAge several years ago, I reverted back into the silly ways of the BBS (1980's) days, and revived my anti-Commodore childishness in the infamous "Atari vs Commodore" thread (if you've been around here a while, you'll remember it), trashing Commodore as if I was 15 years old again. Now, I drop hundreds of dollars on Commodore (8-bit) stuff, and I love it. It's a wonderful time to be a C64 enthusiast, with stuff like this Reloaded and of course the 1541 Ultimate.

 

Now, the A8 gets a lot of great attention and devices as well, but not *quite* as much. I suppose the A8 userbase was just so much smaller. I'm looking forward to the 1088XEL if I can get one, but stuff like a new replacement motherboard that drops into the original case (C64 Reloaded), an ACTUAL NEW CASE, and stuff quite as sophisticated as the 1541 Ultimate II (and beyond) seem to be quite unique developments to the C64 scene, and damn, they are good!

 

I do also enjoy the Vic20 Multicart. That's another home-run.

 

:)

 

EDIT: Not only do I not know where to get C64 chips, but where is a Yankee going to get something as unusual (in America) as a PAL Vic-II 6569 chip? Any of my Euro friends have an extra in their parts bin?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then I was thinking that I had always wanted a PAL C64 for those games and demos, just as I have multiple NTSC and PAL versions of my Atari 8-bit. Sucks that it's not switchable, so I went back and ordered a second board (again under "guest") to build a PAL C64.

 

Hardcore :) Switchable would be nicer, but since we're dealing with ZIFs here I'm good lifting the cover up and swapping out the VICII for NTSC/PAL. Not having to switch a crystal and the ZIF make it easier than my 'switchable' C64C.

 

 

I had noticed that Gideon from 1541 Ultimate is also working on a C64 motherboard replacement, using FPGA solutions. It also has the 1541 Ultimate built in. I wasn't sure, but I think it's more HDMI-output oriented, and I'd rather have S-video (etc) for my old 64. I'd also like the Ultimate on a cartridge to be moved between machines, rather than built into one. But we'll see. Anybody have any thoughts on the upcoming "Ultimate-64" board?

 

I'm thinking about Ultimate-64 (in fact I registered for interest). I'm a proponent of FPGA solutions, but I'm also a proponent of an FPGA solution that can 'be' more than one thing. That's an unknown at this point for the Ultimate-64 and one of he reasons I haven't made a final decision there.

 

 

When the 1541 Ultimate (model 1) came out, I finally decided to try it, and it's fun, and that's all that matters. I sold that and have a Ultimate II (what an unbelievable modern retro-peripheral) , but now I see they have an Ultimate II+! I am thinking of ordering one, but I am kind of sad they got rid of the micro SD slot, as having a USB stick hanging off the cart doesn't seem as elegant.

 

Easy solution to that one :D

 

oPn20i.jpg

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00812F7O8/

 

 

My heart belongs to the A8 too, but I enjoy the C64 for the differences and for the software that we should have gotten as well ;) I do find myself thinking that it would be awesome if the A8 had a Reloaded level solution. The XEL is Amazing and all, and obviously had a different design intent, but damn a Reloaded solution would be nice and a lot easier on end users.

 

I sourced PAL VICs from ebay, other chips I had on hand from rescue/donor boards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The C64 Ultimate sounds interesting. I will have to look at it. I had not even thought of building a PAL C64, and with the C64 Reloaded this is definitely possible. I have found PAL VIC-IIs around.

 

This guy has two 6569R3 remaining

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 3228906360121?ff3=2&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&item=322890636012&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]

 

He currently has 19 of the 8565R2 in stock (5v PAL VIC-II)

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 2910281036761?ff3=2&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&item=291028103676&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]

 

Of course, both of them are over-seas.

 

As for the 8562 (5v NTSC VIC-II,) I ordered two from this fella since the board does not properly identify my 6567.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 3228940391621?ff3=2&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&item=322894039162&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]

 

Ultimately I would like to replace all of my chips with the HMOS variants, but no hurry as it all works just fine as-is (well, aside from the 6567 problem hehehe)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion the Ultimate-64 is the better value (when it is available). You will have a C64 Ultimate already integrated AND the all so important ability to output HDMI. I mean, by buying this Individual Computers board you are already halfway going non-original anyway, and without a modern output method (S-Video?) and completely lacking the C64 Ultimate abilities....and for a hefty cost. And to top it off you have to fart around looking for good working old C64 chips.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love many of iComp's stuff (I own a few of their products) but this one just does not do it for me.

Edited by eightbit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that is a large part of the appeal. These two devices do and will appeal to two different groups. I particularly like the original chip approach and can deal with the S-Video output as my monitors all support S-Video and I only just recently migrated from an S-Video-based entertainment system to HDMI.

 

I did have some concerns about the apparent loss of the user port on the Ultimate, but I received an email back today saying the user port is available on a header for those who need it. I like the forward thinking involved in this project.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, OLD CS1, for your information. I ended up buying a PAL 8565 VIC 2 from that guy....

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 2910281036761?ff3=2&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&item=291028103676&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]

 

....which was (in my opinion) a bit expensive! €33.99 translates to $40 as of this time. But I found that PAL VIC 2 is not as common as one might have thought. However, according to this Youtube review, the newer (8565 for PAL) VIC 2 gives a better picture and colors......(roughly 19:00 in the video).....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_PEG1FpwGQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1145

 

....so I like the flexibility of being able to choose your VIC. I want the brightest, clearest picture, of course.

 

I also bought a couple of 8500 CPUs from the same guy (Germany) but I noticed he raised the price right after my sale. They were 24.99 (about $29.50 each) yesterday, and they are now €29.99 each.....(roughly $35 now). Hell, he was selling them for €18.99 (roughly $22.50) as recently as November 27! I guess these Reloaded boards are driving up the demand???

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 2227314405911?ff3=2&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&item=222731440591&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]

 

For the NTSC machine, I bought a Yankee 8562 NTSC VIC 2 - allegedly brand new - for a bargain of $17.50! I bought 2, in case I want to convert the PAL machine back into NTSC in the future, since these were so cheap. This is the same guy OLD CS1 linked to above....thanks for that, OLD CS1.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 3228940391621?ff3=2&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&item=322894039162&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]

 

Finding the CIA chips is a little more sketchy. Since I was going with the 85xx series with everything else, I thought I'd look for the 8521 CIA which I think was used in 8-bit machines, but I can't find any. I see 8520 which I think is an Amiga CIA with different clock (or something beyond my comprehension) and won't work. So I had to settle for the 6526A since that seems to be the easiest to find, on Ebay.

 

Some of the Chinese sellers of allegedly new 6526 CIAs are selling fakes, or partially fakes. Here's one such feedback....

 

post-16281-0-41512300-1513021855_thumb.jpg

 

I bought four of these (a little more money, but California it says instead of China) and I'll hope I don't get a fake one "made in 1935."

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 4013882334941?ff3=2&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&item=401388233494&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]

 

Jens (the seller of the Reloaded MK2) sold me a couple of new 8520 SIDs (one for each machine; thinking if I wanted dual-SID I would change to the earlier version with better filters (or whatever), but I'm not particularly interested in that, yet. He also combined shipping on my stuff and refunded me roughly $25 this morning, so that was nice.

 

So I have to agree with some of the criticism of this. The boards are not cheap, and it's a bit of mouse-clicking (and obvious additional cost) to get the right chips, and it appears this project is driving up chip prices.

 

But, the S-video is exactly what I wanted. I have zero desire to run a C64 over HDMI. Everything I've ever seen HDMI is 16:9 aspect ratio, and I want 4:3. I like CRTs for classic use, and I have a closet full of JVC monitors with S-video and that do PAL. The idea is that when I get my retro-room (for computing and gaming) I'll have about everything on the same monitor and it will look tidy, unlike the shelf of a thrift store with TVs of all different sizes, shapes, colors, and brands.

 

I also like having the original "User Port" there, so if I run across a printer interface, I can use one of the old Epsons and do some classic Print Shop. I understand there will be a header on the Ultimate-64, but that sounds kind of fragile. Probably no big deal. This Reloaded MK2 also does give you the flexibility of which VIC 2 and which SID (and how many) you want to use, and that is nice. As well, I already have the 1541 Ultimate II and swapping it between the NTSC and PAL machine will be handy, rather than having it built in. On the other hand, if one is going to build 2 systems anyway, one might just get 2 Ultimate-64 boards and load them both up and there'd be no swapping...LOL.

 

I am going to have a good look at the Ultimate-64 when it comes out. I may have to consider that, as well, after recovering from some of this big spending. I don't waste money on a lot of other things (cheap car, cheap clothes, etc), so this retro-vice I have I can contend with!

 

Has anybody gambled with these apparently NEW 64C cases, on Ebay???

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 2325900832831?ff3=2&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&item=232590083283&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]

 

I wonder if they come with screws? I'm sure there's no Commodore label, either. While I prefer the original beige "breadbin," my spare/backup one has an awful case. I thought I might put the PAL in one of these new 64C cases to easily distinguish it. You never see the 64C white keyboard for sale, and when you do, it's all yellowed. I guess I'll have to make a white case/brown keyboard bastard, but as long as it works!!! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see why neither would appeal? OTHER THAN THE COST, THAT IS!! :) But that is just the nature of niche electronics projects that don't achieve the economies of scale that Chinese toaster ovens do, at Walmart.

 

A modern, reliable, flexible, no-solder C64 is all that I'm after. That sounds like a good thing, no? Next time I go to hit the power switch in the wintertime in wool socks on a dry day and a spark jumps from my finger to the joystick pins, changing a CIA means lifting a lever!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really aggravates me when people raise prices like that. I have seen it happen on a few other things, as well. Some device I wanted for a project I ordered 4 of the 12 the guy had available, the next day he increased the price 50%. WTF?! Asshole much?

 

I supported the original Kickstarter which produced those cases. Got me two clears, and a set of red, white, and blue. Have now used both clears, sent the blue one off to a 99er buddy. I have the red and white one for whatever may come. They did not include the Commodore badge IIRC for copyright/trademark reasons. Fair enough. You can get the badges off the old cases if you like, just takes a little patience.

 

Yes, they come with three screws to close the unit, but you have to provide your own screws for mounting the board and the stands for mounting the keyboard. There is a guy on eBay selling what look to be very good quality 3D-printed keyboard stands.

 

I thought about picking up an 8500, as well, but like you I found the price too steep considering I have plenty of 6510s sitting here. Thankfully I have a good stash of 6526s and 6526As as well, since I appear to have killed my only 8521. I do not think changing the CIAs will make much of a difference in power but I have no proof one way or the other :)

 

I did go ahead and order my "entitled" pair of 8580s from iComp, as well. I am not certain I will use them as I have an irrational preference for the 6581s, but time will tell. I will try them both out in my regular usage scenarios and see which better fits my purposes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I found that PAL VIC 2 is not as common as one might have thought. However, according to this Youtube review, the newer (8565 for PAL) VIC 2 gives a better picture and colors......

 

I don't have and older PAL VIC-II, but there is a big difference in the older 6567 vs the newer 8562 in terms of video quality.

 

Those kickstarter cases are nice except for the issue in some (all?) of the clear units where the damn LED hole is filled with plastic like mine was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I don't have and older PAL VIC-II, but there is a big difference in the older 6567 vs the newer 8562 in terms of video quality.

 

Those kickstarter cases are nice except for the issue in some (all?) of the clear units where the damn LED hole is filled with plastic like mine was.

 

I have no idea in the difference between the late-model 6567 and the 8562. I can give an idea once my 8562s come in.

 

As for the cases, the only problem I have is the badge area where there is a nub jutting out past the badge recess. I thought that might supposed to be an air hole, but checking an original case there is no such hole so I have no idea. I am going to pull the badge of my original case tonight or tomorrow so I will get a better view of what is under it.

 

As for the LED, in my clear cases I will be using a diffused blue with a 4.7k resister so it is not blindingly bright. I have considered putting a strip of purple/UV LEDs under the keyboard but so far nothing has good luminescence quality, including the case. Bummer. Maybe just a strip of faintly glowing white, instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

But, the S-video is exactly what I wanted. I have zero desire to run a C64 over HDMI. Everything I've ever seen HDMI is 16:9 aspect ratio, and I want 4:3.

 

I don't understand what you're saying here. You can easily do 4:3 pillarboxing on a standard 16:9 HDMI-centric display. In fact, that's what most modern classic console recreations with HDMI output do.

 

Personally, I'm all in on HDMI, so I prefer that rather than having to convert anything. Native is best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I don't understand what you're saying here. You can easily do 4:3 pillarboxing on a standard 16:9 HDMI-centric display. In fact, that's what most modern classic console recreations with HDMI output do.

 

Personally, I'm all in on HDMI, so I prefer that rather than having to convert anything. Native is best.

 

True. The SNES Classic Mini and Sega Genesis HD put out 4:3 game screens over HDMI. On the SNES you can change the outer borders.

 

Since everything "retro" is analogue I have no compulsion to move to HDMI unless it is native. So much stuff still comes with composite and S-Video (more the former than the latter, unfortunately) so I can with little difficulty interface all of my old stuff with modern displays. That said, just about every digital display or converter I have run into has the 240p problem, where even if a display or converter will sync with the signal, the signal gets treated as 480i.

 

There are exceptions, and for me the exceptions are the Dell UltraSharp 2001FP and 2007FPb monitors. I have not yet hooked up my DLP projector to the composite but I am certain the problem will exist on that, as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has anybody gambled with these apparently NEW 64C cases, on Ebay???

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 2325900832831?ff3=2&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&item=232590083283&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]

 

I wonder if they come with screws? I'm sure there's no Commodore label, either. While I prefer the original beige "breadbin," my spare/backup one has an awful case. I thought I might put the PAL in one of these new 64C cases to easily distinguish it. You never see the 64C white keyboard for sale, and when you do, it's all yellowed. I guess I'll have to make a white case/brown keyboard bastard, but as long as it works!!! :)

 

I've purchased these before, it's the same guy who did the Kickstarter. They came with 3 screws to close the case.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Better hope that Gidjeon's FPGA implementation of the VIC-II is good enough. The one by Syntiac seems decent, though not perfect. For most games it probably will be perfectly fine, only the bleeding edge demos may suffer but then again some of the older C64's might fail some effects as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I don't have and older PAL VIC-II, but there is a big difference in the older 6567 vs the newer 8562 in terms of video quality.

 

I picked up my 8562s today. I see a difference in the vertical banding -- the 8562 lacks them.

 

6567R8 on C64 Reloaded Mk2

post-27864-0-73165400-1513106738_thumb.jpg

8562R4 on C64 Reloaded Mk2

post-27864-0-43938400-1513106707_thumb.jpg

 

 

Better hope that Gidjeon's FPGA implementation of the VIC-II is good enough. The one by Syntiac seems decent, though not perfect. For most games it probably will be perfectly fine, only the bleeding edge demos may suffer but then again some of the older C64's might fail some effects as well.

 

I read somewhere he is testing it against demos and games. But I just saw this on his page:

 

 

The Ultimate 64 outputs a dimmer version of the previous line just below the main video line. So every line is drawn twice. The dim line gives an awesome CRT effect!

 

 

I hope that feature can be disabled to just double the lines. I do not like the "CRT effect" at all from any system.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...