Tempest 4000

[negative1]

Tempest 4000 should be an arcade game.

 

no thanks, it was a flop when it originally came out, i never saw anyone good at it, or playing it. there were never lines for it.

 

it would do a lot worse now (by the way, i love and still play the original).

 

later

-1

Edited September 19, 2017 by negative1

[Inky]

 

no thanks, it was a flop when it originally came out, i never saw anyone good at it, or playing it. there were never lines for it.

 

it would do a lot worse now (by the way, i love and still play the original).

 

later

-1

The original was a flop? Really? Where do you get your information?

 

There were a total of 28951 Tempest cabinets sold. (source) Pretty damn good, if you ask me.

 

Just because YOU never saw anybody good at it or saw anyone waiting in line to play it doesn't mean it wasn't popular. . The only game I ever saw people waiting to play was Dragon's Lair, and IMHO, that's a terrible game.

[negative1]

The original was a flop? Really? Where do you get your information?

 

There were a total of 28951 Tempest cabinets sold. (source) Pretty damn good, if you ask me.

 

Just because YOU never saw anybody good at it or saw anyone waiting in line to play it doesn't mean it wasn't popular. . The only game I ever saw people waiting to play was Dragon's Lair, and IMHO, that's a terrible game.

 

1) never had a sequel in the arcade

2) not mentioned in the best games or iconic games list like pac-man, space invaders, asteroids ... (it was a very fancy space invaders clone with twists)... (no main character either, the claw?)

3) the hardware though great, has many issues, and finding color vector monitors is hard and they are tricky to fix

4) proprietary controller, unlike the trackball (which has other uses), isn't found on too many other games.. (although microsoft and some other companies make dials for the pc)

5) sales, is a good indicator, but is just one factor in how well a game does, ever see a tempest tournament? ever see see it competitions?

6) only one recent portable version, and it's not even the actual game.. [not including emulated versions on compilations]

 

i had a hard time even finding clips of it on youtube with high level gameplay, hardly anyone has ever mastered the game, most people never even get to the red levels.

 

i've hit light blue levels.... and using continues, got through the invisible, and green levels up to 99... (i have put several videos on youtube showing all the levels).

 

here's some white levels on one of them:

 

sure tempest is a great game, but it's niche appeal at best.... hardly the qualifications of a 'hit' game, it might have had its moment in the sun briefly after coming out,

but many other shooters have surpassed it.

 

later

-1

Edited September 20, 2017 by negative1

[Flojomojo]

How about cult classic. Its not like todays children care about this game.

[Inky]

 

1) never had a sequel in the arcade

 

The movie ET never had a sequel, yet it's far from a flop

 

2) not mentioned in the best games or iconic games list like pac-man, space invaders, asteroids ... (it was a very fancy space invaders clone with twists)... (no main character either, the claw?)

 

 

http://www.arcade-museum.com/TOP100.php

http://www.bmigaming.com/top100arcade.htm

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-best-classic-arcade-games

 

As for the main character.. So what? Defender didn't have anything but a spaceship. Same with Asteroids, except that was only a triangle.

 

3) the hardware though great, has many issues, and finding color vector monitors is hard and they are tricky to fix

 

Irrelevant. Star Wars had a color vector monitor, and back in 83, one magazine called it the best game ever made.

 

 

4) proprietary controller, unlike the trackball (which has other uses), isn't found on too many other games.. (although microsoft and some other companies make dials for the pc)

 

See my answer to #3

 

5) sales, is a good indicator, but is just one factor in how well a game does, ever see a tempest tournament? ever see see it competitions?

 

 

Again, irrelevant.

 

I think this tells it all...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_game#List_of_highest-grossing_games

 

compare Star Wars to Tempest. Tempest OUTPERFORMED STAR WARS, and Star Wars was considered far from a flop.

[Inky]

How about cult classic. Its not like todays children care about this game.

 

My point was originally that Tempest 4000 looks like a cool game, and today's arcades (Funspot, 257, UNderground Retrocade, Star Worlds, Galloping Ghost, Richie Knucklez, etc.) would be a perfect venue for a game that was far from a flop.

[Flojomojo]

I'm sure you're right.

 

today's arcades (Funspot, 257, UNderground Retrocade, Star Worlds, Galloping Ghost, Richie Knucklez, etc.)

 

I wish I had any of these anywhere near where I live. Is it tear-up-my-nerd-card sacrilege that I don't know any of these, except Galloping Ghost by seventh-hand reputation?

[Inky]

I'm sure you're right.

 

 

I wish I had any of these anywhere near where I live. Is it tear-up-my-nerd-card sacrilege that I don't know any of these, except Galloping Ghost by seventh-hand reputation?

Be fair, I only have knowledge of some arcades in the Chicago area. I'd love to do a tour of arcades nationwide, but money and all that crap.

[Flojomojo]

The fact that you know six arcades by name is impressive. The best game collection I know about is in my house, and while that's "impressive," it's no destination.

[AlecRob]

Galloping ghost arcade is awesome!!!!

[Clint Thompson]

Tempest 4000 should be an arcade game.

 

I would take Tempest 2000 in a custom cab with fully decked out graphics and all before I would anything else. I'm wanting Tempest 4000 to play at 4K on my PC and nothing else. I bought a PSTV solely for TxK but found myself still going back to T2K on the Jag. You know what they say about originals...

[dj_convoy]

The fact that you know six arcades by name is impressive. The best game collection I know about is in my house, and while that's "impressive," it's no destination.

Don't back up the Brinks truck to Flojo's. Check.

[Keatah]

Some things:

 

1- I hated Defender in the arcade, not because of the fast action or anything, but the lousy controls. Unnecessarily complex and cumbersome. Therefore I typically skipped over it. I'm pretty sure I played it less than 4 or 5 times total. Now, on the Atari 400/800, Defender was a hit fav of mine. The controls were effectively transparent and I didn't need to think about anything - flowing from wave to wave effortlessly. I don't really care if part of the "Defender experience" is having to master the arcade controls. It's an annoyance to me.

 

2- I watched the video of Tempest 4000. I was not blown away by it. Seems like it's more of the same 'ol same 'ol. As an arcade game I'd likely be non-plussed. Maybe I'm missing something? IDK..? I'd just rather have a premium experience with the original Tempest or Tempest 2000, might as well throw in Typhoon 2001. Between those three versions I can get my fix and not be dissatisfied.

 

How about cult classic. Its not like todays children care about this game.

 

Seems that things earn the label of "cult classic" when enough fans of the thing in question die off or fade away. You are then left with a handful of fanatical devotees. The fan base gets smaller, more intense, and now you have a cult-classic! Seems that way.

 

The best game collection I know about is in my house, and while that's "impressive," it's no destination.

 

Yes the best game collection is the one you have at home, especially with today's technology and convenience features. And I wouldn't consider a modern day arcade a destination. I had ENOUGH of having to beg parents and grandparents for rides to one when I was a kid. And when the arcades started fading in the 1990's and dot-com era I stopped going and never really went back.

 

I checked out 3 modern arcades in the past coupla years. And 2 of them felt way too crowded because the games were packed side-by-side with no breathing room. When I play, I play flamboyantly and freestyle. I need my space to jump around. Like twirling with Gyruss. Or playing Assault from the side.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Keatah

[Flojomojo]

When I play, I play flamboyantly and freestyle. I need my space to jump around. Like twirling with Gyruss. Or playing Assault from the side.

pics or it didn't happen

[negative1]

 

The movie ET never had a sequel, yet it's far from a flop

 

 

Irrelevant. Star Wars had a color vector monitor, and back in 83, one magazine called it the best game ever made.

 

 

See my answer to #3

 

 

Again, irrelevant.

 

I think this tells it all...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_game#List_of_highest-grossing_games

 

compare Star Wars to Tempest. Tempest OUTPERFORMED STAR WARS, and Star Wars was considered far from a flop.

 

movies have nothing to do with videogames, so that doesn't make any sense.

 

sales again, are just one factor, which you keep mentioning over and over again.

 

 

--------------

 

yes, this might be a 'niche' classic game.

 

 

real hits, have sequels, are noticed by the industry, have spin offs and influence other games.. none of which tempest did.

 

fine, so it had some sales, did that mean that games like:

(all have higher grosses - from your wikipedia link)

-------------------

World Club Champion Football

Mushiking: King of the Beetles

Oshare Majo: Love and Berry

 

World Club Champion Football: Intercontinental Clubs

StarHorse3 Season I: A New Legend Begins

Border Break

Sengoku Taisen

Dragon Quest: Monster Battle Road

All deserve the name of 'hits'? and have they all made an impact.

====================================================

fine, maybe it was a financial hit, but not a critical or gaming hit with the fans.

in the early days, selling that many unit was par for the course, so what does that prove.

games that sold less, were much bigger hits:

------------

dig dug

robotron 2048 (mother of all twin stick shooters)

qbert

pole position

missile command

battlezone

breakout

etc

etc

my final point is 'tempest', is a game that is only still even being mentioned because jeff minter bothered to try

keeping it alive.

if it wasn't for him, we still wouldn't even be talking about it now.... it would just be a footnote in gaming history.

later

-1

Edited September 21, 2017 by negative1

[Inky]

B$. You said it was a flop. I've proven it WASN'T, yet you refuse to accept it.

fine, maybe it was a financial hit, but not a critical or gaming hit with the fans.

 

That's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard.

You're just trolling now. Block city.

[Keatah]

Tempest was a hit back then. And the last time I played it was in the real arcade at Level257 (which spaces their games properly). I had a "crowd" of about 3 or 5 people watching as I worked past the Yellow levels. So it can still appeal to today's audience. Would it achieve the fever pitch of popularity it did back in the day? I don't think so. But then what other arcade games do?

 

I can tell you from my little gang of grade school buddies and everything, we always fantasized about having Tempest at home and made up all sorts of imaginary hardware to "make it so". We'd have done almost anything to get it on the Atari 8-bit rigs and always wondered why a COMPUTER couldn't be as good as an arcade game. In then end it was one of those wants that faded away. Some years later Microsoft Arcade would simulate it, and MAME would emulate it. By then we had grown beyond "dumb baby games". But it was nice seeing our old favs come home. We didn't need anything else at that point. We were covered.

 

---

 

In thinking about "3D remakes" and modern stylized re-imaginations of the original arcade games. Nahh. I don't go for that. Most remade and rehashed games exude this weird "presumptuous quality". It's like, "Ohhh you're gonna love this game because it came from THE industry veteran that made the original version." Yeh bullshit on that. They flop more than they fly.

 

I also feel that way about T3K and T4K. There's nothing significantly different about them or between them compared to the original and it's immediate successor T2K. T2K was interesting and I loved it on the 486 back in the day. T2K had some nice additions.

[Impaler_26]

I loved the original Tempest in the arcade but Jeff taught me that I don't like flashing polygonal space games when he released Space Giraffe. When I saw the NIN video with Polybius in it recently that pretty much confirmed I should probably avoid all his games.

 

Yep, i tried the PC version of Space Giraffe a few weeks ago and it's utter shite. So i'm not excited about a new game from Jeff Minter.

That's too bad because i love Tempest 2000 on the Sega Saturn and most of his old games on the C64.

[ubersaurus]

 

Yep, i tried the PC version of Space Giraffe a few weeks ago and it's utter shite. So i'm not excited about a new game from Jeff Minter.

That's too bad because i love Tempest 2000 on the Sega Saturn and most of his old games on the C64.

Space Giraffe looks like Tempest but you really can't play it like Tempest. It's absolutely built on the sound cues more than visual cues and ramming enemies. Certainly not for everyone, but when you "get it" it's pretty cool. TxK is way more in the traditional Tempest 2000 school, though.

[Video]

Tempest was huge though. A lot of them sold, and considering it was more expensive than your traditional arcade cab, that's saying something. Plus arcades sold for one reason, to make money, if it wasn't a money maker, it wouldn't have sold. I also seem to recall it being more expensive, like a 50 cent machine. Dragons lair was a buck iirc. I've only seen a few in my life, and good or bad, people seemed to always be playing it. As for no sequels, I assume you mean in arcades, some games don't really lend themselves well to sequels, though T2k would have made a hell of an arcade game.

 

I'd love to see a T4k arcade, with a nice 4k display, since you can't really get vector monitors anymore. Or maybe project it on a wall.

[BillLoguidice]

Tempest was huge though. A lot of them sold, and considering it was more expensive than your traditional arcade cab, that's saying something. Plus arcades sold for one reason, to make money, if it wasn't a money maker, it wouldn't have sold. I also seem to recall it being more expensive, like a 50 cent machine. Dragons lair was a buck iirc. I've only seen a few in my life, and good or bad, people seemed to always be playing it. As for no sequels, I assume you mean in arcades, some games don't really lend themselves well to sequels, though T2k would have made a hell of an arcade game.

 

I'd love to see a T4k arcade, with a nice 4k display, since you can't really get vector monitors anymore. Or maybe project it on a wall.

Dragon's Lair was the first wide release 50 cent game. Tempest was a quarter.

 

Obviously the arcade today is very different so it's unlikely we'd see a straight up Tempest 4k. It's usually mobile games that get specialized ports. Even modern creations based on Space Invaders and Pac-Man really have little to do with anything else that we would think of as a traditional arcade machine.

[negative1]

Tempest was huge though. A lot of them sold, and considering it was more expensive than your traditional arcade cab, that's saying something. Plus arcades sold for one reason, to make money, if it wasn't a money maker, it wouldn't have sold. I also seem to recall it being more expensive, like a 50 cent machine. Dragons lair was a buck iirc. I've only seen a few in my life, and good or bad, people seemed to always be playing it. As for no sequels, I assume you mean in arcades, some games don't really lend themselves well to sequels, though T2k would have made a hell of an arcade game.

 

Again, that's a misconception. Just because a game sold through to a lot of arcade owners, does that make it a hit? what if nobody plays it. looking at these sales numbers, do you remember all these as being hits?

=================

Machines that sold over 12k units:

==============================

Mr. Do! (30,000 in the US)

 

Popeye (20,000 in the US)

Jungle Hunt (18,000 in the US)

Scramble (15,136 in the US)

Super Cobra (12,337 in the US)

Space Duel (12,038)

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_arcade_video_games

The other games on the list could be considered real hits..

===============================================

And yes, almost every single real arcade hit, had a sequel.

15 of the top games on this list had one.

There wasn't even one considered for tempest.

later

-1

Edited October 15, 2017 by negative1

[Video]

I've played most of those games. It could be where you lived or when, or something, by late 80's yeah arcades in general were in serious decline (they were gone around here) but early to mid, they were really running good. I think things like late gen 8 bit home consoles had a lot to do with that.

 

All I know is the few places I saw tempest, it was always busy, to the point I never got to play it.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

===============================================

And yes, almost every single real arcade hit, had a sequel.

15 of the top games on this list had one.

There wasn't even one considered for tempest.

later

-1

 

 

I just don't see the point you're trying to make here. There were many factors that went into whether or not an arcade game had a sequel, not the least of which is the fact that there were very few direct sequels back then. You often had offshoots or re-imaginings, but rarely anything like direct sequels. One "problem" with Tempest was that it was a hard game to port to the home at the time, even though several attempts were made by Atari, just not released (of course, several clones for home computers were released). It's telling that despite this - and obviously only on the strength of the arcade original - that it was one of the few games chosen for a re-imagining on the Jaguar, then ported or made as a direct sequel on multiple other systems. It's silly to say the original wasn't a well-known, widely available game. It has the numbers in terms of cabinets sold, it has the contemporary magazine coverage, it was clearly a staple at most arcades, it had home port attempts and/or a plethora of clones, and it did in fact eventually have home-based direct sequels in addition to being included on practically every Atari arcade game compilation.

 

I will also state the obvious, that being color vector-based both gave the original game longevity and also pretty much sealed its fate for a "quick" sequel. Because of the technology it really never looked all that dated as time wore on so it could keep bringing in revenue, and, by the time a sequel might be warranted, vector technology was no longer viable and certainly the arcade market was itself greatly weakened and had different gameplay demands. Regardless, again, it says a lot about Tempest's actual popularity that time and again it has reappeared despite not having any official home ports until 1993 with Microsoft Arcade (and that on that compilation it was included among four other all-time Atari arcade greats).

 

Finally, I think it says a great deal that so little has had to have been changed gameplay-wise and even looks-wise from the original to its many sequels. That's kind of crazy when you think about it. I can't really think of very many other games with so many sequels with so little relative deviation from what was arguably perfected first-time out. You take away the psychedelics and it really is pretty much the same darn game.

[Flojomojo]

It sounds like -1 doesn't/didn't much like Tempest, then or now. That's fine to have opinions ... I don't much care for Final Fantasy, but that doesn't mean other people aren't enjoying it. Tempest is always among the top sought-after games on KLOV, the people who hunt down these machines and collect them. http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=10065

 

I personally would consider Mr. Do, Super Cobra, Popeye, et al to be hits. I remember them fondly, they're still fun to play, they got a lot of home ports which reinforced their popularity.

 

Tempest is abstract and weird, and less inviting than something like Centipede, but it was definitely a hit. Atari wouldn't have bothered to distribute 29,000 Tempest cabinets if no one was playing the game.

 

That number is funny though ... 29,000 copies sold would be a best selling book, but a failure for something like a mobile game or movie launch. Isn't it weird how we essentially had to go to "movie theaters" (arcades) to play high end games back then?