tep392 Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Why do you perpetuate your made up "wafer drive" name for the "Atarimax Ultimate SD Multi-cart"? If I google the "wafer drive" it just leads me to your Ebay listing. Oh, I get it now. 5 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Sounds like Mr. Tucker developed a new PCB and custom case to produce the unit with attainable components and likely at a lower cost. He also mentions having converted three games from Atari 8-bit "to celebrate the release." The increase in SRAM and bank switching mode is interesting, but I have no idea how often that will ever get used. The new case, ehhh, looks a bit too Colecovisiony to me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Nice cart, but I don't own any wafer drives so I won't be able to use it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) Not a nice design. You're gonna hafta insert/remove the cartridge by gripping the label. That's wear it out. Too much minimalistic design with emphasis on the wrong elements. And what's that ungly-ass hole there? An aesthetic breaker 2BShur. I suppose something had to be done. The 5200 cart look was/is getting long in the tooth and very very 80's. 1 hour ago, Stephen said: Nice cart, but I don't own any wafer drives so I won't be able to use it. The label says it's an SD Multi-Cart. So you should be able to use it!! Just don't get the WaferDrive, because I don't know where you'll get them waferz! Edited November 9, 2022 by Keatah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) I'm at RadioShack now and I've got questions. Do you have answers? 1- Couldn't that hole have been put on the back or something? 2- Why do we have a Wafer Drive and an SD Multi-Cart? What is the difference in the hardware that warrants a $20 price premium? 3- On 8/28/2017 at 6:12 AM, HDTV1080P said: 5. There are over 1.25 billion Windows PC’s in the world that can play Atari 5200 games with a software emulation program. An internal or external SDXC card reader can be purchased for under $5 that allows over a billion people to play the Atari 5200 SD Wafer rom images. Therefore distributing ones Atari 5200 games on SD Wafer media allows over 1.25 billion people to have the potential to play the game. Releasing the game on a physical cartridge limits the sales to a small amount of people with a 1982-1984 Atari 5200 game system. Potential is just potential. Nothing realized. Can sit and rot on the shelf for decades. Sounds impressive on paper. But reality. Pffft! Pretty sure there aren't even 300,000 emulator downloads for the 8-bits. Most people won't go through the trouble of buying something on SD cards just to play on emulators. Especially if they have the original hardware. Emulator users are going to just get free games from internet. Folks that have original hardware are generally gonna stick with it. They've gone through the trouble to acquire and maintain it and aren't gonna downgrade to inferior shitty reproductions via emulation on Windows 11. And even with legit freeware games, no one is gonna be interested in buying an SD card. They're just gonna visit internet archive. So much more convenient - which is what emulators are all about! You don't buy physical media to play on a virtual machine. Plenty of cognitive dissonance right there. 4- On 8/28/2017 at 6:12 AM, HDTV1080P said: 6. SD Copy protection technology: Making a quality game for the Atari 5200 can take several months or years. There is technology that makes it impossible to copy a SD card so that the Atari 5200 game rom image cannot be duplicated with a simple copy and paste technique on a Windows PC. Game developers that want to protect their hard work from being copied can release all their games on copy protected SD media. Cartridges released today do not use copy protection, so SD media with copy protection is more secure to protect peoples hard work. If copy protection becomes too much of a hassle or too draconian, people will simply do without. There's like a billion other titles to keep me occupied. There've been several titles I was interested in over the ages, but when confronted with all the loopholes and caveats and gotchas I just didn't bother. Can't even remember them. Just sort of fell into oblivion and forgotten. Didn't even consider buying them because I don't like my purchases restricted to one device. Didn't even put them on my "to-purchase" list either. Edited November 9, 2022 by Keatah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDTV1080P Posted November 9, 2022 Author Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stephen said: Nice cart, but I don't own any wafer drives so I won't be able to use it. The ATARIMAX cartridge for the Atart 5200 and ColecoVision/ADAM have two official names with the only difference being the label. The one label is called “Ultimate SD Multi-Cart”. The second label is called “Ultimate SD Wafer Drive”. They are the same thing with the only difference being the label. Some people like the old 80’s Wafer Drive concept that Coleco and others mentioned, so if one likes that concept they request from ATARIMAX the Wafer Drive label. A SD or SDHC card up to 32GB is used for the product. Some people call it a SDHC wafer card. With inflation going on I was surprised that the new improved design was not $149.95, however for now ATARIMAX told me that it well be the same price as the old cartridge which is $129.95. I believe that the new and improved components are more common to find, and that is the reason no price increase. So sometimes one can have improvements in new electronic products while maintaining the exact same price. Edited November 9, 2022 by HDTV1080P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDTV1080P Posted November 9, 2022 Author Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Keatah said: Not a nice design. You're gonna hafta insert/remove the cartridge by gripping the label. That's wear it out. Too much minimalistic design with emphasis on the wrong elements. And what's that ungly-ass hole there? An aesthetic breaker 2BShur. I suppose something had to be done. The 5200 cart look was/is getting long in the tooth and very very 80's. This Atari 5200 cartridge from ATARIMAX has a cartridge shell that inserts and removes exactly the same as any other Atari 5200 cartridge from the 1980’s. One does not have to hold the label, they can grip the sides where there is two small areas on the side to pull the cartridge out. Also for the first time a new Atari 5200 injection mold was created (which is estimated by some to have cost around $6,000). So instead of using used recycled Atari 5200 cartridge shells, brand new custom Atarimax cartridge shell is used with a shielded 4 layer printed circuit board. Edited November 9, 2022 by HDTV1080P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 So all you do is re-sell the existing Atari Max devices with a stupid "wafer drive" name on them? 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 What's that ugly-ass hole there? An aesthetic breaker 2BShur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Keatah said: What's that ugly-ass hole there? An aesthetic breaker 2BShur. What a difference punctuation can make. Ugly-ass hole. Ugly ass-hole. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, HDTV1080P said: Some people call it a SDHC wafer card. Nobody does that. Only you do. https://www.google.com/search?q="sdhc+wafer+card" Edited November 10, 2022 by ivop 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGHMW Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 On 11/9/2022 at 10:34 AM, Greg2600 said: Sounds like Mr. Tucker developed a new PCB and custom case to produce the unit with attainable components and likely at a lower cost. He also mentions having converted three games from Atari 8-bit "to celebrate the release." The increase in SRAM and bank switching mode is interesting, but I have no idea how often that will ever get used. The new case, ehhh, looks a bit too Colecovisiony to me. I like it. In fact now it matches the ColecoVision SD multicart and with the addition of double the capacity of my current one I just might upgrade to her when I also get the ColecoVision SD multicart after all of my bills and/or obligations are fulfilled. Now I wonder if perhaps the ColecoVision SD Multicart will have double the capacity too since we 5200 owners now have an improved one. Plus you can't go wrong with having that hard reset button added on to this cart as opposed to having to power cycle the unit to play a new game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 On 8/28/2017 at 4:12 AM, HDTV1080P said: There is a product on the market for Atari 5200 owners that is called the “Ultimate SD Wafer Drive” by ATARIMAX (also known as Ultimate SD cartridge on its old style label name). The Ultimate SD Wafer Drive has been produced in huge QTY’s and can be purchased directly on Amazon and EBAY. It ships with a fully licensed version of Beef Drop (32KB) Atari 5200 game on a 8GB SDHC media. One’s entire Atari 5200 cartridge rom image collection can fit on one SDHC wafer card. The following are only a few advantages of the Ultimate SD Wafer Drive 1. It allows game developers to distribute games on low cost SD media. Blank 2GB size SD wafer cards can be purchased from online venders for only around $2 each (blank 8GB SDHC for around $2.50 each). Low cost 32GB SDHC wafer cards can be purchased from many different venders for under $10 if one needs that much space to distribute games. If the Atari game developers back in the 80’s would have had the ability to create videogames with 32GB of storage space for under $10, the quality of the games would have been something the world has never seen before. With 32GB of storage space programmers do not have to worry about trying to fit their games in a small amount of space. Now having a full 32GB of space for games has become a reality. 2. A future firmware update for the Ultimate SD Wafer Drive will offer full support for up to 2TB SDXC wafer cards with exFAT file support. 3. Current firmware supports up to 32GB SDHC wafer cards for programmers that want to create huge games and programs (The actual capacity of the current hardware is to allow up to 4MB of data to be loaded at any moment. A game developer can page data in and out from the 32GB SDHC wafer cards as needed, which means a programmer can literally make one large Atari 5200 videogame that takes up the entire 32GB of space on the SDHC wafer media). 4. Distributing games on SD wafer media is much more cheaper and powerful than game cartridges. 5. There are over 1.25 billion Windows PC’s in the world that can play Atari 5200 games with a software emulation program. An internal or external SDXC card reader can be purchased for under $5 that allows over a billion people to play the Atari 5200 SD Wafer rom images. Therefore distributing ones Atari 5200 games on SD Wafer media allows over 1.25 billion people to have the potential to play the game. Releasing the game on a physical cartridge limits the sales to a small amount of people with a 1982-1984 Atari 5200 game system. 6. SD Copy protection technology: Making a quality game for the Atari 5200 can take several months or years. There is technology that makes it impossible to copy a SD card so that the Atari 5200 game rom image cannot be duplicated with a simple copy and paste technique on a Windows PC. Game developers that want to protect their hard work from being copied can release all their games on copy protected SD media. Cartridges released today do not use copy protection, so SD media with copy protection is more secure to protect peoples hard work. 7. A future third party firmware update could make SD media 100% secure from being copied: Videogame developers that want to protect their hard work from being copied, could in the future release secure encrypted games onto SD media. With a third party firmware update to the Ultimate SD Wafer Drive, it would be possible to make an encryption system with a digital serial number key that would marry the SD card wafer game to only one Ultimate SD Wafer Drive. Making videogames is a time consuming process. In the 21st Century game programmers now have better tools to create videogames when compared to the technology Atari used in the early 80’s to create videogames. If research and development was spent with Supercomputers, it would be possible to create state of the art tools that would allow game developers to speed up the game developing process. Using a touchpad onscreen drawing interface and a supercomputer one could greatly speed up the Atari 5200 game code development time. If greater tools were created for 8 bit videogame systems like the Atari 5200 then amazing large 32GB size games could be created by a team of programmers in a few months instead of years. Opening up the games to be sold to a potential customer base of 1.25 billion people or more would create an entire new market for classic 8 bit videogames even if only less than 1% of those people were to purchase the game, one is looking at lot of Atari 5200 SD wafer game media being sold. A talented programmer could create games more popular than even Pacman and Donkey Kong by using their creative imagination. More detailed information To help make things more clear I am creating this add on post that hopefully will answer everyone’s questions. 1. Distributing games on SD media and using copy protection has nothing to do with ATARIMAX and their cartridges: There are different types of copy protection technologies and encryption technologies that keep data secure on SD cards. There is secure and so far unbreakable encryption technologies like 256 bit AES and 448 bit blowfish technology that keeps data secure. Now I understand that once one uses an authorized key to unlock that encryption and to covert the file to a standard unencrypted file, that the file or rom image can be copied and read once its back in its unencrypted state. Therefore, the purpose of the first post was to bring people’s attention that some different types of copy protection and/or encryption technology can be used on the SD media itself that would protect the media from being copied with a simple copy and paste in Windows, MAC, or Linux machine. Preventing the copy from occurring on the Windows PC, MAC, and Linux computer is the most important place to protect the SD Wafer rom image from being copied and not the cartridge SD wafer drive. 2. The existing firmware in the Ultimate SD Wafer Drive is designed to read Atari 5200 or ColecoVision/ADAM videogames on cartridge that do not use any encryption or copy protection technology (Which is 100% of all current ROM images): Currently many people use the ATARIMAX Ultimate SD Wafer Drive to play classic public domain rom images for ColecoVision/ADAM and ATARI 5200 games that they have downloaded from various websites. In addition, some commercial ROM images are for sale on various third party websites that people purchase and can play with a PC with emulation program, or with the ATARIMAX Ultimate SD Wafer Drive on a real console. Game developers also use the Ultimate SD Wafer Drive to play their homemade videogames on an actual console. 3. ATARIMAX firmware update information: ATARIMAX is currently working on an Official firmware update that will offer exFAT file support. Once that firmware update is released consumers can use up to 2TB SDXC wafer cards in theory. Currently in the year 2017 512GB SDXC cards are the largest available on the market; however in the lab 1TB and 2TB SDXC cards are being worked on for a future release in the years to come. So one day a 2TB size videogame for the ColecoVision/ADAM and ATARI 5200 system could become a reality if one had the time in their lifetime to make a videogame that size (Using Super computers with specially made software, one could greatly reduce the development time since the computer would write automated code with a graphic interface). 4. A Possible future firmware update from a third party programmer can make copy protection and/or encryption technology possible in the Ultimate SD Wafer Drive cartridge: With my communication with ATARIMAX it was my understanding that anyone can make a special firmware update for the Ultimate SD Wafer Drive that would allow a game programmer to use copy protection and/or encryption technology with a digital serialized key that is unique to each cartridge. This means a SD wafer game can be serialized to run on only one Ultimate SD Wafer Drive. This would most likely be a third party firmware update only. However, it is my understanding that if enough videogame developers want this copy protection technology inside the Ultimate SD Wafer Drive cartridge, then ATARIMAX would consider maybe writing a firmware update to offer that feature. that. is. awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 On 12/25/2022 at 10:00 AM, BIGHMW said: I like it. In fact now it matches the ColecoVision SD multicart and with the addition of double the capacity of my current one I just might upgrade to her when I also get the ColecoVision SD multicart after all of my bills and/or obligations are fulfilled. Now I wonder if perhaps the ColecoVision SD Multicart will have double the capacity too since we 5200 owners now have an improved one. Plus you can't go wrong with having that hard reset button added on to this cart as opposed to having to power cycle the unit to play a new game. Let's be real though- the 5200 beats the colecovision. (Hardware wise) Only reason Coleco did better was the games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDTV1080P Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) ColecoVision is more powerful then the Atari 5200. Both are good systems, but the ColecoVision had the front expansion that allowed the ADAM computer to be used with Supegames with 256KB size on DDP in 1983 versus the 1982 ColecoVision cartridge games were limited to 32KB. Buck Rodgers the supergame in 1983 used around 144KB of space, others used up to 256KB of space like an Electronic workbook. Edited December 28, 2022 by HDTV1080P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, HDTV1080P said: ColecoVision is more powerful then the Atari 5200. Both are good systems, but the ColecoVision had the front expansion that allowed the ADAM computer to be used with Supegames with 256KB size on DDP in 1983 versus the 1982 ColecoVision cartridge games were limited to 32KB. Buck Rodgers the supergame in 1983 used around 144KB of space, others used up to 256KB of space like an Electronic workbook. You sure? Sure it did that, but then again, Colecovision couldn't handle: 256 colors at 80*192 Sprites with a background of 320*192 A full extra layer using sprites ORing capabilities between sprites Samples (Easily) 256 colors period. OFFICIAL, LEGAL 2600 adapters Color ORing Conner&Anthony (It doesn't have sufficient sprite capabilities) A multicolor mode with a resolution GREATER than 64*48 And it didn't have: Didn't have a computer cousin which WAS successful AND reliable Didn't have 4 player (Depending on the model you got) Didn't have 14 unique graphics modes Didn't have more than 2 types of waveforms (Square and noise. Atari had 4 without tricks) for sound Didn't have 16KB of SHARED memory between systems (So that you could write to "VRAM" quickly) Didn't have the ability to multiplex video modes (Antic can make each row of the screen a different mode.) Couldn't run at over 320 pixels horizontal (The Atari could do 360!) Couldn't do more than 2 colors in 320 mode (Player ORing capabilities) I could go on. The only reason it did better was the games on coleco were better than the 5200, and the controller on the 5200... was....... unless you repaired it. But then there's the Atari 8bit! The Coleco adam was TERRIBLE. It sold AWFUL. And many returned it. I do my research. And heck, the ADAM is literally a ram expansion with a keyboard and other things attached. So now we bring in the Atari 8bit compys. Yeah. You see where I'm going don't you. Just saying. No need to continue this. But, even with 256KB capabilities on the Coleco, I could EASILY do a simple mapper design to get over 4mb on the 5200. I'm not going to lie, Coleco was cool. It had high resolution for goodness sake! We didn't get a good controler, a great library of games, or (Probably the most mario-like game BEFORE mario) an awesome port of Smurfs on the 5200. Heck, we didn't even get Donkey kong. But coleco did. Atari didn't get Donkey kong jr. But Coleco did. Atari didn't make (While not great) small arcade cabinets. BUT COLECO DID. The 5200 hardware is superior though. I'm not going to go on and on with this because it's not going to end well (for either of us) and plus, conner&anthony is my priority over internet warfare. (Edit: I still remember that story where two guys were having an internet argument and then one got so mad he came to the other guy and shot him in the butt. That really did happen. I don't want something similar happening again.) Edited December 28, 2022 by Ecernosoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Software on SD cards can't be protected. And why is this guy still insisting on spruiking the Atarimax cart as if he's the one that makes them? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Rybags said: Software on SD cards can't be protected. And why is this guy still insisting on spruiking the Atarimax cart as if he's the one that makes them? Because man - WAFERS. 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 4 hours ago, Rybags said: And why is this guy still insisting on spruiking the Atarimax cart as if he's the one that makes them? It's that certain personality type. Spot'em a mile away.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Stephen said: Because man - WAFERS. Also the Wafer is. literally. the. opposite. of. awesome. Too bad scroll wheels that scroll up don't exist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Back in the day SuperGames were a fart'na'bottle. Mythical even. 5200 is better hardware. But Colecovision had a better game selection and it complemented the Atari Computer lineup far better than the 5200. I already had a 400/800 rig and the 5200 was basically more of the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 On 12/25/2022 at 1:00 PM, BIGHMW said: I like it. In fact now it matches the ColecoVision SD multicart and with the addition of double the capacity of my current one I just might upgrade to her when I also get the ColecoVision SD multicart after all of my bills and/or obligations are fulfilled. Now I wonder if perhaps the ColecoVision SD Multicart will have double the capacity too since we 5200 owners now have an improved one. Plus you can't go wrong with having that hard reset button added on to this cart as opposed to having to power cycle the unit to play a new game. I truly do not expect this "double capacity" to amount to much of anything, ever. The reset button however is definitely appealing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Rybags said: Software on SD cards can't be protected. And why is this guy still insisting on spruiking the Atarimax cart as if he's the one that makes them? He's right. Unless you make some sort of special or encrypted SD card, your game is UNSELLABLE once someone gets it. And even if you did make a special card it would only work for so long. Then again, who is trying to sell atari software like they will make a decent profit off of it? That's why I make my stuff public, so that casual people can try it. Of course that can (and will eventually) change with my modern projects, but that's down the line, and not related to Atari, so I'm not going to bring them up here. Edit: And plus, the Atarimax is good. We don't need a competition here. It's like Dragonfly vs Concerto. We don't need threads to discuss things that get us NOWHERE. Edited December 28, 2022 by Ecernosoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Keatah said: Back in the day SuperGames were a fart'na'bottle. Mythical even. 5200 is better hardware. But Colecovision had a better game selection and it complemented the Atari Computer lineup far better than the 5200. I already had a 400/800 rig and the 5200 was basically more of the same. THANK YOU. I've been waiting FOREVER for someone to finally say this!!!!! I will say that the coleco got some great games. But even something as simple as this is impossible for the coleco: And plus, when you have AMAZING demos like NUMEN on the 8bit, that can be ported to the 5200 (with extra RAM of course). I looked up colecovision, SG1000, and even MSX (All of these are practically identical) and NONE can do AMAZING 3D graphics like this: 6 hours ago, remowilliams said: Also the Wafer is. literally. the. opposite. of. awesome. Too bad scroll wheels that scroll up don't exist. (wut es a wafer?) 6 hours ago, Keatah said: It's that certain personality type. Spot'em a mile away.. Those people stink. It's really unfortunate. When someone has such a big idea that it backfires on them in the eyes of the public, their reputation can be easily ruined, especially on places like the internet. (intelevision amico cough cough ) 4 hours ago, Greg2600 said: The reset button however is definitely appealing. Agreed. The one thing I hate about concerto (and some other flash drives) is that when I want to switch games, I need to completely turn off and back on the entire thing. I never brought this up to @batari since he's such a nice man, he takes all this time to do all these great things and I don't think I need to get on his case for lacking a reset button. 4 hours ago, Greg2600 said: I truly do not expect this "double capacity" to amount to much of anything, ever. 16gb is already insane for 7800 games. 2600 games as well, since they can be larger and there's more of them. On the other hand, the 5200?!?!?!? I can't recall a SINGLE GAME over 32K. And there's not that many, even including homebrews. 9 hours ago, Stephen said: Because man - WAFERS. I'm taking your word for this that these wafers suck and that I'm fortunate for not knowing about them. Edited December 28, 2022 by Ecernosoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 You can suck on wafers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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