+remowilliams Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 lol, pretty much any game system discussed in the classic section here at Atari Age is dead technology. Well yes of course, but people are generally interested in playing (and maintaining) the game system and not the display device Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3846237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaWarrior Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I did read the 1st post & I disagree I guess he don't know about Component Video Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3846360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatPix Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Except that Component is as dead as composite and S-Video on modern displays. And more consoles have RGB internally or even right out of the box than component. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3846933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Phruby Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 The point is to get off component, composite and s-video and use a modern TV. I will never buy a CRT from a thrift store to play games on. Everything must go to HDMI ultimately. But I also don't want to buy a $400 board made by one guy in Poland after getting on his waiting list for years and prepaying for it. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 But I also don't want to buy a $400 board made by one guy in Poland after getting on his waiting list for years and prepaying for it. That's understandable and one of the reasons I went with Lotharek's Hydra over gscart - i.e. I could actually buy one. Solaris does have the XRGB-mini in stock however... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratwurst Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Get a $30 Chinese scart to hdmi box and call it a day! 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) The point is to get off component, composite and s-video and use a modern TV. I will never buy a CRT from a thrift store to play games on. Everything must go to HDMI ultimately. But I also don't want to buy a $400 board made by one guy in Poland after getting on his waiting list for years and prepaying for it.Quite an exaggeration there. You can have an OSSC by December for around 200 bucks. https://www.videogameperfection.com/products/open-source-converter/ ZOMG!! 3 Months, what a terribly long time. I'm assuming you're an adult who can overcome the need for instant gratification, right? Edited September 13, 2017 by keepdreamin Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
derFunkenstein Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Get a $30 Chinese scart to hdmi box and call it a day! what kind of lag do these produce? I do have an Genesis 1 to SCART cable that I could use as a guinnea pig with my HDMI monitor (which doesn't seem to have any inherent input issues with my PC anyway) Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratwurst Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Not a bad outline of what to expect. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Get a $30 Chinese scart to hdmi box and call it a day! Yup, this ^ 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 what kind of lag do these produce? I do have an Genesis 1 to SCART cable that I could use as a guinnea pig with my HDMI monitor (which doesn't seem to have any inherent input issues with my PC anyway) I never really noticed any when I had mine. But that was a long time ago now. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
derFunkenstein Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) Not a bad outline of what to expect. Looks like the upscaler and HDMI connection add around an 50 extra milliseconds. I haven't measured but the baseline 100ms is probably around what my old 2006 Westinghouse TV with component and S-Video add. It's enough to feel it, to be sure. If I had a TV that didn't have that much lag, that would help, and adding more latency is just not appealing. I just haven't bought a TV with a low latency yet. 50 milliseconds is three frames of lag, and so the device is probably running three frame buffers. Get that down to two and we might have a deal once I have a decent game-mode-equipped TV. Edited September 13, 2017 by derFunkenstein Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratwurst Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Certainly no endorsement from myself, the person who started this thread seems deadset on skipping the final step to maximizing their transition to RGB and LCD televisions, so that's about as good as it's going to get. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Phruby Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 Quite an exaggeration there. You can have an OSSC by December for around 200 bucks. https://www.videogameperfection.com/products/open-source-converter/ ZOMG!! 3 Months, what a terribly long time. I'm assuming you're an adult who can overcome the need for instant gratification, right? Don't be a condescending jerk. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Phruby Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 Certainly no endorsement from myself, the person who started this thread seems deadset on skipping the final step to maximizing their transition to RGB and LCD televisions, so that's about as good as it's going to get. I just hate the price tag and the fact it's not readily available and they want prepayment. The XM project taught me to never give anyone money unless the item is in hand and being shipped. It's too risky for the price. The regular upscaler you brought up would seem to work or I can just leave the Jaguar/Saturn alone with the s-video. I just don't understand the condescending behavior of some people on this thread. You think they were personally losing money on my decision. Besides, I don't see the argument being strong enough to spend that kind of money and jump through those kind of hoops to get perfection. Hell, the tv it will connect to isn't all that great. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I will say from a friend's experience: He got RGB cables and used a cheaper upscaler to connect them to his HD tv. Said it worked all right, but the forced widescreen drove him nuts. After a few weeks he went and got a Framemeister and hasn't looked back since. So if you're willing to handle the tradeoffs and lesser flexibility of a not-expensive upscaler then I'd say go for it. I've got a Framemeister, a component cable converter for my CRT, and a Sony PVM monitor myself, so lord knows I've sunk in my money. I can say that while the jump from s-video to RGB isn't massive on something like the Saturn or SNES, going from composite to RGB is night and day regardless of your television setup. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) Don't be a condescending jerk. Fine. Don't be a negative Nellie who fabricates "issues" simply to complain. The Framemeister has been around for over half a decade, I don't understand how people couldn't have put together enough Scratch to buy one by now Edited September 13, 2017 by keepdreamin Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I will say from a friend's experience: He got RGB cables and used a cheaper upscaler to connect them to his HD tv. Said it worked all right, but the forced widescreen drove him nuts. After a few weeks he went and got a Framemeister and hasn't looked back since. So if you're willing to handle the tradeoffs and lesser flexibility of a not-expensive upscaler then I'd say go for it. I've got a Framemeister, a component cable converter for my CRT, and a Sony PVM monitor myself, so lord knows I've sunk in my money. I can say that while the jump from s-video to RGB isn't massive on something like the Saturn or SNES, going from composite to RGB is night and day regardless of your television setup. Biggest issue with the cheap scaler is it will interlace 240P. Once stuff starts moving it will blur out. 6:30 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vattari Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 You speak with anyone who has one of these? Or is this just a blind order? The $50 scaler is a mixed bag, I can't image what one for 16 bucks is like. I had one of these and it only does Composite video to HDMI conversion. I used it with my modded 2600. This generally can be purchased for around AUD$17. This one here will accept a composite, S-Video, RGB, and HDMI signal for upscaling. https://www.ebay.com.au/i/252992266632 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Gull Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Interesting. I almost considered SCART but I see the side of cost vs other options. when you get a number of systems added to the mix the cost could be really prohibited or perhaps your yearly gift to yourself for Christmas in its investment. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3847935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Clae Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) Scart is the way to go. Use a Scart to component converter for consumer CRT's. And a Framemeister for modern TV's. I currently don't use any switcher. Edited September 14, 2017 by DJ Clae Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3848035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) Except that Component is as dead as composite and S-Video on modern displays. And more consoles have RGB internally or even right out of the box than component. My TV is around 5 years old now and already has no S-Vid or VGA, but still has SCART and Component. I just installed a couple of brand new (current gen) panels recently, HDMI across the board, no SCART and no analogue tuner for RF. Amazingly the OLED still had composite video, which I find incredible in itself, but that was it. The 75" Sony LED panel had Component also, but you've got to wonder for how long... Another thing to bear in mind is that the low resolution image handling on modern sets is very much not a priority these days. I find it amazing they even bother at all to be honest with you. but my Panasonic for example, which is not a new set by any means, has piss poor low res image handling across the legacy inputs, even though it's got them. The £30 Chinese scaler is a marked improvement on the internal scaling and handling of SCART. When I plugged my C64 into the analogue RF tuner I thought the C64 was broken the image was so bad. Yet into an old Sony CRT it's one of the best RF images I've ever seen. We're trying to make old standards and kit work on new displays that are just not designed to handle that any more. We have to do more processing just to get the image to the panel's native res these days (240p up to 2160p...), and all that processing also comes with a cost in lag. Really it's getting to the stage that the only options for our legacy kit is to either plug it into a legacy display, or use an external box to turn it into something the TV can deal with and just put up with the fact that a giant super high res panel is going to be utterly ruthless with even very good scaled low res signal. Edited September 15, 2017 by juansolo Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3848552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatPix Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 No SCART already? France stopped making SCART mandatory on new TV this year only. I still see TV with SCART here, but for all I care those might be "old" models still on sale. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3848860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 No SCART already? France stopped making SCART mandatory on new TV this year only. I still see TV with SCART here, but for all I care those might be "old" models still on sale. Yep that surprised me as well, but none to be seen on either set. That said the single SCART socket on my elderly Panasonic is pretty much useless anyhow given how badly it plays with most devices. I expect next gen will be HDMI only, there really isn't much left to drop now. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3848939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 My solution is relatively simple; small, old TV with RF for my very old consoles, newer CRT with S Video and component input for the vast bulk of my collection, and modern consoles on the HDTV. I realize that not everyone has the room or inclination for this, but that's how my setup works. I've never measured the lag on my several years old Samsung (older is a bit of a bonus, as it has component, as well), but it seems to do okay, even with a Retron hooked up to it, or a PS2 or a Wii running Virtual Console or Gamecube stuff. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/269861-scart-for-ntsc-consoles/page/2/#findComment-3848944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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