HDTV1080P Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Walmart is selling 40 ColecoVision Flashback games for $17.99. The 40 rom images are downloaded to a Windows PC and played on a dedicated ColecoVision Flashback program that works on any Windows PC. I have not purchased this product, however it must be exactly the same as the ColecoVision Flashback standalone system, with the only difference is one is using a Windows PC instead of a physical standalone Flashback system (and there are 20 less games). Of course the picture and sound quality will be better on a Windows PC. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Colecovision-Flashback-40-Game-Pack-PC-Digital-Download/55397721 However with several websites now offering free ColecoVision/ADAM cartridge rom images for free download with a free PC ColecoVision/ADAM emulator, in theory very few people will purchase this product from Walmart that is listed as an official Coleco product on the Walmart website. Perhaps after 35 years maybe many of the previously copyrighted ColecoVision/ADAM games from the early 80’s might now be public domain. However if several of these classic videogames are not public domain and still have valid copyrights, then maybe Coleco and other companies might want to have these 3rd party websites remove any copyrighted rom images located on many websites from around the world. Some websites in the USA and other parts of the world only offer free legal public domain rom images and legal licensed pay per download commercial rom images. However there are some websites in the world that offer illegal copyrighted videogame rom images for download for videogame systems like Sega and Nintendo. Edited September 12, 2017 by HDTV1080P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblenkle Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 If this is an officially licensed "Coleco" product, good luck selling it to anyone here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDTV1080P Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 If this is an officially licensed "Coleco" product, good luck selling it to anyone here. According to Walmart it is "by Coleco". I think Coleco partnered with Atgames Flashback to make this product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Yes, it is an AtGames release. Not new, not very good, but legit.https://www.direct2drive.com/#!/download-colecovision-flashback--40-game-pack/5009226They also have 10 and 20 game versions.The 40-pack is on Steam, too. The reviews are exactly as warm and loving to Coleco as the "strong-arming" thread is.http://store.steampowered.com/app/529860/ColecoVision_Flashback/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Copyrights for these games are 75 years in the United States. I haven't seen any evidence that ATGames or RWB/Coleco has rights to these games or credited any copyrights to the rightfull owners. Many of these games like Zaxxon, Venture, and BumpNJump belonged to old Coleco, with graphics/sound copyrights to Sega, G-mode, HR Kaufman for example. Coleco was a public company that no longer exists and their copyrights might be considered unenforceable. Some countries like Canada and the UK may have laws that address this sutuation. But AT Games or RWB/Coleco would have no more right to the game code than you or I. There's a few Imagic games, and Imagic was a private company that no longer exists but its shareholders and their heirs do. They might not care to enforce their copyrights. There's lots of individuals and companies whose rights may have been violated here. The only thing RWB/Coleco might have legally claimed are some trademarks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Maybe so, but who is going to enforce it? Imagic's legal department, from beyond the grave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Maybe so, but who is going to enforce it? Imagic's legal department, from beyond the grave?I think Imagic shareholders like Bill Grubb are still alive. The point is buying this stuff from ATGames might not give you legitimate copies of the games if that is a concern. The games can easily be found elsewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northcoastgamer Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 The Colecovision Flashback was and is garbage to begin with. Play Miner 2049er or The Heist for example,and watch how painfully slow the speed of the games are compared to playing them on a Colecovision. As you collect the paintings in Heist, the games speed gradually increases to normal. That is some fine beta testing there folks! Shameful! Save your money and avoid the Colecovision Flashback or any CV Flashback digital downloads. Take your kids or better half out for some ice cream, you will truly enjoy it more! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Yeah this is not a new product, it's been around for years. While I realize it's AT Games and not directly Coleco I would still not suggest buying it just because it's not an amazing product. I'd download CoolCV and the ROMs that have been available for years instead. It's better emulation and compatible with Mac/PC/Linux/Pi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 AtGames owns Direct2Drive (D2D), which has a partnership with several retailers now, including Wal-Mart. This is the same package AtGames has previously been selling. As for legality, this is as legal as is currently possible. As was stated multiple times in the past, AtGames does not use anything without a legitimate license. We also have a partnership with Activision (who also owns many Imagic properties), so there's no issue there either. Naturally, if there's a challenge to Riverwest/Coleco's ownership of anything, it hasn't happened yet. If for some reason it was shown that those properties were not in Riverwest/Coleco's possession, then I'm sure AtGames would address it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Which Imagic coleco vision games does Activision own? From whom were the Bumpnjump and Zaxxon games licensed; there's multiple copyright owners with each of those games? I realise that ATGames doesn't have to explain anything. Its between them and the copyright owners and I havent heard of RWB/Coleco claiming any copyrights other than licensing deals with Rainbow bright and robotech. But have they credited any copyrights at all on the packaging? (Why doesn't it say copyright Activision for example) Edit: It might be true that it is not possible to legally license some of these games in the United States. Take a look at the upcoming Intellivision version of Miner 2049er. It says on the packaging licensed from Big Five software and copyright Bill Hogue. And that's just for the graphics/sound/trademarks and not the game code. http://intellivisionrevolution.com/entries/intellivision-homebrew-games/miner-2049er-coming-to-the-intellivision-from-elektronite Edited September 12, 2017 by mr_me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I don't want to say what Imagic games Activision owns at this time because it would spoil what's included on the Activision Edition of the Atari Flashback HD (the final list has still not been revealed). I think only a few Imagic games that they own are not specifically included, but I don't know all the details or the true depth of their holdings. Anyway, "mr_me," it appears this bothers you a great deal. I understand that on one level, but not necessarily on another level. It's not like any of this stuff is not high profile. I'm sure if there were conflicting claims to any of this stuff, the actual rights holders would have stepped forward. Considering that hasn't happened in many years of this stuff being licensed out and released, I don't personally consider it a big deal. It's really not up to anyone else to make sure all ownership documents are up to snuff. Like I stated elsewhere, it's hard enough getting anything to license, so picking over ownership paths with a fine toothed comb is understandably not exactly high on the priorities list, nor do I think it's even practical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Take a look at the upcoming Intellivision version of Miner 2049er. It says on the packaging licensed from Big Five software and copyright Bill Hogue. And that's just for the graphics/sound/trademarks and not the game code. http://intellivisionrevolution.com/entries/intellivision-homebrew-games/miner-2049er-coming-to-the-intellivision-from-elektronite That's a brand new game creation, not a re-release of an old port of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 It shows that the trademark is active and who owns the game concept copyrights. What difference does it make if the game code is new or 35 years old? In fact in Electronites case they own the game code. In the coleco vision flashback case there could be another party that owns the game code whose copyrights have been violated. I suppose it could be possible that ATGames has licensed all parties without crediting any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I don't want to say what Imagic games Activision owns at this time because it would spoil what's included on the Activision Edition of the Atari Flashback HD (the final list has still not been revealed). I think only a few Imagic games that they own are not specifically included Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 ... I'm sure if there were conflicting claims to any of this stuff, the actual rights holders would have stepped forward. Considering that hasn't happened in many years of this stuff being licensed out and released, I don't personally consider it a big deal. ... There are people that spend hard earned money on this stuff because they want to own legal copies of the games. You can't tell them it's not a big deal. I understand that with best efforts and intentions mistakes might be made. I just don't know if that is the case here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillLoguidice Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 It shows that the trademark is active and who owns the game concept copyrights. What difference does it make if the game code is new or 35 years old? In fact in Electronites case they own the game code. In the coleco vision flashback case there could be another party that owns the game code whose copyrights have been violated. I suppose it could be possible that ATGames has licensed all parties without crediting any of them. If a license requires it, it's stated. For instance, there's a flash of pre-roll copyright before every Activision game on AtGames products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillLoguidice Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) There are people that spend hard earned money on this stuff because they want to own legal copies of the games. You can't tell them it's not a big deal. I understand that with best efforts and intentions mistakes might be made. I just don't know if that is the case here. Just my opinion, but I think you're making a big deal over nothing. If best efforts have been made, I don't know what more you want. If you know something is out of whack with the licensing, you should let all of us know because it will get addressed. Guesses and assumptions don't mean anything. Edited September 12, 2017 by BillLoguidice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Similarly, you shouldnt say all is legit unless you know that it is. Edit: And if best efforts were made and they still knowingly pirated games, than that's not right. Edited September 12, 2017 by mr_me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillLoguidice Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Similarly, you shouldnt say all is legit unless you know that it is. Edit: And if best efforts were made and they still knowingly pirated games, than that's not right. It's legit within best possible and practical efforts. There's literally nothing more that can be done unless someone has actual evidence that some deal they made was invalid because there party they licensed from didn't have the rights they claimed. I'm not sure what you're implying here but I know how AtGames works. They may make mistakes, but they're never underhanded in any way. Edited September 12, 2017 by BillLoguidice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I understand that the only licensing deal that ATGames made with the Coleco Vision Flashback was with RWB/Coleco. RWB has a long history that explains their business model and how they make money. RWB is active in this forum and are free to comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I understand that the only licensing deal that ATGames made with the Coleco Vision Flashback was with RWB/Coleco. RWB has a long history that explains their business model and how they make money. RWB is active in this forum and are free to comment. Exactly, and if someone wishes to challenge RWB's claims to any properties, they're free to do so. As far as anyone knows until proven otherwise, they're legit holders of those specific ColecoVision properties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) How can someone legally license the copyrighted software owned by Coleco from 1984 if nobody knows who owns it today? I suppose ownership is not important and I should hand over my money to these people. Edited September 12, 2017 by mr_me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 How can someone legally license the copyrighted software owned by Coleco from 1984 if nobody knows who owns it today? I suppose ownership is not important and I should hand over my money to these people. What are you even saying at this point? Riverwest has maintained ownership of the catalog for years now with no challenges to said ownership, so by every practical definition, they are the legal holders. Again, it's not like any of this has been done behind closed doors. There have been several high profile products using those IPs. Until shown otherwise, you're tilting at windmills here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Are you saying RWB claims ownership of the old Coleco software library? Who did they purchase it from? [i admit it wouldn't be worth a whole lot because of secondary licensing.] Edit: Look at the Flashback packaging. RWB hadn't claimed any copyright ownership there. What other products were there that has software from their catalog? Edited September 12, 2017 by mr_me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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