Level42 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) I noticed this picture on the net today...... I thought it weird that there would be a SALLY from 1980 ? 400/800 had standard 6502 of course. The 1200XL only came in 1983 and I think is the first machine to have Sally ? Wikipedia says late 400/800s had SALLYs but is that true ? Even so....that would still be 1983. Could there be counterfeit SALLYs ....maybe made today even ? There is no factory name and the font of the text looks pretty big and unfamiliar, certainly not a SALLY I've ever seen..... Since there were so many different brands manufacturing SALLYs it could well be that the films got into some Chinese hands....I assume the chips were manufactured from some kind of film BITD as it is a sort of photographic process... Edited September 27, 2017 by Level42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Could just be the copyright date, not the production date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good_Times Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I just stopped by to say that my mom's name was Sally. You don't hear the name much these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 That photo looks ... wrong. Check out the texture of the chip casing around the letters compared to the rest of it; it's been photoshopped or alternately, someone used an abrasive on the chip and painted something else on there. Also, real Atari IC's (and basically every other IC I've ever seen) have at least a chip fab's logo or name and a date code. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Yep: looks fake as f***, as if the original markings (of whatever chip it actually is) were sanded off and then bogus markings etched in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Yes, there was a simpler variant of the 400/800 CPU card that used Sally instead of a stock 6502. I've seen both in machines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 Could just be the copyright date, not the production date. That's the whole point, SALLY wasn't available until 1983....don't think it was developed in 1980. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 The pic is from eBay. I ordered 2 NTSC ANTICs from the same seller and those look funky too....I have never seen TSU as a brand before but maybe they only made NTSC versions ? I have only seen one NTSC ANTIC until now.... I must say all other Atari chip this guy sells all DO look original.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 That's the whole point, SALLY wasn't available until 1983....don't think it was developed in 1980. Well, the whole "chip + support logic" package was developed in 1979 or so - that's the CPU "personality board" in an 800 or 400, right? Putting much of that support logic into the package and wiring in the HALT line is what turned the 6502 into the 6502C "SALLY" ... Playing devil's advocate here, but is there any info anywhere on the design process and how that went down inside Atari via the corporate historical records? I wonder if Joe Decuir's engineering notebooks (now on Archive.org) have notes about this idea? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 The pic is from eBay. I ordered 2 NTSC ANTICs from the same seller and those look funky too....I have never seen TSU as a brand before but maybe they only made NTSC versions ? I have only seen one NTSC ANTIC until now.... I must say all other Atari chip this guy sells all DO look original.... That looks like a scuffed up and rebadged package as well. I've never seen a "TSU" brand ANTIC in any of my A8's (14 of them) or 5200's (2 more). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I've never seen etched lettering on any Atari IC. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 That looks like a scuffed up and rebadged package as well. I've never seen a "TSU" brand ANTIC in any of my A8's (14 of them) or 5200's (2 more). Oh crap..... Yeah I only now noticed that it looks like there are markings of buffing/scratching.... This seller has almost a 100% feedback.....BUT I once ordered a Lynx I glass from him which never arrived....but the ANTICs already have arrived....at a friend's place..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Here's a CPU card for Sally/C014806. The earliest date code I've seen is 4981 (week 49 of 1981). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) This is the seller. https://www.ebay.com/usr/atarifreakz?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 All the other chips he sells look genuine...... This TIA is probably an exception but I don't know where Tramiel placed his orders for 2600 chips....(1990 prod. date).......[EDIT] this doesn't have a CO number, AFAIK _EVERY_ Atari custom IC ever produced from day 1 'til the end had a CO number.... The UM brand is AFAIR from my arcade collecting days a Russian or other former Eastern-block country manufacturer. That doesn't mean it is a bad chip though....I once disassembled an old fire alarm system and the unit was full of Philips chips EXCEPT for the processor which turned out the be a 6502 clone from a former Eastern block country....it had worked over 18 years without one problem..... Damn now I'm scared to put one of those ANTICs in one of my machines. I'll do some diode/resistance testing between pins to see if they at least are a bit similar, especially around the +5v and GND...... Edited September 27, 2017 by Level42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 Hmmmmm: http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?82752-Atari-VCS-2600-UM6526P1-C011903-TIA-chip-amp-XL-XE-800-CPU-C014806-6502C-Sally-IC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 If they are working counterfeits, I would find that VERY interesting....I'm sure there were plenty of 2600 chips counterfeited but A8 ? Never heard of yet.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 ....I'm sure there were plenty of 2600 chips counterfeited but A8 ? Never heard of yet.... You mean game roms? Sure, the rarer ones use EPROMS of course - WAY easier and cheaper to make than to produce custom mask ROMs. There's basically only three other chips in a 2600 - TIA, the 6507 and the 6532. Those are all common and still cheap - no need to counterfeit them at all. Yet, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 Well I've seen plenty of (Chinese) 2600 clone machines.....I bet they didn't use original chips....but I could be wrong of course. Yeah price is a factor about counterfeiting....or numbers of sales.....look at the USB chip debacle....that original chip wasn't expensive to start with....but when sales run into the 10s of millions..... Which makes it even weirder if there would be counterfeit A8 chips.....not a big market, the chips rarely die.....there are stil plenty around.... Last one from this seller: this is supposed to be a 7800 chip...I know nothing about the 7800....but this looks very very weird.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Well I've seen plenty of (Chinese) 2600 clone machines.....I bet they didn't use original chips....but I could be wrong of course. Yeah price is a factor about counterfeiting....or numbers of sales.....look at the USB chip debacle....that original chip wasn't expensive to start with....but when sales run into the 10s of millions..... Which makes it even weirder if there would be counterfeit A8 chips.....not a big market, the chips rarely die.....there are stil plenty around.... Last one from this seller: this is supposed to be a 7800 chip...I know nothing about the 7800....but this looks very very weird.... I have no idea what the f#&$ that's supposed to be. The 40-pin ICs inside the 7800 are TIA and SALLY. MARIA, the 7800 graphics chip, is a 48-pin DIP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 AH ! Found a picture of one of this UM brand 6502's: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 I have no idea what the f#&$ that's supposed to be. The 40-pin ICs inside the 7800 are TIA and SALLY. MARIA, the 7800 graphics chip, is a 48-pin DIP. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Atari-game-computer-console-7800-UK-PAL-TIA-chip-C398052-001-/152193617684?hash=item236f724f14:g:VJEAAOSwbsBXo52r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Once Atari had the chips designed, they simply ordered batches of them as needed from whoever had the best price at the time (you send in the films for your die and they send back finished chips). So, it would be nice to have a thread where we collect images of all manufacturers and date codes for the various chips. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Once Atari had the chips designed, they simply ordered batches of them as needed from whoever had the best price at the time (you send in the films for your die and they send back finished chips). So, it would be nice to have a thread where we collect images of all manufacturers and date codes for the various chips. That would be great. When do you want to start it? And can we get Al to authorize you to edit the first post indefinitely so you can update the list of chip types (6502, SALLY, POKEY ... etc) with manufacturer names, representative example pics and date code range? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 I agree and already thought about doing that.... Yeah of course it's obvious Atari shopped around quite a bit....MOS, AMI,NCR, OKI, Rockwell, Signetics, IMP (never saw that on PAL machines) from the top of my hat. Rockwell only did SALLY and PIA's as far as I have seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 Well look at that.....a 7800 motherboard..... There's a Sally just like we saw on the picture before on the left lower corner....and a UM6532 on the right !!! There are two more UM chips on the top right corner.... I never realized the 7800 ran on a SALLY..... http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/7800%20Pop%20motherboard%20%20PCB%2011.jpg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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