+DrVenkman Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Rockwell only did SALLY and PIA's as far as I have seen. Rockwell also did 6507's and RIOTs (6532) for 2600s and disk drives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Personality Board refers to the OS module which has no processing chips, just Roms. Sally was also included in the 5200 which was released in November 1982 according to it's Wiki article. If the 6502C was only used from around that time it'd only give 400/800 about a year worth of them. My 400 I think would be a build date around early 1981 but haven't had it apart for a long time, never checked what CPU board it has. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Personality Board refers to the OS module which has no processing chips, just Roms. Oddly enough, the personality board also contains the delay components for the DRAM modules (that which would later be replaced with the delay line, then Freddie). Atari might have thought that the DRAM requirements might change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I noticed this picture on the net today...... I thought it weird that there would be a SALLY from 1980 ? 400/800 had standard 6502 of course. The 1200XL only came in 1983 and I think is the first machine to have Sally ? Wikipedia says late 400/800s had SALLYs but is that true ? Even so....that would still be 1983. Could there be counterfeit SALLYs ....maybe made today even ? There is no factory name and the font of the text looks pretty big and unfamiliar, certainly not a SALLY I've ever seen..... Since there were so many different brands manufacturing SALLYs it could well be that the films got into some Chinese hands....I assume the chips were manufactured from some kind of film BITD as it is a sort of photographic process... The 1200XL serial number thread only has 1983 dates for production machines, but does list a PILOT UNIT with an October 82 production date, so the 6502C/SALLY CPU was available by that date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) Well, I think for the most chips we can be sure that they are genuine: (Again) the 7800 PCB picture I found on Best's website. On their we find the ©1980 SALLY and also the UMC (is that a C ?) 6532 RIOT. I also found another picture clearly showing one of those weird labeled TIA's. It even has a UMC SALLY !! (Labeled UM6502I.......I for,Improved ? ) So clearly this seller found a large 7800 parts stock. The only chip left unaccounted for is the TSU NTSC ANTIC..........but we'll know soon enough if it's a working one ore a really fake thing.... Edited September 28, 2017 by Level42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) Found out that UMC stands for United Micoelectronics Corporation and they're not from Russia or eastern-block at all but were Taiwans first chip maker, started in 1980. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Microelectronics_Corporation They still exist today: http://www.umc.com/English/ Looks like they had more customers in the video game business.......: "The company was also known for producing semiconductor chips which were used in counterfeit Nintendo Entertainment System game cartridges.[4] Nintendo of America filed a federal lawsuit against UMC for copyright infringement of the games. The case was settled, with both companies expressing satisfaction with the settlement.[5]" Edited September 28, 2017 by Level42 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I noticed this picture on the net today...... I thought it weird that there would be a SALLY from 1980 ? 400/800 had standard 6502 of course. The 1200XL only came in 1983 and I think is the first machine to have Sally ? Could there be counterfeit SALLYs ....maybe made today even ? There is no factory name and the font of the text looks pretty big and unfamiliar, certainly not a SALLY I've ever seen..... Hi, I think you mean the offer from AtariFreakz at ebay UK. I bought such a CPU and have problems with it. The timing (PHI2) is more ugly than every "Mexiko CPU" and, most important, the CPU hangs after 5-7 minute of idle usage (READY prompt) in any XL I tried. The output current is sooooo weak, that PHI2 (and other signals) decreases below 3.0V and less. Maybe that´s the problem. Maybe I have a single issue... I don´t want to buy more. I´ve contacted Rupert (the seller) and tell the problem. He responds, that he isn´t very experienced with the 8-Bit stuff, because his focus is on 16-Bit ST items. Of course he offer me to sent the CPU back, but that cost me more shipping than the CPU is worth. I asked, if I can couple him with some UK guys like FJC for analyzing this behavior, but then I didn´t get any response further. I don´t think he´s a bad guy or seller - I think the 8-Bit stuff is just something like "I have it, I sell it, but please no action with it". Maybe my language is the problem... if a native speaker wants to try, I can forward the emails private. Jurgen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 I once ordered a Lynx I glass from him. Never arrived. He kept blaiming the shipping company (regular post) but I've never had anything get lost between the UK and The Netherlands but of course it can happen. He never offerend me any compensation so I gave a negative feedback. Following that he blocked me so I can't buy directly from him but of course there are always ways around this.... Not good hearing your experiences with that SALLY...it's weird that it would work fine on a 7800 ? Maybe less load on the PHI2 signal ? I guess you could try to put a buffer IC between the PHI2 signal and the PCB but of course it's ridiculous that you'd need to do that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Not good hearing your experiences with that SALLY...it's weird that it would work fine on a 7800 ? Maybe less load on the PHI2 signal ? I guess you could try to put a buffer IC between the PHI2 signal and the PCB but of course it's ridiculous that you'd need to do that.... I haven´t tested it in a 7800, but I give it a try in an Atari 800 with genuine CPU board. The CPU boards fitted for Sally CPUs have a 74LS244 chip used as a buffer / signal improver installed. The output of PHI2, PHI1 and R/W are significant better with that, but the CPU also hangs after 5-7 minutes. That´s the point why I wrote "maybe single issue" - I have only bought one... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 Aha ! Yeah well....IMHO a good seller would simply say: Man it sucks that the product I sold you doesn't work, I'm shipping you another one and let me know what you find.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 The pic is from eBay. I ordered 2 NTSC ANTICs from the same seller and those look funky too....I have never seen TSU as a brand before but maybe they only made NTSC versions ? I have only seen one NTSC ANTIC until now.... I must say all other Atari chip this guy sells all DO look original.... I received three of these TSU ANTICs and they all work just fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umberto Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 This is the seller. https://www.ebay.com/usr/atarifreakz?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 All the other chips he sells look genuine...... This TIA is probably an exception but I don't know where Tramiel placed his orders for 2600 chips....(1990 prod. date).......[EDIT] this doesn't have a CO number, AFAIK _EVERY_ Atari custom IC ever produced from day 1 'til the end had a CO number.... The UM brand is AFAIR from my arcade collecting days a Russian or other former Eastern-block country manufacturer. That doesn't mean it is a bad chip though....I once disassembled an old fire alarm system and the unit was full of Philips chips EXCEPT for the processor which turned out the be a 6502 clone from a former Eastern block country....it had worked over 18 years without one problem..... Damn now I'm scared to put one of those ANTICs in one of my machines. I'll do some diode/resistance testing between pins to see if they at least are a bit similar, especially around the +5v and GND...... http://www.st-freakz.co.uk/index.html same guy, got stuff from him in the past with no problems 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Of course it is impossible for me to open all my XE cases but I am 100% (yes indeed 100%) sure I have at least 1 65XE PAL with exact the same cpu with 1980 printed on it. Why am I so sure. Simply because of the fact I can remember that I was as surprised as you guys are when I saw it. I bought a batch of 800XE and 65XE computers and all of them had bad GTIA chip except for one. So I was wondering what kind of PCB rev. Was inside the good GTIA XE. Well... in that one I found the 1980 CPU. IIRC it was a 65xe with a keyboard with springs and it was sold on the Spanish market (the warranty seal on the bottom was in Spanish language) but I can remember this part of the history wrong. Of course I am curious now so I might dig the one up one of the upcoming weeks.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Interesting ! I did find a number of pictures of either 65 or 800 XE boards with UMC processors on them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Of course it is impossible for me to open all my XE cases but I am 100% (yes indeed 100%) sure I have at least 1 65XE PAL with exact the same cpu with 1980 printed on it. Why am I so sure. Simply because of the fact I can remember that I was as surprised as you guys are when I saw it. I bought a batch of 800XE and 65XE computers and all of them had bad GTIA chip except for one. So I was wondering what kind of PCB rev. Was inside the good GTIA XE. Well... in that one I found the 1980 CPU. IIRC it was a 65xe with a keyboard with springs and it was sold on the Spanish market (the warranty seal on the bottom was in Spanish language) but I can remember this part of the history wrong. Of course I am curious now so I might dig the one up one of the upcoming weeks.... This pic I found online proves what you wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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