JagZombies

[LinkoVitch]

Nope. Not bizarre. If this were JUST constructive criticism and feeback then someone SHOULD be able to say AT LEAST 1 THING THEY LIKE.

 

Its not constructive criticism or helpful feedback at all. Thats my point its an AMBUSH.

 

 

And did you just compare my game to a shot in the head? Really dude?

 

No, I used a thing that is pretty obviously something that no one would want as an example to show that if someone doesn't like something they are not always going to be able to say something they like about that thing.

 

It proves nothing. Even if they can say something they like about the game it proves nothing.

 

If I say I like the idea of a Zombie Shooter game, that doesn't mean I like your game, nor does it mean I hate your game, nor does it mean I am ambushing you.

 

And if you read back, there has been several occurrences of constructive criticism and offers of help or advice, which you have shot down, ignored or complained about. And now you are releasing with many of the issues which were highlighted previously, none of the offered suggestions made. So irrespective of if criticism has been constructive or not, you have actively ignored it.

 

Which is why I stopped providing any early on in this thread, as you clearly don't want it.

[PeterG]

I don't think I mesh well here tryin' to take a middle ground, I'm assuming it's why I was removed from JSIII. I wish everyone their best on future projects guys, no matter who you are. I just feel better just goin' back to bein' a quiet supporter.

No I think you are doing just fine. For the record "unstable" wasn't directed towards you, regarding the post above.

 

Actually I found it quite nice that our exchange was reasonable as it should be and not going down in flames we know quite well from other discussions. We made our points and on it goes.

 

As said above I think you can support whatever you want to support, I just said that in this particular case it is not worth it in my opinion. So you can hold your middle ground regardless of my opinion or others.

 

Actually I think it is nice to discuss things, afterall this is a discussion board, right?

[Machine]

 

 

 

 

...

 

Is Sea Battle a better game than Fast Food 64? I seriously doubt it, but that doesn't mean I would refer to anyone who bought that game as a collectard or unstable.

 

....

 

I bought both. Sea Battle has gotten far more play because FF64 is so broken. FF64 could have been fun, but the poor hit detection and the unplayable 2 player mode is a total deal breaker for us. I really wish FF64 wasn't so broken cuz it does show promise, but as it sits now, it is too frustrating to play.

 

I actually hope you go back and fix FF64, cuz it was fun until the broken gameplay killed the fun..... sorry.

[Welshworrier]

I have to say, if you check my earlier post, it now has so many ticks it could suffer from Lyme disease.

"10. An advertising campaign that focuses on the haters on here and elsewhere, as he doesn't want to rely on any advance views of the complete game. Then a switch to how he is a rebel against the reboot cabal, and then a totally unbiased review by his co moderator on the Facebook group"

 

2 out of 3 for that one so far.

 

The fact your compadre didn't even see fit to give you a "like" on the gameplay video link you posted to the group you moderate (or so I'm told) should have been a wake up call as to its quality.

 

What is particularly damning I find is that in your earlier comment you said about the quality of the release, and how the box, cart and manual were high quality - note the actual game didn't fit into that quality assessment.

[LianneJaguar64]

So I like the general idea of the shooter, but my concerns from looking at this video are that it just doesn't feel like a full game. Bearing in mind this is like those demo videos you used to get on PSX Magazines in the UK, this gameplay demo doesn't really sell me on spending £35 or so on a CD version plus shipping at another tenner and probably the same again on import charges :/ If the screen moved, and there were power-ups and more animations (like on the wolf body and such) then I'd consider, but I far preferred Fast Food 64. I haven't even tried Antz and Frogz 64 for much the same reason...

[Lost Dragon]

I took the very good advice given a while back and started to go through this thread from the very start.

 

Back then it was clear a lot of people saw the rich potential a horror themed cross-hair type shooter had on the Jaguar and ideas for the game and how best to implement it on the hardware, were being given out and to be fair, the coding advice was coming from those now accused of being overly harsh and ganging up on this as it's a Wave 1 release.

 

 

I personally appaulde anyone who codes on any commercially dead system, it must be a frustrating and thankless task at the best of times and your doing a great service to those who stick with systems when others have moved on.

 

1 of the best bits of advice for anyone thinking of coding was given within the 1st 5 pages:

 

 

Slow down and make sure you have EVERYTHING right. Don't be in a rush to finish the game, to produce overlays, boxes, etc. Concentrate on making the game as good as you possibly can first, and worry about the less important stuff later.

 

 

I'm still rather puzzled where things came off the rails somewhat with this one, Clint Thompson was play testing the early versions, sound coding advice was being given and hopes were high.

 

Jeffery himself expressed hopes this could turn out really special, as did others, but advice was given that it'd need that time and attention to be special or the killer App Jeffrey is aiming for.

 

I feel critiscm should be constructive and knowing Second Opinion Games, they will point out, politely what works and what doesn't with this, just as they will any commercial title or Piko Interactive or Reboot title.

 

 

Jeffery:The drama aside, the impression as a mere bystander i take from this thread, is that there are customers and potential customers who are simply feeling a bit dissapointed this didn't have another few months (?) of play testing and polish.

 

A Halloween release might of been a nice idea?.

 

I'm sure folks wouldn't of minded waiting a bit longer, if it made for a better final product.

[LianneJaguar64]

I took the very good advice given a while back and started to go through this thread from the very start.

 

Back then it was clear a lot of people saw the rich potential a horror themed cross-hair type shooter had on the Jaguar and ideas for the game and how best to implement it on the hardware, were being given out and to be fair, the coding advice was coming from those now accused of being overly harsh and ganging up on this as it's a Wave 1 release.

 

 

I personally appaulde anyone who codes on any commercially dead system, it must be a frustrating and thankless task at the best of times and your doing a great service to those who stick with systems when others have moved on.

 

1 of the best bits of advice for anyone thinking of coding was given within the 1st 5 pages:

 

 

Slow down and make sure you have EVERYTHING right. Don't be in a rush to finish the game, to produce overlays, boxes, etc. Concentrate on making the game as good as you possibly can first, and worry about the less important stuff later.

 

 

I'm still rather puzzled where things came off the rails somewhat with this one, Clint Thompson was play testing the early versions, sound coding advice was being given and hopes were high.

 

Jeffery himself expressed hopes this could turn out really special, as did others, but advice was given that it'd need that time and attention to be special or the killer App Jeffrey is aiming for.

 

I feel critiscm should be constructive and knowing Second Opinion Games, they will point out, politely what works and what doesn't with this, just as they will any commercial title or Piko Interactive or Reboot title.

 

 

Jeffery:The drama aside, the impression as a mere bystander i take from this thread, is that there are customers and potential customers who are simply feeling a bit dissapointed this didn't have another few months (?) of play testing and polish.

 

A Halloween release might of been a nice idea?.

 

I'm sure folks wouldn't of minded waiting a bit longer, if it made for a better final product.

 

Couldn't have said it any better myself!

[Lost Dragon]

So I like the general idea of the shooter, but my concerns from looking at this video are that it just doesn't feel like a full game. Bearing in mind this is like those demo videos you used to get on PSX Magazines in the UK, this gameplay demo doesn't really sell me on spending £35 or so on a CD version plus shipping at another tenner and probably the same again on import charges :/ If the screen moved, and there were power-ups and more animations (like on the wolf body and such) then I'd consider, but I far preferred Fast Food 64. I haven't even tried Antz and Frogz 64 for much the same reason...

You got your reply up as i was typing mine, but looking back through the early pages of this thread, a comment of yours was up their with the the very best, in making clear your hopes for the game, but also how easily they could be dashed if proper care was taken.

 

 

My advice ain't worth spit Jeffery, we both know that.

 

But i would say listen to Lianne, because the advice is always sound and this is the very type of customer i would wager your games are trying to capture and if they are being put off, all the best intentions and hours spent on future projects, won't change their minds.

 

If you listen to what's being said, people honestly are just keen to see good old fashioned games that are FUN and simply work.

 

Nobody is expecting the next Skyhammer or Tempest 2000 or Rayman, they just want a new title to have a bloody good laugh playing.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Lost Dragon

[+CyranoJ]

One thing I would have liked about JagZombies:

 

I would have liked how you posted ideas and videos, then took the constructive criticism to heart and genuinely poured your time and effort into fixing all the issues, making it look and sound professional, improved the game play experience and actually learned something from it all and improved as both a designer and a game coder.

 

To be or... NOT TO BE.

 

Your videos clearly show a broken, unfinished mess, full of glitches and bugs. You can say all you want and pretend it isn't true, but the evidence is right there in them. You could wrap your game in a gold plated box created by heroic legendary miners deep in the heart of the planet, and could have had the finest pages of parchment ever witnessed by humans for the manual. None of those things make the game any better, though.

 

Stop pretending to be the victim (Dude, you manage a facebook group DEDICATED to attacking myself, Reboot and AtariAge - victim??? pfft) - own up to your bugs, clean up your act, stop shifting broken piles of garbage and maybe, just maybe, people will take you seriously.

 

tldr;

 

If you want people to stop saying your games are buggy and unfinished stop making buggy, unfinished games, taking videos of them, and then selling them for $60. It is perfectly evident by your comments in this thread you care more about the boxes than what is in them.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

I just dont think you guys are giving the game a fair chance this time based on past feelings towards me. Nobody is a victim. I wish my capture device wasnt so shitty....

And NO im not blaming the $30 capture device.

 

The game plays pretty damn good. The video just doesn't do it justice.

 

 

It IS a short game as Icemanxp pointed out. But broken, trash and unplayable are not words that describe this game.

 

Clint has been playtesting it. Almost every day. So there's that.

[+CyranoJ]

But broken, trash and unplayable are not words that describe this game.

 

 

The video you posted tells another story.

[Lost Dragon]

@LianneJaguar64:

 

Some of those PS1 Cover Disc games weren't half bad:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Lost Dragon

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

just to let everyone know.

 

There are health pick ups and flame thrower power ups scattered throughout the game.

 

Also the gun is not being developed by me, but will be ready next month.

 

It is NOT a light gun. It is a motion gun.

[flatfoot]

Nope. Not bizarre. If this were JUST constructive criticism and feeback then someone SHOULD be able to say AT LEAST 1 THING THEY LIKE.

 

Its not constructive criticism or helpful feedback at all. Thats my point its an AMBUSH.

 

 

And did you just compare my game to a shot in the head? Really dude?

I don't think you understand what constructive feedback means if you think there has to be something positive included with it.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

Just to be clear when I said Clint had been play testing it I did not say everything. Clint felt the game was too short. Which it is kind of a short game and he presented other ideas to extend the game past 7 stages using the same assets but I didn't feel like the game would be able to maintain stability and still have all the extra code. It is already at 5,686 lines of code and unfortunately I am only limited to a 2MB version.

 

He never mentioned rollerskating civilians or self aware bats that should fly above the horizon.

The hit detection was one of the main things I worked hardest on and it is functional in this final build despite the frame by frame breakdowns taken from the video.

[icemanxp300]

I am only limited to a 2MB version.

 

This is because you want to be able to make CD versions?

[+CyranoJ]

Just to be clear when I said Clint had been play testing it I did not say everything. Clint felt the game was too short. Which it is kind of a short game and he presented other ideas to extend the game past 7 stages using the same assets but I didn't feel like the game would be able to maintain stability and still have all the extra code. It is already at 5,686 lines of code and unfortunately I am only limited to a 2MB version.

 

He never mentioned rollerskating civilians or self aware bats that should fly above the horizon.

The hit detection was one of the main things I worked hardest on and it is functional in this final build despite the frame by frame breakdowns taken from the video.

 

First off, I'm dumbfounded this took 5.6 THOUSAND lines of code.

 

You are not limited by 2MB. You are selling this as a cart. A cart can have up to 6MB.

 

Hit detection is built into the API. How you have managed to make 2 objects that the API could tell you have collided not collide (or the other way around) I have no idea.

 

Please stop deflecting - try some introspection.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

This is because you want to be able to make CD versions?

 

Correct. People expect a CD version now as stated above in an earlier comment

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

First off, I'm dumbfounded this took 5.6 THOUSAND lines of code.

 

You are not limited by 2MB. You are selling this as a cart. A cart can have up to 6MB.

 

Hit detection is built into the API. How you have managed to make 2 objects that the API could tell you have collided not collide (or the other way around) I have no idea.

 

Please stop deflecting - try some introspection.

 

I cant make a 6 MB cart. I dont think I even entirely understand how to do a 4 MB cart! I can prove it has that many lines of code. I can send you the source files.

[+CyranoJ]

I cant make a 6 MB cart. I dont think I even entirely understand how to do a 4 MB cart!

 

I think we've finally agreed on something.

 

As for the lines of code... no, please keep it. This shouldn't take more than around 500-1000.... Hell, you could write this in assembler in less than you used

[JagChris]

Clint has been playtesting it. Almost every day. So there's that.

I wasn't going to say anything but this isn't good. This sounds like you are throwing him under the bus for any problems. And you can't do that. Especially to Clint. We all like him.

 

There was a lot not said there...

 

So he playtestested it everyday and...you squished every bug he pointed out to you? Or you lost to the buglists he sent? Or... What?

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

I wasn't going to say anything but this isn't good. This sounds like you are throwing him under the bus for any problems. And you can't do that. Especially to Clint. We all like him.

There was a lot not said there...

So he playtestested it everyday and...you squished every bug he pointed out to you? Or you lost to the buglists he sent? Or... What?

Me and him both made bug lists and I addressed all items on the lists. I am not throwing him under the bus at all. Im merely pointing out that bats above the horizon and rollerskating civilians was not on either of our lists. Because it shouldn't be. Because those are NOT problems.

 

 

Clint felt the game needed more time invested, more content, more polish and more level

[+CyranoJ]

Me and him both made bug lists and I addressed all items on the lists. I am not throwing him under the bus at all. Im merely pointing out that bats above the horizon and rollerskating civilians was not on either of our lists. Because it shouldn't be. Because those are NOT problems.

 

Those are the least game breaking things you could possibly have focused on. How about the invincible trousers, the 'blood from nowhere near' explosions, or the display actually tearing itself apart during game play?

 

C'mon dude, if you can't see the problems when they are pointed out to you in still images from your own video.....

 

Everyone wants to see you make a great game, it seems, including yourself. To do so, you're going to need to stop pretending all is fine and the world is against you. I gave the API away, and the guys made a basic wrapper for it, to enable people to make Jaguar games with a lower entry bar. You are, in fact, the target audience. Blaming 'reboot haters' for your lack of perspective is crazy talk when these problems are so visibly present in your games. Just look above to the comments from people who bought your games saying they don't play them because they are broken.

 

C'mon. You probably can make a fun game, you need to just start paying attention to feedback.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

Those are the least game breaking things you could possibly have focused on. How about the invincible trousers, the 'blood from nowhere near' explosions, or the display actually tearing itself apart during game play?

 

C'mon dude, if you can't see the problems when they are pointed out to you in still images from your own video.....

 

 

 

Everyone wants to see you make a great game, it seems, including yourself. To do so, you're going to need to stop pretending all is fine and the world is against you. I gave the API away, and the guys made a basic wrapper for it, to enable people to make Jaguar games with a lower entry bar. You are, in fact, the target audience. Blaming 'reboot haters' for your lack of perspective is crazy talk when these problems are so visibly present in your games. Just look above to the comments from people who bought your games saying they don't play them because they are broken.

 

C'mon. You probably can make a fun game, you need to just start paying attention to feedback.

Ok....... But thats not what I meant about perspective. I was talking about the perspective of the actual scenes in the game and where the bats are to the human eye.

 

 

I will let the rest of what you said marinate for a while. Maybe I AM being a bit of a drama queen....

 

 

I still wish you would look at the code

[Punisher5.0]

Ok....... But thats not what I meant about perspective. I was talking about the perspective of the actual scenes in the game and where the bats are to the human eye.

I will let the rest of what you said marinate for a while. Maybe I AM being a bit of a drama queen....

I still wish you would look at the code

We all want to see you make a solid game. You get pretty close but throw in the towel too early. The problem people have is you selling the game in that state. If you were to sell a nicely polished game then you wouldnt get the negative responses. You have the potential to do it and I know Id like to see it.