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I've been "playing" (OK, a lot of watching and idling and making occasional decisions and collecting rewards) Lineage II: Revolution. It seems deep and the production values are good. Probably the most controversial aspect is how much of it runs on autopilot.

 

Classic, twitch gamer me thinks that could be a bad thing. Smart, modern me thinks that automating boring, repetitive, unskilled grinding is likely for the best. Don't sit in front of a time sink, just check in when you're needed.

 

Two articles on the subject:

http://toucharcade.com/2017/11/20/lineage-ii-revolution-review/

https://kotaku.com/lineage-2-revolution-pretty-much-plays-itself-1820509649

 

Here's your chance to weigh in on how this reflects the dumbing down of modern society and how things were much better on the Apple //. @Keatah ;-)

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When I was a senior in college occasionally we'd set up NBA Live on the SNES with a team of all Vlade Divac's versus a team of all Vin Bakers and watch the system play itself. This happened more than once.

 

When I was at Midway in Chicago we had a 4 player Artic Thunder cab in the breakroom - we'd rubber band the throttles and watch them race themselves. There was so much player assist it was usually a good race. You really didn't need to actually play much.

 

 

Here's your chance to weigh in on how this reflects the dumbing down of modern society and how things were much better on the Apple //. @Keatah ;-)

Things were better on the Apple //, it kind of goes without saying :) :) :)

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When I was a senior in college occasionally we'd set up NBA Live on the SNES with a team of all Vlade Divac's versus a team of all Vin Bakers and watch the system play itself. This happened more than once.

 

 

A year or two ago someone did something like this with the latest version of The Show, making an entire league of Bartolo Colons, running a simulated season and blogging the results.

 

I've never heard of Lineage II, but reading the Kotaku article it almost sounds like a fantasy roleplaying version of sim sports games. Build your team, then make some adjustments based on how they perform (or even set the computer to make the adjustments for you), but you don't actually control the players during games.

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The entire point of a game is to be active in it, and the entire point of a video game is to eliminate the stuff that doesnt involve your interaction. To cut to the fun stuff, if you will. This fails on both fronts.

I don't totally disagree with the first part, I have no interest in watching people play game or to have games play themselves... however, just playing devil's advocate, the entire point of a game is to entertain. If it can do that in multiple modes (interactive and non-interactive) then isn't it a win? I suppose this leads down the rabbit hole of "what isa game" and "is it a game if it can be played but it's not?" Regardless, lots of people seem to like Twitch for some reason, and that's just watching games being played... although I hear it's often more about the people playing the games.

I also don't think the point of a game is to eliminate stuff that doesn't involve interaction. That's simply a design question: what parts are automated and what parts are given to the player to control. Finding the right line is finding the fun, and it varies per game and per players' preference. For example, compare Gran Turismo vs. Outrun. The latter has essentially eliminated a lot of bits of interaction but it's a blast to play.

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. . . however, just playing devil's advocate, the entire point of a game is to entertain.

 

A movie entertains, but it's not a game. A movie that lets viewers choose what happens at certain points is entertaining, but it's still not a game. A 'game' that is mostly cutscenes that you can't skip might be entertaining to some, but I want nothing to do with it. If I can't do something like run, jump, fly, shoot, or move something 99% of the time, the game designer can choke on a cold white dog turd.

 

I don't know anything about this game, so I Googled it. Here's an excerpt from the link below:

 

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/11/lineage-2-revolution-pretty-much-plays-itself/

Aside from challenge dungeons and PvP content, where the player must take control of their character, it's pretty much all automatic. That means that the bulk of the game is managing equipment, upgrading skills, unlocking achievements, and trying not to spend too much in the game's cash-shop. I can handle that.

 

I'm only a few hours in, but so far Lineage 2: Revolution has been much more relaxing than I expected. The game requires almost no effort. In fact, I am playing it right now.


Sounds like it's as much fun as filling out a long medical form as you sit in a busy waiting room while trying to balance a dirty clipboard on your knee.

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Classic, twitch gamer me thinks that could be a bad thing. Smart, modern me thinks that automating boring, repetitive, unskilled grinding is likely for the best. Don't sit in front of a time sink, just check in when you're needed.

This makes me think of Wizards Crown in the 80s. You had two combat choices: Full turn-based combat where you could control all the variables, or quick combat which resolved in seconds by random "dice" rolls.

 

The first option was cool, but to be honest I used the quick option much more to get it over with..

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The only game I really let "play itself" is Fire Pro Wrestling (fantastic series of games if you're a wrestling dork) because the game is completely based around setting up the logic of each wrestler to behave as much like the "real" wrestler as possible. Simming matches in Fire Pro is, for me, just as fun as actually playing.

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Generally speaking I play video games when I feel like doing stuff on a screen rather than just sitting back and watching stuff on a screen. There's a lot of screens in my life but the one hooked up to a bunch of video game consoles is the one that I sit in front of when I want to do something with my hands that makes something happen on the screen, because that activity is exceptionally good at providing entertainment and passing large swaths of otherwise unoccupied time.

 

A game can involve varying ratios of doing stuff to watching stuff happen though. In classic arcade games you're always doing stuff, for at least the first two hours of any modern RPG you're almost never doing stuff, and then there's in between games like the DOS classic The Incredible Machine where you do some stuff then sit back and watch the results of the stuff you did. As much as I like playing video games to do stuff I have to admit that spending a minute or two in suspense watching the results of my stuff do'ery unfold in The Incredible Machine is a lot of fun. SimCity and all the other Sim games provide a similar kind of enjoyment, seeing the results of your creations in action for a while before getting back to doing more stuff. Except for the DOS game Coaster, wherein observing the fruits of your labor usually results in motion sickness.

 

In short, doing stuff is fun. Not doing stuff can be fun too when it involves observing the results of stuff you did, as long as you don't overdo it or understuff it.

 

 

https://youtu.be/jY5F4AKSsOc

Edited by Jin
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Don't like them myself. Lots of modern games piss me off due to hijacking controls and running you through scripted events. Cod games do this for campaigns a lot.

 

To me it defeats the purpose of playing a game if your not actually allowed to play it.

 

I think that's why indie games and stuff like Minecraft are so popular, few or no scripted events, an sometimes no real set objectives.

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With my hands the way they are I dont mind auto play games at this point in time. I'm looking for a football game where I can call the plays and just be a coach. I'd appreciate any recommendations....not just football.

There are lots of those kinds of games for Soccer ('Football') in the UK. That genre didn't seem to make its way to the US though although some very very old computer games (mostly by SSI) were like that just due to the technical limitations of the day.

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With my hands the way they are I dont mind auto play games at this point in time. I'm looking for a football game where I can call the plays and just be a coach. I'd appreciate any recommendations....not just football.

 

There are plenty of soccer games like that, where you manage the team and watch the match being played, but I don't know of any american footbal games like that...

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There are plenty of soccer games like that, where you manage the team and watch the match being played, but I don't know of any american footbal games like that...

 

I think a few of the Madden games had a coach mode, but I don't know how it worked or which years it was.

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There are lots of those kinds of games for Soccer ('Football') in the UK. That genre didn't seem to make its way to the US though although some very very old computer games (mostly by SSI) were like that just due to the technical limitations of the day.

 

I'll have to check out some soccer games for sure and yes I remember microprose and SSI Avalon Hill Etc had a lot of turn-based stuff one of them was called Super Bowl Sunday

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There was some Dreamcast football game I bought for a buck or two out of a bargain bin in the early 00s. I played it for a while and was doing horribly. I set the controller down to look through the instruction book to see if there was something I was missing. I forgot to pause.

 

When the snap timer ran out, the game automatically snapped the ball and the quarterback was taken over by the AI. It completed a play and gained yardage. I stopped reading the instruction book as I watched the CPU complete play after play, scoring first down, moving down the field, eventually getting to the 2 yard line, and after a few plays putting a player over the top and scoring a touchdown.

 

When I had been controlling things, I couldn't even get a first down, much less score. My playing was actually a hindrance to the game.

 

I powered the game off, put the disc up, and never played another football game of that vintage or later.

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Well I got plenty of thoughts of it... I'm not into sports games (except for NBA Jam) but I once watched the computer play itself on Sega MLB 2K for Dreamcast, and only because it was the first time I've seen anything lifelike and smooth on a console.

 

For current Triple A titles like Wolfenstein II. yeah that's mostly movie and what little gameplay you do get will wipe you out fast if you don't "get gud". I just ended up watching the cutscene movie off YouTube, and I'm not the only one that does that. Even hardcore gamers watch other people play on Twich so the stigma isn't there anymore.

 

So they might as well make a "Movie Mode" for those who just want a good story but don't have the time or skills to even get pass the first chapter. But still have gameplay for the immersion and to get the more out of it like extra backstory and of course achievments.

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The First Xenosaga game comes to mind. You would play for like 10min..and then watch 20+ min of cutscenes. In fact, there were so many cutscenes, that all of them were compiled into chronological order and released on a DVD as a movie. I own it in fact...somewhere...

Edited by -^Cro§Bow^-
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The First Xenosaga game comes to mind. You would play for like 10min..and then watch 20+ min of cutscenes. In fact, there were so many cutscenes, that all of them were compiled into chronological order and released on a DVD as a movie. I own it in fact...somewhere...

I've heard that. I own all three but I haven't gotten around to them yet, but one day I will.

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I've heard that. I own all three but I haven't gotten around to them yet, but one day I will.

 

The 'movie' was just the cutscenes from the first Xenosaga game?! And I do recall that the movie of the cutscenes was nearly 3 hours total! I never finished the first game though I also own all three.

 

*Update* I just looked as a scan online on the back of the movie DVD box...it actually states there is over 4 hours of cutscenes!!! And that was just the first game! So yeah..it was a lot of play for a few min..watch a movie cutscene...play for a few min..watch another cutscene...fight a battle or boss (Boss battles could take a LONG time..like FF long...), and then watch a 30+ min cutscene! LOL

Edited by -^Cro§Bow^-
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