So worried about SNES reliability.

[Kismet]

 

If you want to ensure its reliability, don't turn it on. Stick the SNES in a tupperware bin and toss in a desiccant pack or two before closing the lid. Store in a cool dry place away from sunlight. Like the bottom of a closet, or basement.

That won't save it. A brand new in box SNES SHVC-CPU-01 that has been safely stored in an attic/garage/basement will die without ever being opened. There is something specific to these models where the CPU will just die with age, regardless of it ever being powered on. There's no warning sign.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I have three dead units and all of them are SHVC-CPU-01, and they all did the "power on LED, no picture" bit. The one that was kept in it's original box and packaging, did not power up after being shipped 500 miles and left in storage for a few years. The SFC one, initially did work, but then died the second time I tried to power it on. And yes, I used the correct power supply for that one. If I hazard to guess, all SHVC-CPU-01 models, regardless of being 1/1/1 or 2/1/3 models have this problem, and you will only know if you have this model by taking the cover off, as it's the only model with the "tin can" APU box. What seems to trigger the death of the CPU is powering it on after being shipped/stored, and it wouldn't surprise me if this was physical defect in the CPU package.

 

GPM-02 however works fine. Which has all the same chips separate, but no RF shield around the box. Basically these models contain all the "best" versions of the CPU/PPU/APU chips before being combined in later models, and finally the 1-chip model.

 

So from a reliability point of view, the 1-chip model (typically the "redesign" or "mini" model) would be the best one. That said, that model has lower compatibility, and lacks RGB capability, so it's only the best if you don't care about either of those, though it does have the best RGB output when modded for it.

 

I can hardly wait for the Super NT to be released.

[Kismet]

They sold 50 million of those things, you'll be able to find them for the rest of your life pretty easily.

 

You'll never find a working one however unless you can power it on in person, or have the person you buy it from show a recent video of it working.

[Stevie Goodwin]

That won't save it. A brand new in box SNES SHVC-CPU-01 that has been safely stored in an attic/garage/basement will die without ever being opened. There is something specific to these models where the CPU will just die with age, regardless of it ever being powered on. There's no warning sign.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I have three dead units and all of them are SHVC-CPU-01, and they all did the "power on LED, no picture" bit. The one that was kept in it's original box and packaging, did not power up after being shipped 500 miles and left in storage for a few years. The SFC one, initially did work, but then died the second time I tried to power it on. And yes, I used the correct power supply for that one. If I hazard to guess, all SHVC-CPU-01 models, regardless of being 1/1/1 or 2/1/3 models have this problem, and you will only know if you have this model by taking the cover off, as it's the only model with the "tin can" APU box. What seems to trigger the death of the CPU is powering it on after being shipped/stored, and it wouldn't surprise me if this was physical defect in the CPU package.

 

GPM-02 however works fine. Which has all the same chips separate, but no RF shield around the box. Basically these models contain all the "best" versions of the CPU/PPU/APU chips before being combined in later models, and finally the 1-chip model.

 

So from a reliability point of view, the 1-chip model (typically the "redesign" or "mini" model) would be the best one. That said, that model has lower compatibility, and lacks RGB capability, so it's only the best if you don't care about either of those, though it does have the best RGB output when modded for it.

 

I can hardly wait for the Super NT to be released.

Uh that's not true. My SNES is SHVC CPU 01 and I turned it on countless times and the CPU never died on me. Discharging the unit by turning the power switch on with no ac adapter plugged in and letting the LED flicker for a brief second to discharge all the capacitors

[Kismet]

Uh that's not true. My SNES is SHVC CPU 01 and I turned it on countless times and the CPU never died on me. Discharging the unit by turning the power switch on with no ac adapter plugged in and letting the LED flicker for a brief second to discharge all the capacitors

 

You can't dismiss the fact that I have 3 dead SNES's with that board, plus posts elsewhere on this forum and the broader internet have all pointed to the CPU's on these boards as being the culprit. More to the point the SHVC-CPU-01 SFC that died was a 1/1/1, obviously from the first japanese production run , so that's a problem with at least TWO different CPU revisions.

 

There is no guarantee that you will ever find a working SHVC-CPU-01 in the wild, and I would never recommend buying that model for this point alone, and that's the vast majority of them.

[Stevie Goodwin]

 

You can't dismiss the fact that I have 3 dead SNES's with that board, plus posts elsewhere on this forum and the broader internet have all pointed to the CPU's on these boards as being the culprit. More to the point the SHVC-CPU-01 SFC that died was a 1/1/1, obviously from the first japanese production run , so that's a problem with at least TWO different CPU revisions.

 

There is no guarantee that you will ever find a working SHVC-CPU-01 in the wild, and I would never recommend buying that model for this point alone, and that's the vast majority of them.

So will a GPM do? Plus I hate the SNS 101. Video is too sharp. Does the GPM share the same SHVC video encoder despite the sound chips being built into the board?

[Tanooki]

No you can't, but can you dismiss that you did discharge them before turning it on? Obviously that's not a normal thing to do with a new system, but I would think maybe wise in the case of decades old electronics.

[Kismet]

So will a GPM do? Plus I hate the SNS 101. Video is too sharp. Does the GPM share the same SHVC video encoder despite the sound chips being built into the board?

 

 

SHVC-CPU-01 has BA6592F

 

SNS-GPM-02 has S-ENC or S-ENC B

 

APU-01 (1 chip for the entire APU) appears to have S-RGB

 

All 1-chip models have S-RGB A that I've seen online.

 

I'll also note, that every SHVC-CPU-01 I have has different versions of the CPU/PPU and present/absent C67 cap. So it's not a 100% gaurantee, but research online suggests that BA6592F/S-ENC/S-ENC B are all pin compatible, and S-RGB/S-RGB are pin compatible. In theory you could salvage and swap the encoder chip but the blur/fuzz is actually part of PPU2 so you can't actually swap PPU2 on a 1-chip, but you could on a SHVC-CPU/GPM/APU, not that you'd want to.

 

http://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/snesblur.html

Edited January 18, 2018 by Kismet

[Stevie Goodwin]

You think the SHVC CPU 01s are unreliable? So the GPM is the first reliable SNES revision?

[Kismet]

You think the SHVC CPU 01s are unreliable? So the GPM is the first reliable SNES revision?

 

The GPM-02's are the only models that people seem to have that work of the multi-chip versions. Hence they're the most valuable for testing compatibility of everything.

 

The APU version combines 4 chips into one (the SPC, DSP and ram chips for the APU to form S-APU) The "1chip" models combine the CPU, PPU1, PPU2 into a single chip, but still have S-APU/S-MIX.

 

Apparently an issue on models with S-MIX is that they sometimes explode, which results in them not having sound. So there is also 1-chip models with S-MIX A.

 

Chip arrangements are listed at https://console5.com/wiki/SNES

 

When you look at the revisions of the SNES, a kind of history becomes obvious:

 

SHVC-CPU-01, 1991 release model. Has either 1/1/1 or 2/1/3 versions of the CPU/PPU1/PPU2, issues with the CPU and PPU's became apparent mid-production and thus were revised, these are actually documented. Encoder chip can be BA6592F or S-ENC/S-ENC B (BA6594F)

SNS-GPM-01, 1992, S-CPU A and S-PPU2 B, also S-DSP A, LM324 replaces two op-amps

SNS-GPM-02, 1993, S-CPU B, S-PPU2 C, S-WRAM A, S-DSP A, LM324,

SNS-CPU-RGB-01, 1994, Same as GPM-02 except S-RGB and S-MIX A replace earlier S-ENC video encoder and LM324 audio quad-amp.

SNS-RGB-02, 1995, Same as RGB-01 except S-WRAM B, DAC changed to NEC 6379A

SNS-APU-01, 1995, S-DSP A, S-SMP and the ram chips combined into a single S-APU chip

SNS-CPU-1CHIP-01, have S-CPUN A, S-APU

SNS-CPU-1CHIP-02, have S-CPUN A, S-APU

SNS-CPU-1CHIP-03, have S-CPUN A, S-APU, S-RGB A (C-SYNC not connected)

 

SNN-CPU-01 (Mini), 1997, S-CPUN A, S-APU, S-WRAM B, S-MIX, NEC 6379A

 

S-RGB units may have "jailbars", and don't amplify the output for YPbPr output, S-ENC models amplify the output so component video mods are different for the two encoders.

 

I don't want to be talking out of my butt for modding the consoles, but the "correct" output only comes out of SHVC-CPU-01/GPM-01/GPM-02 models, where as the RGB/APU/1chip models certainly treat the video signal differently, thus mods would be different.

 

As SHVC-CPU-01 has both 1/1/1 and 2/1/3 models you have to consider that the 1991 models have at least two major versions (I've seen at least one 2/1/1 model in the serial number library, but it may have been repaired) Take a look at http://projectvb.com/nss/logs.htmand see how many times "replaced CPU" comes up. The vast majority are S-CPU A. S-CPU A are all the "2" versions. All models after CPU A are also "2"'s which tells me that B versions are a different production run. Likewise with the PPU2 C. PPU2 comes primarily in 1 and 3's which correspond to PPU2 and PPU2 B. I have not seen a PPU2 A in any photos anywhere on boards, only one photo where it has been removed from the board, so it's very likely that they're rare, or maybe mostly were in units not used in NTSC areas. So from a compatibility/durability point of view it's likely that only CPU B and PPU2 C are "good" versions, but you never know. Warmer climates may make chips deteriorate faster.

 

At any rate. If you have a working SHVC-CPU-01, you have to take care of it. Even a NOS (New Old Stock) model that was kept sealed in it's original box will die the second you turn it on because the problem appears to be age/environment related.

 

(As an additional piece of research, the EURO model, SNSP-CPU-02 is nearly identical to GPM-02 (CPU B, PPU2 C, no APU shield))

Edited January 19, 2018 by Kismet

[keepdreamin]

Good grief, even if there are SNESesess that have best used by date, you can't go all magic schoolbus and fly inside the chips to prevent it.

 

Just PLAY THEM.

[AtariLeaf]

Good grief, even if there are SNESesess that have best used by date, you can't go all magic schoolbus and fly inside the chips to prevent it.

 

Just PLAY THEM.

 

Agreed just enjoy them while they last. Soon enough we'll all be emulating or using FPGA based clones and the original consoles on the shelves will be for display only - because they'll all be dead. But hell, that may not even happen in our lifetime, who knows. Just play the damn things while you can.

[F34R]

I talk to mine every morning. I bless them, and pray for them to outlive me. hehe

[Trinity]

Kismet, By peeking in the back of the snes I bought 11/92 it looks like the SNS-GPM-01 1992. This one is less prone to failure right?

[Great Hierophant]

 

The GPM-02's are the only models that people seem to have that work of the multi-chip versions. Hence they're the most valuable for testing compatibility of everything.

 

The APU version combines 4 chips into one (the SPC, DSP and ram chips for the APU to form S-APU) The "1chip" models combine the CPU, PPU1, PPU2 into a single chip, but still have S-APU/S-MIX.

 

Apparently an issue on models with S-MIX is that they sometimes explode, which results in them not having sound. So there is also 1-chip models with S-MIX A.

 

Chip arrangements are listed at https://console5.com/wiki/SNES

 

When you look at the revisions of the SNES, a kind of history becomes obvious:

 

SHVC-CPU-01, 1991 release model. Has either 1/1/1 or 2/1/3 versions of the CPU/PPU1/PPU2, issues with the CPU and PPU's became apparent mid-production and thus were revised, these are actually documented. Encoder chip can be BA6592F or S-ENC/S-ENC B (BA6594F)

SNS-GPM-01, 1992, S-CPU A and S-PPU2 B, also S-DSP A, LM324 replaces two op-amps

SNS-GPM-02, 1993, S-CPU B, S-PPU2 C, S-WRAM A, S-DSP A, LM324,

SNS-CPU-RGB-01, 1994, Same as GPM-02 except S-RGB and S-MIX A replace earlier S-ENC video encoder and LM324 audio quad-amp.

SNS-RGB-02, 1995, Same as RGB-01 except S-WRAM B, DAC changed to NEC 6379A

SNS-APU-01, 1995, S-DSP A, S-SMP and the ram chips combined into a single S-APU chip

SNS-CPU-1CHIP-01, have S-CPUN A, S-APU

SNS-CPU-1CHIP-02, have S-CPUN A, S-APU

SNS-CPU-1CHIP-03, have S-CPUN A, S-APU, S-RGB A (C-SYNC not connected)

 

SNN-CPU-01 (Mini), 1997, S-CPUN A, S-APU, S-WRAM B, S-MIX, NEC 6379A

 

S-RGB units may have "jailbars", and don't amplify the output for YPbPr output, S-ENC models amplify the output so component video mods are different for the two encoders.

 

I don't want to be talking out of my butt for modding the consoles, but the "correct" output only comes out of SHVC-CPU-01/GPM-01/GPM-02 models, where as the RGB/APU/1chip models certainly treat the video signal differently, thus mods would be different.

 

As SHVC-CPU-01 has both 1/1/1 and 2/1/3 models you have to consider that the 1991 models have at least two major versions (I've seen at least one 2/1/1 model in the serial number library, but it may have been repaired) Take a look at http://projectvb.com/nss/logs.htmand see how many times "replaced CPU" comes up. The vast majority are S-CPU A. S-CPU A are all the "2" versions. All models after CPU A are also "2"'s which tells me that B versions are a different production run. Likewise with the PPU2 C. PPU2 comes primarily in 1 and 3's which correspond to PPU2 and PPU2 B. I have not seen a PPU2 A in any photos anywhere on boards, only one photo where it has been removed from the board, so it's very likely that they're rare, or maybe mostly were in units not used in NTSC areas. So from a compatibility/durability point of view it's likely that only CPU B and PPU2 C are "good" versions, but you never know. Warmer climates may make chips deteriorate faster.

 

At any rate. If you have a working SHVC-CPU-01, you have to take care of it. Even a NOS (New Old Stock) model that was kept sealed in it's original box will die the second you turn it on because the problem appears to be age/environment related.

 

(As an additional piece of research, the EURO model, SNSP-CPU-02 is nearly identical to GPM-02 (CPU B, PPU2 C, no APU shield))

 

My SHVC-CPU-01 has a 2/1/2 CPU/PPU A/PPU B arrangement. It works like a champ and has never been touched after it left the factory.

 

I read that chips with an S-RGB encoder cannot output component Y/Pb/Pr video. Only the earlier models can.

[Eltigro]

By the way, is there a way to tell what you have without opening it up? Like by the serial number or something?

[Trinity]

The first model has a big audio thing way in the back behind the reset button that you can see or not with a good flashlight.

[Stevie Goodwin]

My SHVC-CPU-01 has a 1/1/1 PPU and CPU arrangement and it also works like a champ. But what version letter would be my PPU?

[Kismet]

My SHVC-CPU-01 has a 1/1/1 PPU and CPU arrangement and it also works like a champ. But what version letter would be my PPU?

 

There is no letter for 1's

 

S-CPU goes: S-CPU (1), S-CPU A (2), S-CPU B (2)

S-PPU1 goes: S-PPU1 (1)

S-PPU2 goes: S-PPU2 (1), S-PPU2 A (2), S-PPU2 B (3), S-PPU2 C (3)

 

If you've opened the system, the number is actually on the chip.

CPU: S-CPU A, 5A11-01, 2JF 8F

PPU1: S-PPU1, 5C77-01, 2HF 4Y

PPU2 B, 5C78-03, 2HF 8Z

 

On the 1/1/1's they all have -01

 

Here's an example of 1/1/1:

http://s18.postimg.org/kkt2ioznt/20150914_165851.jpg

No letters on CPU, PPU1 or PPU2

 

Here's an example of a 2/1/1 in a SHVC-CPU-01:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/IZ-3j4moFQI/maxresdefault.jpg

Note S-CPU A but S-PPU2 without letters

 

Here's a 2/1/3 in a SNSP-CPU-01 (PAL):

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mU4xWoD505E/maxresdefault.jpg

Note S-CPU B and PPU2 C

 

Here's a 2/1/2 in a SHVC-CPU-01:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/SHVC-CPU-01_F_01.jpg

 

What would be interesting is to figure out which chip productions are the dead ones, but that will be unhelpful for people looking to buy ones they can't open.

 

Just looking at this image, you can see two patterns of chips that are dead

http://projectvb.com/nss/cpu.jpg

[Stevie Goodwin]

 

 

This is heartbreaking. How the hell can the CPU die without warning!? Is it because of cold solder joints?

Edited January 19, 2018 by Stevie Goodwin

[keepdreamin]

Kismet, you're putting the poor guy on a tear.

 

 

At any rate. If you have a working SHVC-CPU-01, you have to take care of it. Even a NOS (New Old Stock) model that was kept sealed in it's original box will die the second you turn it on because the problem appears to be age related

This is heartbreaking. How the hell can the CPU die without warning!? Is it because of cold solder joints?

 

Stevie, this type of stress isn't good. Stressing out about things beyond your control only leads to a release of cortisol in the body. Raises blood pressure, poor blood sugar regulation, etc.. not healthy. Prolonged periods of doing this can have very harmful effects on your body.

 

Take a deep breath and just play some SNES.

[Great Hierophant]

If you want to avoid the SHVC-CPU-01, look for a SNES with raised "EJECT" lettering on its button. Those came later than the SHVC-CPU-01, which came with lettering flush with the button.

[AtariLeaf]

If you want to avoid the SHVC-CPU-01, look for a SNES with raised "EJECT" lettering on its button. Those came later than the SHVC-CPU-01, which came with lettering flush with the button.

 

I never noticed this before but I checked my two SNES's and one has the flat white lettering for eject and the other is a grey raised lettering. So these are different models internally then? If you hadn't mentioned it i never would have even noticed. I also have a SNES junior which I'm assuming is different inside as well from the other two?

[Great Hierophant]

I never noticed this before but I checked my two SNES's and one has the flat white lettering for eject and the other is a grey raised lettering. So these are different models internally then? If you hadn't mentioned it i never would have even noticed. I also have a SNES junior which I'm assuming is different inside as well from the other two?

Most likely, the bottom of the case has subtle variations in the inside which makes it so that you can't swap an SHVC-CPU-01 board into it. The SNESjr has very different insides, the controller ports are attached to the mainboard instead of via ribbon cable.

[+GoldLeader]

I understand being prepared and even, to a point, having backups.

 

 

One thing I don't do is worry (much) about something that hasn't even happened. I suppose a good power bar is a good idea or maybe an even better idea is to spring for a power conditioner (which I think most would consider overkill. I do have one of these These, which I got for when i was in a band and running sound etc,). If you're extremely worried I suppose you could save a little each month and have enough for a backup should the need arise. Or you know, buy some spares.

 

Myself I have 3 SNESs (Well maybe more if I count some untested stuff). My main one was bought back in the day and I got another off ebay for a different room in the house and a friend gave me his old one. They all work like champs! Never an ounce of trouble. And if one dies I also have 2 Retro-Duos (They're OK...the picture can be a little static-y so I don't recommend them necessarily), a RetroN 5...and 2 FC 16GOs (portable consoles) and when I get some cash I'm sure I will pick up an Analogue Super NT. Oh and of course the SNES Classic!

 

But No, I really wouldn't worry too much about it...Plenty of options and I've Never even had one die on me. If I do I'll use a different one and see if I can get it repaired I guess...

[Kismet]

Kismet, you're putting the poor guy on a tear.

 

 

 

Stevie, this type of stress isn't good. Stressing out about things beyond your control only leads to a release of cortisol in the body. Raises blood pressure, poor blood sugar regulation, etc.. not healthy. Prolonged periods of doing this can have very harmful effects on your body.

 

Take a deep breath and just play some SNES.

 

The entire point is that people are going "oh the SNES is reliable" when all signs point to "nope"

 

There are other things that can die, that are independent of the "System powers on, no picture/sound" problem, but most of those are "cold solder joint" or "bad cap" issues, which are aggravated by bad storage conditions, and can be fixed or parts can be salvaged from other dead systems. However as it currently stands, there is no solution or way of troubleshooting a SNES unless you personally acquire it, and it's entirely possible for them to die in transit or die in storage. So the problems do in fact point to an internal problem in the chip package of S-CPU/S-CPU A. The version 1 cpu core has a DMA bug that can crash the system.

 

GPM is the minimum version you'd want to find, from previous work done on this topic

https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16031

 

We figure serial numbers beginning with UN21 to UN26 are the GPM models (mine has a flush eject button, not raised, same as the SHVC-CPU-01's.) My GPM-02 begins with UN213 on a paper label. The two SHVC units that have intact shells have UN117 and UN127 at the beginning. The 1/1/1 SFC has a serial beginning with S103.

 

So the eject button is only a clue for later models I believe, as none of the above have molded eject.

 

The FCC text being molded is however a clue for GPM, as the SHVC models I have have the metalic label where as the GPM has the molded text.