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gliptitude
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If you bought a loose game and manual lot of four "used" Vectrex games on ebay for $30 shipped, would you feel entitled to a refund if the manuals turned out to have high scores written in the high score tables?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/272985686145?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649

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Edited by gliptitude
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Only if the manuals were stated to be in mint condition. Otherwise I would just deal with it. I had lots of Master System game manuals that had writing on the back (tips, high scores) but those auctions were just listed as "used" games. The manuals should be considered used as well ;)

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If you bought a loose game and manual lot of four "used" Vectrex games on ebay for $30 shipped, would you feel entitled to a refund if the manuals turned out to have high scores written in the high score tables?

Heck no- I'd consider it to be a neat bonus and immediately try to beat those high scores! If condition is that important to you, it is your responsibility to check with the seller ahead of buying.

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link to item page added to original post

 

I think it's pretty tacky to ask for a refund since there's nothing specified either way. Personally, I would not do it, even if I wasn't happy about it. I'd just say it's on me since the seller didn't specify and I didn't ask.

 

But I think it's one of those situations where in hindsight, obviously it'd have been better to specify this. It's always good to list *any* obvious marks of use on something you're selling. That way you're protected against stuff like this later.

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It doesn't say they're mint. But it also doesn't say they were written in or shown. Given the age, and the fact they're not mentioned (or turned out bad with) rips, tears, stains or other unidentifiable funk on it I'd leave it. If you were that picky about ink you should have said something since he didn't so it's really your fault far more than him like 2/3 to 1/3 blame here. Maybe someone selling old games should expect collectors have personal issues over old stuff, but that's kind of a stretch.

 

Me I'll mention writing or other weirdness if it's not just discoloring of paper from age, and even then if that were abnormal I would. But I'm also I guess you'd consider a recovering video game collector. ;) I knew/know I have a problem and forced a sell off for some years now so I know how twitchy people get. But your normal seller, either a random, or some flipper looking for a buck isn't likely to care to get into every detail so that gamble is on you if you don't ask.

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Hi, well in this case, item may be used however it refers to "the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfection" therefore seller has the responsibility to describe any imperfection for which includes any writings. That was omitted. Used is used but omitting/not showing imperfection is considered as not fair sale. You can be refund if you were really looking for mint. It is really recommended to do the following:

 

1. Contact the seller and try to have an agreement first (ebay forces you to do that anyway). They are not all assholes (but there are some out there - I had a pretty bad one once) and most of time, agreement can come very quickly. Price drop or agree to have the items returned.

2. If no agreement can be settle (seller is asking for return fees or pay for the return shipping and you strongly disagree) then start a case with eBay (return item) and select reason. Explain the situation, emails sent (ebay can check previous communications with seller) and mosty,- remain calm, stay polite and be respecful. Include pictures.

3. Buyer will have more time to respond.

4. After 10 days, if still no agreement, ask eBay to interfere in the case. After 2-3 days, they will let you know the decision and next actions to take.

5. If you win, you will be fully refund once you will return the item to the buyer at his expense. If you lose, you keep the item.

 

Next time, contact buyer and ask questions. If they don`t answer, don`t buy... and even if mint is indicated, ask questions and pictures.

 

I did that in the past (sometime at the great disappoint and anger of the buyer because they were saying take a close look of the pictures with no return possible but he was not showing very big obvious imperfections!) and always win my case. However, the amount involved was much more than yours. Depending how rare is the item and condition of the game cart, I would probably do what others are recommending: Shove it and keep it because $36 with shipping included is not a big deal here from my point of view but your criteria belongs to you only, not to others.

 

 

Hope this help. Good luck.

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Sometimes the seller might not know. Perhaps they bought it used and the manual was never looked at.

 

If you are the seller and you know its there, then its best to provide that info before the seller pays you. That way they can judge if they still want it.

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Heh, it is really hard for me to resist participating in the debate. But I can't do it without revealing which party I am. So far it seems like folks are split in their assumptions of which one I am, so I guess it isn't obvious.

 

 

Why not just tell us? Why be so secretive about it?

Edited by SignGuy81
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I appreciate sellers that take a little extra time to give an item a quick inspection and accurate description, but I understand that not all sellers care or have the time to do so. I'd say that writing, especially high scores in the high score section, easily falls under the umbrella of "used".

 

As a buyer, particularly if I'm looking for nicer items or paying on the high side, I'll often ask the seller if there's anything notable (major tears, odors, water damage, missing pages, etc) prior to buying. Communication is key.

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I appreciate sellers that take a little extra time to give an item a quick inspection and accurate description, but I understand that not all sellers care or have the time to do so. I'd say that writing, especially high scores in the high score section, easily falls under the umbrella of "used".

 

I think this quote sums up my feeling on the matter as well. Unless the game is listed as "mint or near mint" condition, or if the auction was a super rare high priced ticket item, I think it's completely fair to say these fall under the "used" category, and judging just on the photo provided in the auction, the carts and manuals appear to be in good condition and consider the items ended up being less than $10 each on average, I don't think there's a lot of room to complain here.

 

I've seen far worse boxes crushed, carts with poor labels, or manuals with pages missing or giant tears come through over the years that were not mentioned so I'd say looking at this auction, if I bid on it and the manuals came with some writing in them, I'd chalk that up to being a 30+ year old used item.

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item may be used however it refers to "the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfection" therefore seller has the responsibility to describe any imperfection for which includes any writings.

 

Directed at this comment, not who wrote it.

 

This is why selling on ebay sucks balls. That is a GENERIC description EBAY puts in NOT the seller. Sellers have to jump through hoops and whistles to deal with nut jobs. The item is USED if you think sellers should go through and nitpick every manual that isn't worth shit anyhow you are ridiculous.

 

For reasons like this I always put a disclaimer in my listings for stuff like this such as "shows wear". If you care about whether it has a bent corner or initials somewhere hidden in the manual ask! If what you are asking for is a common manual which isn't worth the sellers time to scrutinize w/ a magnifying glass, I suggest you buy locally so you can inspect items in person.

 

For items of value YES intricate details should be given. For a lot of 4 games w/manuals that would basically sell for the same as cartridge only complaining about the manuals is just being dickish. Used means used and everyone knows used items will likely not be new condition and will show some signs of being used!

 

The buyer got exactly what was listed and while I agree writing in manuals sucks for collecting purposes if you are buying something for collecting purposes you should ask first.

 

I had someone literally leave me a neutral because I sold them a Nintendo game for $15 shipped which had a new battery holder installed and a new battery, but the back of it had a sticker on it they could not remove. That is just picky and uncalled for. Swap the back if you care that much or ask for a pic of the back. Common stuff does not warrant the same level of care as higher value items.

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Hi, well in this case, item may be used however it refers to "the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfection" therefore seller has the responsibility to describe any imperfection for which includes any writings. That was omitted. Used is used but omitting/not showing imperfection is considered as not fair sale.

 

Eh, that's being really tickytack, I think. For one thing, Ebay inserts that language when nothing is put in the condition field - the seller didn't put that there and he would have had no warning that it was. The seller just listed it as used condition. Used condition pretty specifically means "shows signs of use". Having high scores written down is a sign of use. It does not affect the functionality of the item in any way.

 

No further description is necessarily needed and none is required by Ebay. I do still think it's in the seller's own interests to include more detail specifically to avoid problems like this, but it's not strictly necessary - when you buy a used item, you should be expecting it to show signs of use. If you don't want signs of use, then don't buy used. That is why there are two different categories that you can search for on Ebay.

 

Personally, when I buy used items with their flaws unspecified, I know there's going to be some element of risk. That's the nature of the beast. Caveat emptor.

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It says "used". But even if it said "new", as a buyer (Edit: collector), I'd have asked for pictures and if the manuals have writing, rips, stains, or heavy wrinkles. That is a standard question of mine related to manuals. But, I do that because of my own experience buying something and discovering it to be marked in. If a seller will not respond to my questions I simply won't buy the item. No problem for me or them.

 

As a seller I do not believe that it pays to force someone to keep something they are not satisfied with. You are making an enemy and hurting your own reputation. Is the buyer "entitled" to a refund? I believe in the current Ebay environment that they most likely are, even though I am a believer in "buyer beware" and do due diligence before buying anything myself. But as a seller I just suck it up and go through the refund or work out a discount or some other mutually agreeable solution.

 

Not the same situation, but I have had a seller block me as a buyer due to requesting returns for items that were not as described. Something was listed as "new" with a picture of a nice item. But I received a different item that was grabbed out of a stack of them and the one I got was mashed, dented, etc. The seller claimed that "It is new. It's never been opened." They also said, "I cannot take the time to take photos of and describe every individual item." So, they gave me a refund but then blocked me from buying from them. So, I guess that this person sells items that are not as pictured or described and usually gets no complaints. Either that or they are banning a large number of customers due to their own laziness related to posting accurate information about the items after the customers ask for refunds. Was I wrong to ask for a refund? No. Were they wrong for banning me? I guess not if it is just too much for them that a customer actually expected to receive what was listed. I believe the real issue in the situation I described is the sellers inaccurate listing and that they should not have banned a customer for a fair complaint and created someone that will be telling this story in all of these forums, etc. And I do indeed go out of my way to tell people about this persons selling practices every time I get an opportunity due to their rudeness and questionable selling practices.

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But as a seller I just suck it up and go through the refund or work out a discount or some other mutually agreeable solution.

 

Return is the ONLY solution for instances such as this. Do not give in to the losers who nitpick just so they can get a partial refund or something for free. I will pay more and take bigger losses in shipping before I allow someone to extort the system and get something they are not entitled to.

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