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Composite/RGB between LCD or CRT TV. RGB quality sound


Gamer888
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Sorry for my topic which might be quite borring

 

I know many old school systems look quite so so on LCD screen TVs.

 

What if I plug a genesis with a good old yellow rca cable on a CRT TV. Will the picture be actually better than plugged on a LCD TV??if so...how much better??Or maybe the same??

 

Also, can a cable be of "bad quality" and have some small parasite-like sound?I have this genesis 1 with a good sound but you can hear a light noise in the back (I compared with a genesis 2 with crystal clear sound). So I was wondering whether the cable can be reason meaning I have a bad RGB cable, more than the system itself.

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The Genesis..especially the earlier model 1 units have bad composite in general. That said, they do look better on composite from a CRT vs an LCD. It is strange, but on a CRT you can at least read text in most games quite easily, but the text through composite on an LCD can be very difficult to read on many games. Shadowrun is an excellent example as the text boxes can be difficult to read on an LCD vs CRT. This is why I eventually modded a 32x for s-video out only for use on the model 1 Genesis. That was until I got the HDretrovision cables.

 

Audio is trickier. If you are pulling the audio from the front headphone jack, then it can be noisy. That noise can get worse when you have capacitors that might need to be replaced or the volume slider rheostat is going bad. This is why any Genesis that will get casually played, I think should be modified for audio out from the 1034 chip itself instead of the headphone area as that avoids most of the filtering for the headphone section and especially the volume slider.

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My genesis 2 got modified with additional boards and this is why the sound is better than my genesis 1. So either my genesis 1 sounds right and it is simply not as good as my genesis 2 or the rgb cable I use (I live in Europe) might have some defects. My genesis 1 is the High Definition Graphics model but maybe the system is a genesis 1 which came later and someone just substitue the top with the High Definition Graphics thing to make it sound more valuable!

 

As for other systems such as the famicom or PC Engine, do they all follow the same "rule" where composite will look better on CRT than LCD??

 

Thanks for your answer by the way!

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There have been a few topics like this here, and just recently there was a discussion about HDMI upscaling devices.. The issue isn't always just of quality video, but also lag. LCD TVs have a lag in the video as it upscales the video signal. For example, if you want to play a fast paced shooter, you may find it unplayable on an LCD TV because of the lag. CRT TVs give you the picture that was intended for the game and have no lag, though it may not be the bright, smooth picture as you might get on a more modern console with an LCD TV. There are pros and cons to both. I found this thread very informative and the video that was linked about the Framemeister is full of information. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/273836-framemeister-help/

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My genesis 2 got modified with additional boards and this is why the sound is better than my genesis 1. So either my genesis 1 sounds right and it is simply not as good as my genesis 2 or the rgb cable I use (I live in Europe) might have some defects. My genesis 1 is the High Definition Graphics model but maybe the system is a genesis 1 which came later and someone just substitue the top with the High Definition Graphics thing to make it sound more valuable!

 

As for other systems such as the famicom or PC Engine, do they all follow the same "rule" where composite will look better on CRT than LCD??

 

Thanks for your answer by the way!

 

If you have the crystal clear audio mod installed into your Model 2, then you essentially have sound that is nearly equal and perhaps a tad better than the lower version Model 1 units had. My Genesis that I use to actually play games on is pretty heavily modded and not the prettiest looking console out there. But, the picture quality it produces and the audio it kicks out is amazing to my eyes and ears. Having said that, it is important to know that I have heard quite a bit of difference in those Model 1 High Def versions. My preference is for the Va2 and VA3 versions as they have the best overall punchier and gritty sounds and really make give me an arcade like sound from them. But, they aren't as filtered as the later models and so they might sound too harsh to some. The later model 1 units (Excluding the aweful VA7 variant) sound good but have more filtering in them that I think kills too much of the highs and midranges. Additionally, I have found that all the later model 1 units espeically the va6, will give much lower volume when you pull the audio from the 1034 directly. Not sure why but I've confirmed this with at least 3 different va6 and 6+ units I've modded over the past 2 years for others. In all cases the va2 and va3 sound the best with the va3 really being the best since it doesn't suffer from a hardware issue with distortion on loud sounds as the va2 will. Of all the Genesis systems I have in my collection, the best sounding one that isn't modded...is my va3 JPN Megadrive.

 

Now to answer the question about composite video...this is subjective. But not all consoles are alike of course. The genesis early models have much poorer composite out than the newer model Genesis units. But in the case of other consoles, I find that generally they have decent composite output. The TG-16 especially puts out really nice composite. So does the NES front loader. But it honestly just depends on the console you have and the TV you use it with. All consoles that output composite will look better on a CRT vs an LCD in nearly all cases.

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CRTs will vary in quality as well, that being said these days everything pre PS3 I play exclusively on CRTs. It's quite possible that audio noise could be in part from the the cables and interference. Like others states with could also be an issue with age and capacitors. Your post makes it sound like you get interference only on audio output from the DIN connector on the back. If audio is okay though the headphone jack I would initially suspect cabling.

You also mention RGB are you asking if you think RGB on a flatscreen not prescaled is better than composite on a CRT. That would be a little more subjective. In theory an LCD should produce a better picture direct 240p RGB than a CRT with composite input. I have a couple LCDs that accept 240p RGB and they both look worse than all my CRTs. All my CRTs are professional so it might be closer in consumer comparison.

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I have just tried to play my genesis 1 but with an headphone connected of course on the jack output rather than playing throught the DIN..the sound is better for there is less "background" sound. It is likely my cable to be damaged rather than the system. Thanks for the hints!

 

I have an LCD screen TV and my pc engine/Genesis via RGB looks great but my other systems through composite or even s-video..quite bad. I have just purchased a small CRT TV of 15''..not much but great (20 euros with shipping...has yet to receive it). I will be able to compare. Especially with the 3do which has rca and s-video output and I can plug both at once so I could compare both TVs side to side.

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There have been a few topics like this here, and just recently there was a discussion about HDMI upscaling devices.. The issue isn't always just of quality video, but also lag. LCD TVs have a lag in the video as it upscales the video signal. For example, if you want to play a fast paced shooter, you may find it unplayable on an LCD TV because of the lag. CRT TVs give you the picture that was intended for the game and have no lag, though it may not be the bright, smooth picture as you might get on a more modern console with an LCD TV. There are pros and cons to both. I found this thread very informative and the video that was linked about the Framemeister is full of information. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/273836-framemeister-help/

 

Input lag isn't an issue with more recent HDTVs, this definitely was a problem a few years ago. But it's at the point now where the lag exists in number only, not real world gaming that you'll notice. Newer sets from the likes of LG, Samsung, TCL etc.. are down to around a frame or less, anything faster and you're already well past the point of diminishing returns. NVIDIA even just announced they're doing a 65" gaming monitor this summer.

 

My Genesis setup goes: Model 1 (via RGB scart w/ dongle that taps headphone jack for stereo and injects into the SCART head. Like this: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sega/mega-drive-1/sega-mega-drive-1-sega-genesis-1-stereo-rgb-av-scart-cable-tv-lead-pro-build) -> OSSC -> HDTV with just under 1 frame of lag.

 

The OSSC does a clean conversion to digital with no lag penalty.

Edited by keepdreamin
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This link is what I was talking about (albeit from a different seller) so I might get it although it might be super convenient as a setup. One thing I found quite annoying is some TV having lags have a game mode where you might sacrifice some "quality" picture in return for no lag. The problem is this game game can be very well hidden in the TV menu set, not necessary where your logic would expect to have it. I found my game mode after I sold my gameboy player which was the only device lagging....have ever tried to play SMB 3 with lags??Not easy.....

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This link is what I was talking about (albeit from a different seller) so I might get it although it might be super convenient as a setup. One thing I found quite annoying is some TV having lags have a game mode where you might sacrifice some "quality" picture in return for no lag. The problem is this game game can be very well hidden in the TV menu set, not necessary where your logic would expect to have it. I found my game mode after I sold my gameboy player which was the only device lagging....have ever tried to play SMB 3 with lags??Not easy.....

 

Game mode doesn't sacrifice picture quality. It turns off post processing BS like, "soap opera camera", edge enhancement etc..

 

The stock Gameboy Player software is garbage, as it has a ton of lag. You should have been using Game Boy Interface instead. https://www.videogameperfection.com/2015/10/02/interface-enhancing-player/

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Game mode doesn't sacrifice picture quality. It turns off post processing BS like, "soap opera camera", edge enhancement etc..

 

The stock Gameboy Player software is garbage, as it has a ton of lag. You should have been using Game Boy Interface instead. https://www.videogameperfection.com/2015/10/02/interface-enhancing-player/

I didn't know about this...it did lag on only one my screen, otherwise it was but I heard many annoying stories.

 

Soon, I will receive a small CRT TV. I bought it dirt cheap and I will try to post some pics to compare between a CRT and LCD for the sake of it.

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The Genesis/SMS composite was so BAD on my HDTV, it's actually the reason I began investigating RGB solutions, leading to tons of mods to systems, upscalers, SCART cables, etc., etc. later!

 

OSSC at 5x. Unmodded model 1. Notice the overscan is masked. :thumbsup: Ignore the dark edges, that's not the OSSC. Just a combination of my camera and TV. Oh, and the OSSC is on sale right now.

 

 

 

post-45470-0-98109600-1515796368_thumb.jpg

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I have ordered a small 14'' tube TV which I have received...(a miracle someone was willing to send this heavy albeit small TV). Unfortunately, it might be PAL only (I live in France)

 

My core grafx I with a RGB cable:full color, nothing to report

My genesis 1 and 2 with RGB: color with unstable picture, no way you could even spot the word "start"

My famicom, 3do, PC-FX via composite: black and white picture (but this latter is super stable).

 

Despite having a black and white picture, I could see that even on a small screen 1990s TV provides a much better picture than LCD. Unfortunately for me, no color for the Japanese systems and and unstable on the genesis.

 

Awww..what a shame. I guess I will be stuck with my LCD which is not bad..but miles away from what a real good picture should be.

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