Vintage Atari 1987 CES video

[DracIsBack]

Bug Hunt is supposed to be a bad game, but it's the only game they showed which looked close to a NES game. That's what I meant to say; Missile Command's good, but it really looked dated.

 

Actually, I'm beginning to wonder if Atari shouldn't have nixed the 7800 to focus on the XEGS. The XE line had more games than the 7800, similar graphics, and a sound chip. Of course, Atari probably thought they'd be able to undercut Nintendo's price, sell more systems, and attract developers that way. Did Atari know Nintendo signed 2-year exclusive contracts with publishers when this video was released?

 

Naw - I think Hardball and Fight Night also held up pretty well. I remember being impressed with Hardball when I saw it originally.

 

Atari absolutely knew about Nintendo's lock. That's why there were so many computer ports. Mike Katz used his connections in the computer software industry to get those licenses when Nintendo locked up the arcade ports.

[Lynxpro]

 

One of my neighbors had an Atari XT compatible PC.

 

On the XE Game System, I've posted this before and I think it's good to repost in terms of getting their thought process at the time.

 

 

I wanted them to focus on the 7800 and ST too, but I get their point on trying to make the XE a Trojan horse to resurrect the 8bit line. Especially with a warehouse full of 8bit stuff and retailers/developers dropping support all over the place for the 8bit line. Didn't work, but I get the logic.

 

 

This isn't aimed at Drac but I wanted to cover everything. The Atari PC was not saying the IBM PC was better than the ST, it was saying "hey, you want to buy a PC over an ST, okay, buy ours". It's no different than parents saying "don't have sex but if you do, please use a condom". And despite the Atari PC being cheap and being feature-rich, they weren't sold at Sears next to the Packard Bell garbage. Atari Corp got heavily flamed by the PC press because of the company's reputation and the lack of expansion ports even though it had most of the sought-out features built directly onto the motherboard like ATX but a decade before.

 

The tone of Neil Harris' message here was to re-assure the active Atari 8-bit community who were going online with local bulletin boards, GEnie/Compuserve/Delphi, and also being active members in local users groups. They as a whole were convinced Atari Corp was going to cancel the 8-bit computer line at the blink of an eye*. And yes, Atari Corp was focused primarily on the ST then since it was supposed to be their future. This was a time when software publishers were dumping the Atari 8-bit line and using it as an example to the owners of the computer platforms with larger user bases that they'd stop developing for platforms with a large percentage of the user base actively engaged in software piracy. Getting the XE Game System out was an attempt to increase the Atari 8-bit computer line quickly, especially since the mass merchants weren't carrying the 65XE. The problem was that Atari Corp was also trying to sell the 7800 and the 2600. They were developing for too many platforms. And they found themselves where they couldn't stop developing for the 2600 since it was still selling well.

 

These videos used to play on the tvs inside Federated after Atari Corp got suckered into buying the Federated Group chain. That in itself was a defense against computer dealers dropping the ST because it was tough to get ST inventory into the US because the Reagan Administration waited too long to restrict Japanese DRAM over price dumping until after almost all of the US companies were driven out of business [excluding Micron]. Consequently, Atari shipped about 80% of the STs over to Europe because the EC didn't impose tariffs at that time against Japanese DRAM. But the defensive strategy backfired because not only did Federated cook their books and Atari paid about $50 million too much for the chain but they hid their losses, not to mention a lot of former Atari ST dealers got angry over Federated and retaliated by pushing the Amiga instead which wasn't difficult to do after the Amiga 500 debuted. And add to that Jack Tramiel firing Shadoe Stevens, Mr. Fred Rated himself, was a huge mistake since probably 80% of Federated's popularity was due to their commercials.

 

But speaking of that time, Federated would hire people from local Atari user's groups to sell the ST line and you could find a lot of Atari stuff there whereas it might be a chore to find at the local Toys R Us or Kay Bee. Although I never found the XG-1 light gun - separate of the XE Game System - anywhere except for an OEM non-branded one sold in a cardboard box at Commodore dealers. You also couldn't get any of the 7800 JoyPads that were almost exclusively sold to Europe even though they appeared in the product placement segments at the end of WWF matches on tv. Likewise, the local Atari ST dealers couldn't seem to get the ST Power Pads - the gray versions of what later became the Atari Jaguar JagPads - even when the STe line finally was released.

 

Other funny things about the video... the light gun shown in some of the XE Game System videos there was the Sega Phaser painted white and Bug Hunt was referred to as Blast 'Em. The cartridge in the 7800 seems to be too thin in the side profile shots of the little girl playing with the 7800.

 

Oh the memories of being a frustrated 7800 and 1040STf owner and user's group member as a kid back then...later an annoying shareholder who would bug the Tramiels at the annual meetings with his mighty 50 shares too.

 

 

*It didn't help that the Tramiels outright cancelled the 1400XL and 1450XLD computers that James Morgan had simply put on ice and cancelled the 1090XL external expansion chassis or even killed Atari Corp's own previously announced 65XEP and the 65XEM**. The 65XEM got a lot of their hopes up that the AMY sound chip would finally debut and it would go to the 8-bits. Those of us in ST Land generally didn't know back then that Shiraz Shiviji (sic) had tried to get the AMY working in the ST during its early development but couldn't and they had to move on. Had we known that back then, a lot of us would've been as militant in demanding an AMY sound chip upgrade as we were with the Blitter chips. I guess we really weren't militant enough since Atari Corp never did come out with a viable Blitter upgrade for 520STm and 1040STf owners and GDOS also never was inserted into the TOS OS - as previously promised - even after Digital Research got off their duffs and finished it. I personally believe had the ST - or STe - been equipped with some Atari 8-bit'isms like SIO, a POKEY or 2, ATASCII and a 16-bit continuation of real Atari BASIC, that would've helped a lot of 8-bitters move up to the ST instead of being outright hostile to it, or, even worse for Atari Corp, supporting the Amiga. Atari Corp did do some things right with the 8-bitters, like getting Atari DOS 2.5 out to replace DOS 3.0, the SX212 modem which was ST and A8 compatible, the XEP80 80-column external card, and the XF551 to replace the 1050, but the XEP80 took forever to come out and Atari Corp failed to bring out monitors and 3.5 disc drives for the XE line as they had initially promised. Come to think of it, Atari Corp also failed to bring out Atari branded TVs and VCRs too. I think a lot of that had to do with Federated cratering financially right after Atari Corp acquired them. Nothing like losing $200 million+ off such a deal.

 

**Even back then, it was common knowledge in the Atari community that Jack Tramiel supposedly hated video games and that he supposedly sat on the release of the 7800 in order to put the emphasis on the ST line. Consequently, this misnomer is still being repeated online often even though a lot of us have known for the past 4 or 5 years that that wasn't the case. The reality was, Atari Corp was selling video game inventory in 1984 and even before the 7800 was released, they were selling 5200s in bundles in the Atari Explorer magazine and were even modifying the 4-port inventory so they could use the tried and true RF switchbox the 2-ports used. They were also releasing more of the revisions of the CX52 joysticks and even Atari 8-bit computer dealers had them even if they weren't carrying the 5200 because 5200 owners were calling up Atari dealers listed in the phone book for replacement joysticks when theirs' "broke".

Edited January 22, 2018 by Lynxpro

[Lynxpro]

Wow.. want to go buy an ST now.

 

 

What's stopping you? I'm hoping someone flaked out so I can pick up a freebie 1040 in SF...

Edited January 22, 2018 by Lynxpro

[Lynxpro]

 

Bug Hunt? Seriously? I agree about focusing on more recent games, though.

 

I'm a fan of the XEGS (and 7800 and 2600jr., of course) but the whole point of it is muddled and convoluted. I get that Atari Corp. was sitting on a lot of backstock of 400/800 product and that at the same time, retailers weren't selling computers anymore. But with the costs of developing a new platform, even a recycled one, for the sake of moving old excess inventory, it seems like they were doubling their losses (well, probably not literally "doubling," just adding to existing losses).

 

Now, if they had actually treated the XEGS as the "high-end game system" they said it was, I think it could have been a different story. Instead of being just a 65XE in disguise, be a 65XE in disguise with new game cartridges packed with extra RAM and helper chips, and with the two-button control pad. And, oh BTW, it's backward compatible with 400/800/XL/XE software and accessories. It still wouldn't have been as good as the NES, but it would have come a lot closer.

 

Of course the problem there is, you've still got the 7800, too.

 

The real problem overall was that aside from the ST and Lynx, Atari Corp. was trying to stretch out really old hardware when they needed something new. There are reasons for that, though, too (namely, it came part and parcel with the acquisition of the consumer division of Atari Inc.).

 

Honestly, the XEGS really should have been the STGS. Or, forget the "consolized computer" concept altogether, just write off the old 8-bit backstock, and put everything into making the 7800 the system it could have been.

 

So many couldas, wouldas, and shouldas.

 

They would've had to have redone the entire XE line - not just the XE Game System - had they equipped the XEGS with 2-fire button controllers and extra chips. Well, they could've rewired joysticks or joypads for 2 or 3 fire button action had they used the Paddle Lines or come up with resisters or however the 7800 and the Sega Master System and Genesis do it or...they could've went DB15 like the 5200 and used a digital stick with all the other bells and whistles without the bad press about the non-self centering joysticks or mushy buttons. They would've had to have modified a lot of the games though.

 

Atari Corp was also hoping that software publishers would then write games for the XE Game System but label it for the XE computer line and then slap on a sticker stating "also compatible with the XE Game System" as a way around Nintendo's 2-year exclusive license for NES games before appearing on competing consoles. Basically a more successful end-round than Coleco tried to do with the ADAM with Donkey Kong. Also of note, Michael Katz had been behind the Colecovision's success and he was in charge of Atari Corp's video game - Entertainment Electronics - division until Jack Tramiel broke his promise to market the Lazer Tag competitor they were licensing from Midway and also failing to secure the North American rights to the Sega Mega Drive.

 

As for the "ST Game System", I think that was held up first by the STe's development [getting graphics chips that did hardware scrolling and sprites with the Blitter and DMA audio], then the failure to land the Sega Mega Drive, and also going back to the fact that good ol' original Atari Inc was going to bring out a 16-bit video game console for Christmas 1985 based upon the Amiga Lorraine chipset but the Commodore stole it and Warner sold Atari Inc's Consumer Division's assets to Jack Tramiel.

 

As for the Tramiel family name, it's supposed to be pronounced TRAM-ALL or TRAMMEL but everyone - including the press mispronounced it due to the "i" and they just gave up. That's why the company that became Atari Corp was originally named "Trammel Technologies, Ltd". Think of actor Sam Trammel from HBO's True Blood.

[DracIsBack]

 

They would've had to have redone the entire XE line - not just the XE Game System - had they equipped the XEGS with 2-fire button controllers and extra chips. Well, they could've rewired joysticks or joypads for 2 or 3 fire button action had they used the Paddle Lines or come up with resisters or however the 7800 and the Sega Master System and Genesis do it or...they could've went DB15 like the 5200 and used a digital stick with all the other bells and whistles without the bad press about the non-self centering joysticks or mushy buttons. They would've had to have modified a lot of the games though.

 

Yeah. I actually found the unreleased XE versions of Commando and Xenophobe to be pretty good ... they hold up relatively well to the 7800 versions that I thought were quite good.

 

The limitations show in them though. The biggest for me was the 1-button controls. Made Commando really weird especially. You definitely also see the games run up against certain colour limitations in the GTIA chip where there are fewer colours and weirder colour choices compared to what MARIA was generating.

 

The sound also isn't as good in COMMANDO, but to be fair ... the 7800 one using both MARIA and TIA simultaneously so the music is a bit richer.

[Lynxpro]

 

Yeah. I actually found the unreleased XE versions of Commando and Xenophobe to be pretty good ... they hold up relatively well to the 7800 versions that I thought were quite good.

 

The limitations show in them though. The biggest for me was the 1-button controls. Made Commando really weird especially. You definitely also see the games run up against certain colour limitations in the GTIA chip where there are fewer colours and weirder colour choices compared to what MARIA was generating.

 

The sound also isn't as good in COMMANDO, but to be fair ... the 7800 one using both MARIA and TIA simultaneously so the music is a bit richer.

 

There shouldn't be any color palette limitations with the ANTIC/GTIA in the Atari 8-bit computers - or 5200, or XE Game System - compared to the 7800. They both have 256 color palettes. The 7800, however, can blow away A8 with the vast number of sprites it can move around a screen at once. However, sometimes the 7800 ports don't look as good as the A8 versions.

 

7800 Commando is using the POKEY and the TIA for audio; POKEY for the soundtrack and the TIA for audio SFX. Now if A8 Commando supported Dual POKEY, it would sound better since the POKEY does both audio SFX and music better than the TIA. But of course, the commercial release doesn't support Dual POKEY. Not that homebrewers couldn't *fix* that.

 

As for the 1-fire button issue, port A8 Commando to the 5200 and then it could do 2-fire button - or more - action. I love 7800 Commando but I certainly wouldn't turn down a good port of A8 Commando to the Mighty 5200.

[DracIsBack]

 

There shouldn't be any color palette limitations with the ANTIC/GTIA in the Atari 8-bit computers - or 5200, or XE Game System - compared to the 7800. They both have 256 color palettes. The 7800, however, can blow away A8 with the vast number of sprites it can move around a screen at once. However, sometimes the 7800 ports don't look as good as the A8 versions.

 

I know they both have 256 color palettes. But when you get into sprites and characters, can the 8bit put as many on screen without tricks as the 7800 can? Maybe it's a programming choice, but both Xenophobe and Commando seem to be less colorful than the 7800 versions to me.

 

I'm quite aware of the shitty 8bit to 7800 conversions. Generally I found that if the Tramiels got a license for their systems, the version that they had to pay to actually develop suffered. Usually it was the 7800 when they got pre-existing disk code (see Karateka, Summer Games), but it went the other way too (Desert Falcon, Food Fight) with GCC conversions.