Roland MT-200 - The retro device you didn't know you need!

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Recently acquired and repaired an Roland MT-200. It is basically like having an SC-55 sound module with the ability to play midi files jukebox style from a floppy disk drive! Aside from not having MT-32 support, it covers the rest of the early 90s era DOS gaming Midi needs. Also this module works great with DosBox, ScummVM, and the X68 Sharp x68k emulator through the use of a Roland UMONE mkii usb to midi adapter set.

 

 

For those interested, I picked up my MT-200 listed in as is condition for $40 shipped. It ran another $40 for a brand new set of the Roland USB - Midi cables. Overall, I'm really happy with it!

 

Repairs needed:

 

Settings and Instrumentation was all goofed up. A factory reset from the hidden diag menus took care of this.

Floppy drive would light up but not read or recognize a disk had been inserted. Turned out to be a bend pin on the floppy interface connector on the mainboard. I'm not the only to have gotten inside this module. Also cleaned up the floppy read/write heads as they were pretty nasty as well. About an hours worth of time to fix given I'd never been inside one of these before.

Edited February 5, 2018 by -^Cro§Bow^-

[Flojomojo]

That looks rare and I'll bet it was expensive (like $600+) when it launched in 1994 or so. Do you know where there are any vintage reviews? I'd love to read some writeups from the time it was new.

 

Congratulations on the new thing!

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Information on this is pretty scarce. However, it would appear that over the last year, more information from Roland is at least available. You can find the 2 manuals that came with it online freely and easy enough. And Roland at least lists how to access the hidden diag menu where the factory reset option is found. What I do know about my unit is that based on the serial number, it was likely from around 1992, but as I found out when I got inside it to fix the floppy drive issue, mine has an updated firmware 2.01 firmware chip in it dated from 11-30-1994. The chip is also hand written on and not at all like the date red dot code stickers I've seen on other Roland devices. Not sure it the chip was burned manually or if this is how Roland sent out updated firmware chips? It was missing a screw as well which, was another way I knew it wasn't virgin before I opened it up.

[+OLD CS1]

I saw a MIDI boombox not long ago. Really cool stuff. This would be a neat thing to have.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I saw a MIDI boombox not long ago. Really cool stuff. This would be a neat thing to have.

 

Yes there are quite a few devices like this that Roland released all the way up until like 2007 or so? The first of these was the MC-500 and the MT-100. The MT-100 was the exact same thing only it was an MT-32 sound module with sequencing ability using the built in MT-32 sounds of course. There is also smaller units with built in speakers like the newer MT-90 series and also another one called the SD-35. As I said, quite a few of these types of things exist and when I first saw a video from Techmoan talking about the MT-80s, I set out on the quest to get something similar. Also in looking at those units like the MT-80s, MT-90...I'm not sure you can actually use them as sound modules like for old games. Because they only contain just the single Midi IN port and I'm sure that is for the Piano only Midi input. So you would only get Midi sounds that sound like a piano on one channel. That is what I was experiencing when I first was getting this up and running. Turns out you have to use the Midi Aux IN to have it work like an SC-55...etc.

[pacman000]

Seems to be quite a few posts on Google Groups: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/Roland$20MT-200

 

But none of the ones I saw had much info...

Edited February 6, 2018 by pacman000

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Seems to be quite a few posts on Google Groups: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/Roland$20MT-200

 

But none of the ones I saw had much info...

 

That's pretty funny as most of the posts are asking about how to convert the native rsc type files that the MT-200 saves in to normal midi format. I actually discovered this myself when I recorded and then saved the Vampire Killer song as it was playing through the x68 emulator. However, I also found a conversion program written by some guy from the late 90s early 2000s that only works in DOS and he doesn't state it will convert everything perfectly.

 

Point being, I was able to use this exact conversion program in Dosbox to convert the vampire killer recording back to standard midi format and to my eyes at least, it sounds the exact same as it did while playing through the module.

 

But yes, not much to be found on these. They weren't really marketed as sound modules for studio professionals. They were really marketed to music teachers and those learning to play piano. Hence the name MT (Music Tutor). So I don't imagine they sold them in the same numbers as say....actual sound canvas modules bitd. I honestly don't know what they even cost back in 92 when this model was first released but I did see one of those older posts from like 96 or something where a person was asking $1000 for his. So I have to assume they at least cost that much if not more when new back in 1992.

[+x=usr(1536)]

The MT-200 is kind of a neat device. The Techmoan channel on YouTube did a video on its little brother, the MT-80, a couple of months ago:

 

 

Incidentally, there was also a Boss model that used Zip disks:

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

The MT-200 is kind of a neat device. The Techmoan channel on YouTube did a video on its little brother, the MT-80, a couple of months ago:

 

Incidentally, there was also a Boss model that used Zip disks:

 

 

I mentioned the techmoan video in one of my other replies. It was his video that got me interested in looking these up. I was especially drawn to the thought that they could be used not only as self playback Midi devices, but also as sound module given they featured a midi in port and had the entire GS sound bank in them. I only happened to discover the MT-120 and MT-200 when I started looking into the specs of the MT-90 that I actually had my eye on. I'm really glad I picked up this MT-200 as it was much less expensive then I thought I might have to pay for something like this and turns out it has more features than what I'd be able to likely do with the MT-80 or MT-90.

 

The Boss unit in the 8-bit guy video is strictly a digital studio composer. So it isn't a sound module and is strictly designed for recording audio into the various 8-tracks to manipulate and create songs.

Edited February 7, 2018 by -^Cro§Bow^-

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I've done a quick video on this tech before, but after my frustrations with lack of information on the web about this specific sound module, I thought I would do a small sieres of videos detailing more about it and what I've discovered in using it. Here is part 1 where I cover the basics on the functions or the modules various buttons and describe the uses of the ports along the back. Especially important is that I do a basic overview of the hidden diagnostic/test menu that is hiding within this module and I suspect others as well. This is Part 1 of what I predict will be a 3 part video series.

Enjoy!

[zzip]

Recently acquired and repaired an Roland MT-200. It is basically like having an SC-55 sound module with the ability to play midi files jukebox style from a floppy disk drive! Aside from not having MT-32 support, it covers the rest of the early 90s era DOS gaming Midi needs. Also this module works great with DosBox, ScummVM, and the X68 Sharp x68k emulator through the use of a Roland UMONE mkii usb to midi adapter set.

 

 

For those interested, I picked up my MT-200 listed in as is condition for $40 shipped. It ran another $40 for a brand new set of the Roland USB - Midi cables. Overall, I'm really happy with it!

 

Repairs needed:

 

Settings and Instrumentation was all goofed up. A factory reset from the hidden diag menus took care of this.

Floppy drive would light up but not read or recognize a disk had been inserted. Turned out to be a bend pin on the floppy interface connector on the mainboard. I'm not the only to have gotten inside this module. Also cleaned up the floppy read/write heads as they were pretty nasty as well. About an hours worth of time to fix given I'd never been inside one of these before.

 

It looks like a police scanner from the 70s/80s, but cool! How does it sound?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

 

It looks like a police scanner from the 70s/80s, but cool! How does it sound?

 

At the end of the video I have a few songs playing directly off the disk drive through the unit. If you have heard stuff on a Roland Sound Canvas before (Especially the SC-55), then you pretty much know what to expect. I've got an MT-32 on the way as well and will hopefully be able to get that working by simply daising chaining it off the Midi Thru from the MT-200.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

And here is part 2 of my MT-200 Tutorial. Mainly covering how to change the date and time because believe it or not, that isn't covered in either of the two main owner manuals these come with and certainly hasn't been documented online anywhere before...until now. Additionally, I go over the full functions of diskette operations such as using the built in format function and how to copy songs back and forth..etc. Finally I show the music playback from diskettes and jukebox mode.

 

 

 

Not sure how much anyone really cares about this LOL! But at least it is here if someone should happen to need information regarding these. Will begin work on part 3 hopefully in the next few days.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I have finished up my tutorial series on this pretty amazing little sound module and sequencer. But I figured it would be better suited to put all of these into my hardware blog I have here at AA instead of this thread which, aside from using this module and others like it for classic PC games, seems to fit better there than in this thread.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/blog/668/entry-14610-complete-roland-mt-200-basic-tutorial-and-guide/

[Gerpux]

How does the MT-200 compare to the MT-120? Is MT-120 still a good box to acquire for a DOS games retro enthusiast? MT-80 and MT-90 had MT-32 support? (I know the MT-100 does. it's basically an MT-32 "new").

Best!

[+-^CrossBow^-]

5 hours ago, Gerpux said:

How does the MT-200 compare to the MT-120? Is MT-120 still a good box to acquire for a DOS games retro enthusiast? MT-80 and MT-90 had MT-32 support? (I know the MT-100 does. it's basically an MT-32 "new").

Best!

Wow, hadn't seen any activity on this thread in some time. The MT-120 as I understand it is similar to the MT-200 but it is actually a slightly newer device. However, I've also been told that the MT-120 is missing the MT-32 rom set and apparently uses a slightly reduced instrument set for the GS banks as well. I still don't own the MT-120, but I still have the MT-200. Although I don't actually use it in my dos gaming setup anymore as I now have the MT-300 in its place currently along with an actual MT-32 and a newer SD-20 module in my setup now.

 

The MT-300 is also very similar and has the larger instrument GS bank setup, but it too doesn't have the MT-32 set like the MT-200 does. And while some of the instrumentation on the MT-300 sounds better in quality (Plus is can play 64 voices at once), some of the sound effects don't sound as good as the MT-200 and actual SC-55 rom set did back in the day. So there are some games that sound really good on the MT-300 without any notes clipping but others not so much and for those I might use the SD-20 or the MT-32 depending on what they support.

And no..the MT-80, MT-90, and the latest of the units MT-90U do not have the MT-32 bankset. It seems this was limited to the MT-200 only because again, the MT-200 is pretty much using the SC-55 setup inside it. 

 

I've never messed with the MT-100 but yes it is the same sequencer device but with the MT-32 linear synth setup inside it. I've never been able to confirm if the MT-100 can be used as a sound module though? Be interested to know if it can as I might actually know as that would be pretty interested and provide another means to get MT-32 goodness for perhaps a cheaper cost. BTW the RA-50 while being massive in size, can be used as an MT-32 but requires some slight wiring modification inside it to turn the MT-32 functionality on and off for it to be done. But again, the RA-50 is quite large and isn't something I could fit into my setup.

 

[Gerpux]

2 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Wow, hadn't seen any activity on this thread in some time. The MT-120 as I understand it is similar to the MT-200 but it is actually a slightly newer device. However, I've also been told that the MT-120 is missing the MT-32 rom set and apparently uses a slightly reduced instrument set for the GS banks as well. I still don't own the MT-120, but I still have the MT-200. Although I don't actually use it in my dos gaming setup anymore as I now have the MT-300 in its place currently along with an actual MT-32 and a newer SD-20 module in my setup now.

 

The MT-300 is also very similar and has the larger instrument GS bank setup, but it too doesn't have the MT-32 set like the MT-200 does. And while some of the instrumentation on the MT-300 sounds better in quality (Plus is can play 64 voices at once), some of the sound effects don't sound as good as the MT-200 and actual SC-55 rom set did back in the day. So there are some games that sound really good on the MT-300 without any notes clipping but others not so much and for those I might use the SD-20 or the MT-32 depending on what they support.

And no..the MT-80, MT-90, and the latest of the units MT-90U do not have the MT-32 bankset. It seems this was limited to the MT-200 only because again, the MT-200 is pretty much using the SC-55 setup inside it. 

 

I've never messed with the MT-100 but yes it is the same sequencer device but with the MT-32 linear synth setup inside it. I've never been able to confirm if the MT-100 can be used as a sound module though? Be interested to know if it can as I might actually know as that would be pretty interested and provide another means to get MT-32 goodness for perhaps a cheaper cost. BTW the RA-50 while being massive in size, can be used as an MT-32 but requires some slight wiring modification inside it to turn the MT-32 functionality on and off for it to be done. But again, the RA-50 is quite large and isn't something I could fit into my setup.

 

Now I´m confused. This thread started with "Recently acquired and repaired an Roland MT-200. It is basically like having an SC-55 sound module with the ability to play midi files jukebox style from a floppy disk drive! Aside from not having MT-32 support, it covers the rest of the early 90s era DOS gaming Midi needs." 
But you said MT-200 does have MT-32 support. Maybe you´re using General Midi with it instead of MT-32?

I own the RA-50 and it doesn't need the hardware hack to enable MT-32 mode. You can do that by pressing a few buttons. What the hardware mod does is disable the arranger of the RA-50 which gets in the way and filters out the proper passing of the "all notes off" command that most games use, leaving notes hanging. So basically the mod switches off RA-50 functionality (but is reversible with a switch). I use SoftMPU which makes this mod unnecessary (and HardMPU has the same support and also makes the mod unnecessary). I strongly recommend RA-50 because IMHO it sounds punchier than real MT-32 (considering the examples I`ve seen), in my setup the sound is delightful.(and BTW it´s not massive at all, not far from an SC-88 size). I added a message to the thread because I saw an MT-120 on sale and I was wondering if the MT-32 support was just like the MT-100 (in which case I would be interested, and in an MT-200 also if it has this support)

[+-^CrossBow^-]

@Gerpux Let me clarify the MT-200 and its MT-32 support. I worded it poorly in both instances.

 

The MT-200 contains a bank set of samples that follow the same basic instrument set of the MT-32. So basically the instrument banks in the MT-200 includes an MT-32 instrument bank set. You have switch over to use it specifically and unlike an actual MT-32, it doesn't support the ability to have custom patches loaded to it. So the even in this MT-32 mode, you can't do as much with those instruments as you could with an actual MT-32. There are a few games that just used the basic MT-32 instruments that didn't mess them or use custom patches that will work for the most part, fine on the MT-200 if you first switch it over to MT-32 mode. I use an old Roland .mid file that does this by 'playing' the mid file in DOS. I use Playmid to do it. Roland included these files when I had my SCB-55 wavetable card back in the mid 90s before getting actual modules. So games like the first Monkey Island and possibly the EGA version of Loom will work and sound pretty much as they should on the MT-200 in the MT-32 instrument mode. But as it cannot load up custom patches or manipulate the samples it uses in that mode, most stuff of the era will still end up sounding wrong. So while the MT-200 does have the ability to switch over to an MT-32 compatible bank set, the lack of being able to do much more than that when using those instruments, means it isn't super useful in the case of older DOS games that could use an MT-32.

 

And I've not seen the RA-50 in person, but all the pictures of it I've seen, it looked quite a bit larger than an MT-32 or most other sound modules of the era.

 

I used to use MUNT for emulating the MT-32 before I found a great deal on the one I own now. And while 90% of everyone out there says that MUNT sounds the same at this point, I still disagree as the first time I heard Willy Beamish on my MT-32 it seemed much more full and rich than I'd ever heard it through MUNT. Could just be a placebo effect, but I really like how the MT-32 sounds as compared to emulation. I've not heard the sound from the MT-100 or the RA-50 but it would be interesting for comparison. 

[phoenixdownita]

Does anyone know if https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=383 aka very affordable general midi based on sam2695 is “good enough” as entry level to play those dos games? Is it mt32 compat?

[Gerpux]

@-^CrossBow^- Thanks for the clarification. I would not find an MT-200 useful for my purposes then. I think the RA-50 is basically MT-32 "new" and I´m happy with it (real hardware is a blessing). If I had to buy old hardware now I would go with an MT-32 "old" to cover the whole MT-32 spectrum (and I believe that means getting a real MT-32, kind of overkill).

@phoenixdownita I have absolutely no idea, sorry!!

[Forrest]

FYI you can buy an MT-32 hat/case on Tindie.com for $18.80 to $62 plus the cost of a Raspberry Pi Zero 2w or 3. The MT-32 emulator actually runs on the Raspberry Pi using https://github.com/dwhinham/mt32-pi and the hat adds a 5 pin MIDI or USB interface, a PCM module for sound and a small screen and buttons for controlling the MT-32 emulator.

Edited May 26 by Forrest

[Gerpux]

I´m familiar with the solution but I don´t emulate. I can go as far as SoftMPU but I have all real period correct hardware. Looking for a vintage MPU401 or LAPC-1. Maybe I can go as far as considering HardMPU as I have a RA-50 (makes sense). Thanks Forrest!

[SlidellMan]

I'm surprised that Audio Pilz hasn't covered the MT-200 after all these years. You did the right thing by repairing the MT-200 and making videos on how to use it.