MrBeefy Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Hmm if I really were into the old 2600 stuff I'd go with the open system with the cart slot and SD card slot on it as the other just seems like a waste of space in comparison. Sure it has a larger set of games, but that's a licensing barrier there among others. The 77 would take whatever for the ROM dude looking for a cheap out with the SD slot, and those wanting games that won't appear on a flashback can use real carts too. Seems almost too good to be true. Hopefully the Genesis handheld, and console, take that route. Yeah but I live in a city that at max has maybe only 5 Atari games for sale in the pawn shops. The retro game store said they will still not carry Atari games once they get the Retron77. Not everyone wants to load up roms and not everyone wants to go to ebay to pay trash prices for combat or pacman. However the Flashback will have enough games on it that while it will be awesome to have an SD, it won't be necessary to have fun. Plus right now the Retron can only hold 18 roms? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Let's assume for a minute that the new Atari Flashback 9 will be running on a Stella emulator (Bill mentioned an upgrade to a more "popular" emulator) and will contain an SD card slot. Since it has been confirmed the Retron 77 is running Stella 3.7.5, it would be advantageous for AtGames to go with Stella 5+. This way most if not all the Atari 2600 original games and homebrews would be playable on the system making it a more attractive purchase. I know that the Retron 77 can be upgraded and plays carts, but so far it sounds like it's not anywhere near 100% compatible with the original and homebrew games. My hope is they have done their homework and went with a more recent version of Stella and have eliminated the latency of the paddle games. Hopefully we hear something by early next month on this! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Atari_Warlord Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I may be in the minority, but I'll probably end up with both products. I think the competition is upping everyone's game. Even if both systems play the same games the wireless controllers are a big plus for this system. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhammond Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 retron 77 was a bust...I got it today and does not play my favorite 3 cart games, then the fire button stopped working. Software related because I tried many joysticks...same issue. Hopefully newer Atari flashbacks will have cart slot (like the Sega Genesis flashback does). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 retron 77 was a bust...I got it today and does not play my favorite 3 cart games, then the fire button stopped working. Software related because I tried many joysticks...same issue. Hopefully newer Atari flashbacks will have cart slot (like the Sega Genesis flashback does). No cartridge slots are planned on the Atari side. However, there will be an easy way to add more games. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 No cartridge slots are planned on the Atari side. However, there will be an easy way to add more games. This was due to unavailability or expensiveness of some 2600 cart slot part, wasn't it? Did the Hyperkin Retron 77 manage it by just charging for this feature vs game licenses? It doesn't look like the Retron 77 can use an SD card or USB for roms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 This was due to unavailability or expensiveness of some 2600 cart slot part, wasn't it? Did the Hyperkin Retron 77 manage it by just charging for this feature vs game licenses? It doesn't look like the Retron 77 can use an SD card or USB for roms. It's just not something on the table. It's just considered a different market than what the Genesis stuff is. It doesn't help that Atari cartridges are older. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 It doesn't look like the Retron 77 can use an SD card or USB for roms. It does have a micro SD card slot. However, there is an 18 rom limit to prevent people from using it for roms only. There is talk about lifting the 18 rom limit, but nobody seems to know if it will become unlimited or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Let's assume for a minute that the new Atari Flashback 9 will be running on a Stella emulator (Bill mentioned an upgrade to a more "popular" emulator) and will contain an SD card slot. Since it has been confirmed the Retron 77 is running Stella 3.7.5, it would be advantageous for AtGames to go with Stella 5+. This way most if not all the Atari 2600 original games and homebrews would be playable on the system making it a more attractive purchase. I know that the Retron 77 can be upgraded and plays carts, but so far it sounds like it's not anywhere near 100% compatible with the original and homebrew games. My hope is they have done their homework and went with a more recent version of Stella and have eliminated the latency of the paddle games. Hopefully we hear something by early next month on this! So much this! If this Flashback runs the newest Stella I will buy it. I had a feeling the Retron wasn't going to be what people were hoping for and if it has an SD slot or can upload through USB there is no need for cart slot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Hyperkin said the 18 game limit would be lifted so you could have more HOMEBREWS on tap. I think they worded it that way for legal reasons. I can't imagining them filtering known titles. Also, Stella 3.x and 4.x had problems paddle errors accumulating. Eventually (in a given range of controller input) the on-screen game object would creep to one side. It'd be like in Breakout or Kaboom, move your controller left-right-left-right 50 or so times, and eventually the buckets or the paddle bar would creep toward the left side of the screen. Especially if you were using anything optically encoded. This issue was fixed in version 5.0.2. It's always been an annoyance for me. But I couldn't say how this error/bias behaves with the microcontroller Hyperkin is using. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Here's looking forward to when the Retron 77 released with Stella 7.1 arrives in a few years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 I hope ATgames is watching the Retron77 news and pump out something that works way better and is way more compatible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 I hope ATgames is watching the Retron77 news and pump out something that works way better and is way more compatible. I hope so as well. The way it stands now, it won't be too hard to beat. Just look at the handheld flashback. It already has a better compatibility rate then the Retron 77. I will be very happy if they have moved to Stella emulation, because unlike Forrest Gump and his box of chocolates, you know what you're going to get! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 If they do Stella emulation, then games would no longer need to be re-written to work. Having to do that is just as bad as the Retron 77 only working with about 60-70% of all the games. Stella is more "official" than that other emulator they used. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whbinder Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 I agree with many others. While a cart slot would be handy and neat, it's certainly not needed if there are ways to load additional games through SD. I sympathize that some users here have plenty of old carts and would love to use them. But I can respect the decision. What I "do" hope for is the ability to include box art for the added games so they can seemlessly integrate into the interface. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TF14 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Stella's site shows that since version 3.5, it is officially "DonationWare." Does that apply to only to enthusiasts like ourselves and Retron/At Games still need to pay a licensing fee? I am asking because I don't get why Retron released a version prior to 5.x or why AtGames at this point just wouldn't use 5.x. Hyperkin said the 18 game limit would be lifted so you could have more HOMEBREWS on tap. I think they worded it that way for legal reasons. I can't imagining them filtering known titles.Also, Stella 3.x and 4.x had problems paddle errors accumulating. Eventually (in a given range of controller input) the on-screen game object would creep to one side. It'd be like in Breakout or Kaboom, move your controller left-right-left-right 50 or so times, and eventually the buckets or the paddle bar would creep toward the left side of the screen. Especially if you were using anything optically encoded.This issue was fixed in version 5.0.2. It's always been an annoyance for me. But I couldn't say how this error/bias behaves with the microcontroller Hyperkin is using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Stella's site shows that since version 3.5, it is officially "DonationWare." Does that apply to only to enthusiasts like ourselves and Retron/At Games still need to pay a licensing fee? I am asking because I don't get why Retron released a version prior to 5.x or why AtGames at this point just wouldn't use 5.x. Using it to play games as an individual is different from putting it into a product to sell for profit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) Yes it is different. Stella's GPL2 license says it's ok to use for commercial and profit as long as the source code is published. Edited July 14, 2018 by Keatah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) Reading the Retron 77 threads, all I can say is I'm glad I didn't buy that thing because of the hoops you have to jump through just to get basic stuff to work. On top of that, you have to choose which features you want because you can't get them all on the same firmware. What a mess! Right now I am just a fan on the sidelines cheering for AtGames to bring their "A Game" this time around! EDIT: Here's to hoping they keep it simple and release just one version. With an SD card slot hopefully incorporated this time, you can add whatever game you like. Love the crisp, colorful menu of the Flashback 8 though. Hope they keep that! Edited July 17, 2018 by atarifan88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 So like Retron77 tries to skate the lines that got a lot of complaining of petty theft by petty people over the R5 and instead makes for a hot mess of clashing and conflicting firmware to run this, but not that by setup? Total hot mess of hot garbage and begging to get hacked to hell and back so true Atari fans can experience all their goodies under one roof, not a gang of small hovels at war with each other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 EDIT: Here's to hoping they keep it simple and release just one version. With an SD card slot hopefully incorporated this time, you can add whatever game you like. Love the crisp, colorful menu of the Flashback 8 though. Hope they keep that! The past is against it. I noticed how department stores, at least in Minneapolis only carried the low end models of the Atari and Genesis flashbacks and I had to buy their top models off the department store websites. Maybe they had the top models in a couple locations around here near the holiday season but I never saw them in stores. I think there is likely to always be a discount model as an eye-grabber in department stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 The past is against it. I noticed how department stores, at least in Minneapolis only carried the low end models of the Atari and Genesis flashbacks and I had to buy their top models off the department store websites. Maybe they had the top models in a couple locations around here near the holiday season but I never saw them in stores. I think there is likely to always be a discount model as an eye-grabber in department stores. Yes, we are still doing tiers, and yes, fewer stores will carry the Gold models. Big retail outlets prefer cheaper SKUs, unfortunately. In fact, we'll be introducing even lower-priced SKUs this year. However, we're adding premium features to even the lowest priced options now, so there should be good choices regardless of price point. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Yes, we are still doing tiers, and yes, fewer stores will carry the Gold models. Big retail outlets prefer cheaper SKUs, unfortunately. In fact, we'll be introducing even lower-priced SKUs this year. However, we're adding premium features to even the lowest priced options now, so there should be good choices regardless of price point. This to me says buy the version you want early! I did this for the Flashback 8 and I'm glad I did because the Gold models could only be found online. In my area, none of the stores carried them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarilovesyou Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 My two cents: why keep re-releasing this thing every Christmas, each at different price points? While I would like to think that current purchases will further innovation, how much innovation does a Flashback really need? I had a hard time not ordering the black activision one, but with so many versions hahing a bit of what I want, I had to pass. I'd rather wait until they sort it out, but how much sorting out needs to be done at stage? Reading lackluster reviews on Amazon about the issues with emulation, lag (a deal breaker for me) also puts me off. Why not just put out two versions, the impulse buy one and a deluxe one? And hire the right people to make the games play as well as they did on the Legacy versions. Maybe I'm off base but that doesn't seem like too tall an order. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 It's an extremely tall order when these mini-consoles are built with cost-cutting and profit as their main motivating themes. None of these are built for the love of the hobby. Each one is an experiment to see how low the price can go and still turn a profit, while not pissing off the fanbase too much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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