+Nathan Strum Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Eh. Whatever. It's all just SpeakerHats to me anyway. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari181 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 But didn't he achieve some of those live, with witnesses? Surely at least those deserve to remain...live in front of who? Todd Rodgers? The problem is that TG did not keep track of who verified what scores. At this point, removing all the scores is the only logical thing to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Kind of puts more obvious amusement perspective into the little angry runt character in that sandler movie Pixels. I don't follow this crap as I really could not care less, but it's hard to avoid. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Razzie.P Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Best way I can liken it was when WWE tried to sheepishly erase Hulk Hogan from it's own history. It's embarrassing. Like the NCAA taking away wins from 10 years ago. Seems more like the Lance Armstrong deal to me. You get caught cheating, your achievements no longer count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Ben Johnson still has his bronze medal from 1984 eventhough his records from 1988 were wiped out. If Billy M has any legitimate scores, I don't see why they would be removed or not accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.E.R.O. Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 But weren't all the scores in question performed in front of live audiences and/or video taped? That kind of negates the ability to stop and save your progress. IIRC, in King of Kong, he simply mailed in a videotape & Walter Day took it as gospel & gave him back the Donkey Kong world record. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 ‘King of Kong’s’ Steve Wiebe Speaks Out After High Score Controversy (EXCLUSIVE) https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/steve-wiebe-interview-1202752495/ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazball Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 TG was right to remove all of Mitchell's high scores, including his "perfect Pac-Man." A total purge was the best course of action. Xelnia (who started the dispute on TG) is a mod on the Donkey Kong Forum and his decision was to leave Billy's ~990K score which was performed live - which was a generous gesture in light of his (Billy's) years of deception. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Kind of puts more obvious amusement perspective into the little angry runt character in that sandler movie Pixels. I don't follow this crap as I really could not care less, but it's hard to avoid. The fact that he even copied Billy Mitchell's facial hair and and haircut for the movie, and played the part of a self absorbed cheating bastard, speaks volumes to this. It's like they somehow already knew... He was Billy Mitchel, just shorter in stature. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiffsGamingVideos Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I have done videos obviously. Sometimes when I do gameplay footage the computer is real slow, maybe like 5fps. This allows me to do things that just can't be done in real time. Then when the video is saved and brought to 30fps it looks normal. It's not on purpose, but because the computer is slow and the recording software takes a toll. I get people that say I a great player on a game like Asteroids. After I stop laughing I explain that I pretty much suck at every video game (except maybe spades). So yeah, it's easy to cheat using MAME, but why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 After Donkey Kong Controversy, Guinness Removes All Of Billy Mitchell's Records https://kotaku.com/after-donkey-kong-controversy-guinness-removes-all-of-1825240701 Guinness World Records will remove Billy Mitchell’s Donkey Kong scores, as well as his records for Pac-Man, from their database following Mitchell’s disqualification from the Twin Galaxies leaderboards yesterday. “The Guinness World Records titles relating to Mr. Mitchell’s highest scores on Donkey Kong have all been disqualified due to Twin Galaxies being our source of verification for these achievements,” a representative of Guinness told Kotaku via email. Mitchell did not return request for comment. Guinness continued, “We also recognize records for First perfect score on Pac-Man and Highest score on Pac-Man. Twin Galaxies was the original source of verification for these record titles and in line with their decision to remove all of Mr. Mitchell’s records from their system, we have disqualified Mr. Mitchell as the holder of these two records. Guinness World Records will look to update and find the appropriate holder of these records in the next few days.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) If they remove legitimate scores from the lists than the lists won't be accurate. Edited April 13, 2018 by mr_me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynicaster Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Outside of the fact that some of his scores may have been achieved in MAME rather than on an original arcade PCB was there any evidence of actual cheating found? As in the game running faster or slower than normal, extra points being awarded, etc.? We can break down the evidence between these two questions: 1) what platform was used to achieve the scores -- arcade or something else? 2) what shenanigans are evident, regardless of what platform was used? Question 1 is the crux of the dispute and, strictly speaking, the only question that needs to be answered to disqualify the scores. I think the evidence to support the answer to this question is about as close to "smoking gun" caliber as humanly possible. The video artifacts Billy's tapes have been shown to be characteristic of MAME, and impossible to reproduce using real arcade hardware. There is a whole pile of circumstantial evidence that would fall under question 2 -- nothing to do with game play videos, but very questionable actions, statements, claims, etc. going back many years. Also under question 2 would be the very anomalous scoring pace that Billy's tapes show. Donkey Kong pseudo-randomly assigns different scores to certain actions in the game, such as smashing barrels. For example, when you smash a barrel, you will be awarded 300, 500, or 800 points and there is no way a player can "control" this -- it's all determined by the state of a random number generator in the game code. I can't believe people have been bothered to do this, but they've gone through Billy's tapes and the tapes of other world record scores and counted up the number of barrel smashes over the 2-3 hours of play, breaking the tally down into 300, 500, and 800 points. Left to chance, one would expect a fairly even distribution of 300, 500, and 800, which is what is seen in the legit submissions from other players. But Billy's tapes show an inordinate number of 800 point smashes that would have a vanishingly low probability of happening due to chance alone. To make it even more weird, all of his taped submissions show this anomaly -- not just one. This suspicious observation has fueled the theory that Billy would play through a stage on MAME, and if he was not happy with his score tally for that screen, he'd use save states to go back and play it again. In this way he would be able to keep a 1mil+ scoring pace by stitching together a "greatest hits" performance that would not be possible to legitimately achieve with his skill level. As far as I know, the highest confirmed "live" score he has achieved is 933k or so. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D. Head Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Twin Galaxies has been a mess for a while. The mess is now a dumpster fire. I honestly think starting over (maybe with a new name) would be the best solution. I honestly think the scores should come from live events, but even that would not rule out shenanigans, so I think maybe I will proceed by no longer giving a shit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 I just wanna know if Billy is gonna do jail time for this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 On another note, I really expected this being AtariAge, a retro-gaming forum and all that, I was expecting this thread to be 25 pages by now. Instead, it's the second thread I find on the topic with barely a handful of posts. Where's the gaming nerd-rage? Where's the self-righteous umbrage? This forum has a bunch of over 40 gamers. I think a lot of us are just too old to get mad at this. If want the butt hurt of angry gamers, just go to any forum that has a game made for e-sports, like Overwatch or League of Legends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polyex Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Best way I can liken it was when WWE tried to sheepishly erase Hulk Hogan from it's own history. It's embarrassing. Like the NCAA taking away wins from 10 years ago. Did not know WWE did that. What for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.E.R.O. Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 You have to wonder who is next. First Todd Rogers, now Mitchell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8th lutz Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I just wanna know if Billy is gonna do jail time for this I doubt it, but Billy is going to be at the Midwest Gaming Classic on Saturday. One of My local tv stations talked to the people at the Midwest Gaming Classic this morning. It sounds like Billy is going show people techniques on how to play the arcade version of Donkey Kong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Did not know WWE did that. What for? His ex put out a video of them in bed, where Hulk was pissed his daughter was dating a black guy and used some disparaging terms. Despite countless wrestlers of color nonetheless backing Hogan, WWE severed ties and has tried to forget he existed. It's a joke. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 TG was right to remove all of Mitchell's high scores, including his "perfect Pac-Man." A total purge was the best course of action. Xelnia (who started the dispute on TG) is a mod on the Donkey Kong Forum and his decision was to leave Billy's ~990K score which was performed live - which was a generous gesture in light of his (Billy's) years of deception. That is most definitely the right thing to do, that's NOT generous, it's what had to be done. He may be a cheating dick, but if that is the best score ever captured in person with eyes on the hands and monitor you can not erase that because of some butt hurt bitter revenge tactics as it's no more honest than his high score scamming was because vacating an honest score is as shady as him scamming some fakes into the records too as it throws off the accurate count taking all into question. I felt much the same against those frogs who nailed Armstrong at Tour de France. He got 100% wiped, but it's a known he wasn't cheating always and the non-cheat records should have stood that could be proven as it makes things just wrong when they were right. Making someone invisible is childish to the extreme. The fact that he even copied Billy Mitchell's facial hair and and haircut for the movie, and played the part of a self absorbed cheating bastard, speaks volumes to this. It's like they somehow already knew... He was Billy Mitchel, just shorter in stature. Yeah and it has been done with such great work, and now like the little runt Billy is kind of in a self imposed jail sentence too so the movie is kind of a bejamin button moment of reality. The big head version of him in Regular Show works just as well too, entirely inflated. I'm glad I don't get involved in this bs or really caring about it as it just seems so shallow compared to real acts of more physical or mental merit. His ex put out a video of them in bed, where Hulk was pissed his daughter was dating a black guy and used some disparaging terms. Despite countless wrestlers of color nonetheless backing Hogan, WWE severed ties and has tried to forget he existed. It's a joke. That's pretty bad, he flips out and uses some dumb words to lash out when he's clearly got many non-white big friends still backing him after that. WWE sucks -- White Washing & Erasing. Cowards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 After Donkey Kong Controversy, Guinness Removes All Of Billy Mitchell's Records https://kotaku.com/after-donkey-kong-controversy-guinness-removes-all-of-1825240701 Does this include the live, verified scores he did in front of judges and audience? That would be hard or impossible to fake. I still feel that his "live performance" scores should remain IMHO; as much of a douchebag he may be, he still holds a place in video gaming history. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I have done videos obviously. Sometimes when I do gameplay footage the computer is real slow, maybe like 5fps. This allows me to do things that just can't be done in real time. Then when the video is saved and brought to 30fps it looks normal. It's not on purpose, but because the computer is slow and the recording software takes a toll. I get people that say I a great player on a game like Asteroids. After I stop laughing I explain that I pretty much suck at every video game (except maybe spades). So yeah, it's easy to cheat using MAME, but why? Unless the low framerate is very consistent, you will mess up. For instance if you go from 60fps to 12fps then back to 60, your timing will not be in sync with the game; it will throw you off and you'll probably lose a life as a result. 5fps with momentary bursts up to 30fps would have a similar effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 I just wanna know if Billy is gonna do jail time for this His reputation is currently in the stocks with a noose around it. Twin Galaxies (and by proxy Guinness) wiping his scores basically is the equivalent of a masked man pulling the lever. There is no reason for criminal court to get involved. His reputation is dead which means justice has been served. He'll wear a scarlett letter on his chest and will be publicly shamed and mocked if he ever steps foot in an arcade or expo again. Lying isn't a crime because he was never under oath while doing it. However, cheating at a video game could be considered fraud if a cash prize were paid to the winner. Also it can be argued that if his high score fame led to commercial endorsements (ie Lance Armstrong being paid royalties for his likeness featured on a Weaties box), then he could be sued in civil court and required to pay back all or part of the endorsement money. However I do not believe there is anything to actually convict him of. They are after all just video games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 I just wanna know if Billy is gonna do jail time for this Yes, but it will be Internet jail time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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