Baby Pac-Man

[Atariboy]

The tension is unfortunate and I feel sorry for both of you since you're both so talented and were in this for the fun rather than the aggravation. But the end result is impressive and I sincerely hope that given some time, both of you and anyone else that contributed like Defender_2600 (I believe he made the label art?) can look back at this accomplishment with pride.

 

I think I can safely say that few homebrews for classic systems will ever aim this high again in the future, nor end up as well done as this. It's unfortunate that the hundreds of fans that will be enjoying this in the years to come can't buy you both a beer to say thanks. Hopefully at the very least those that wish to illegitimately profit off other people's work in the Atari 7800 community will see what they nearly accomplished here with the last few posts and the sour note it's sadly ending with thanks to them, and leave this one be rather than steal it.

 

If they enjoy playing these at all and aren't just following this community to try to make a few illegitimate dollars off of it, they're obviously encouraging a very counter-productive result with their actions.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Atariboy

[Shawn]

Sad to see my friend pressured into posting something he didn't want to. Bob you are the best. To anyone that felt the need to make him feel this way? Well you fill in the blanks here with something really colorful that I will refrain from posting.

[+DrVenkman]

Well this turned ugly, and it makes me sad.

[+darryl1970]

Ok all.

I've had enough. Here are the final BINs for the game.

 

While I very much appreciate the ROMs, I am sorry that it was under these circumstances.

 

Other developers, like CollectorVision, do not make the final ROMs public until the cartridges have made a return on investment.

I think the Intellivision people may do the same thing.

 

Food for thought.

 

You can always share with people in private, with whom you trust. (Even if that's not me, that's your right! )

There are other boundaries that you can set. It doesn't have to be this black and white either.

 

Although I prefer to play on SD carts, I am kind of anxious to add this cart to my collection. (Not just because there isn't a 7800 SD Cart. I think this one's pretty special!)

 

Thank you again for such a unique addition to our libraries!

 

--D

Edited January 16, 2019 by darryl1970

[Inky]

 

I've been wondering what controller method people have been using for the pinball part. I imagine there is the painline controller, the europad, the various Edladdin controllers and, now, Curt's controller. I've been using the 4-way one below, which has worked pretty well, left thumb from the front on the left button and right thumb from the back on the right button. Only thing is, that it is not very conducive to bumping with the joystick, except to bump down. It makes me wonder if there is a gamepad adapter for the 7800 that uses the shoulder buttons on an SNES or some fancy Genesis controller as L/R buttons.

 

Why have I never thought of doing this with my Sega controller?

[Inky]

 

Et tu Kurt?

 

Ok all.

I've had enough. Here are the final BINs for the game. Although I have to say, this has left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not sure if I will publicly do another game. If I do decide to at some point in the future, if I can't do it myself it won't get done. I do this because I enjoy it. This one, however, was not enjoyable.

 

I don't need any more drama, as I've have enough in the past three years personally to last a lifetime.

 

I'm really at a loss here.

 

All I'm going to say at this point is that given the circumstances that the rom was released in, I refuse to download any of them, out of respect for all parties involved.

[Cobra Kai]

I really respect PacManPlus and Kurt for their skills. All I know is I like to be able to buy an actual cartridge because it's really the only way I get to contribute to something this amazing. A little exclusivity would be great, but I understand both sides.

[legeek]

Kurt, have you no tact? Surely you and Bob could have discussed this privately?

[+eebuckeye]

I understood completely wanting to sell carts.. the work deserved some payment even though I'm sure it would be limited! I will still buy a cart to support but people requesting roms for free work especially when one of the near final roms was already available is ridiculous in my opinion.

 

If I can't get it free then I don't want it... guess you didn't want it much them. Not like you put hours and hours of effort into this work like Bob and Kurt did!

[Inky]

I will say one last thing. I have downloaded some roms of Pac Man Plus' games in the past to play and enjoy (I have also purchased a few games as well.) I have offered to PAY Bob for the roms because I appreciated his work.

He refused. I insisted. He still refused.

Bob does this for fun and because he likes to see people happy. People selling his roms outright are taking advantage of him, so I understand why he didn't want to release the final roms.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Inky

[RevEng]

Very very ugly. Enjoy teh warez.

[Dauber]

I wonder if it could be converted to the other Midway pin/vid hybrid "Granny and the Gator," - a title nobody is asking for.

 

The only reason I'm not asking for it is that I don't know how it would be possible on the 7800, with the control scheme at all.

 

I got to play that at Galloping Ghost a while back, and you know what? I highly enjoyed it!

[Kurt_Woloch]

OK... I may have my binaries now, but I'm certainly not happy about the way they were posted... basically under protest, and by throwing in the towel. I meant to post something different, but it seems to be too late now. I wish we could have settled this in peace, but apparently it wasn't possible. All I can say now is that I'm very sorry about everything that happened. I hope I didn't ruin too much by my long posting, and I hope there will still eventually be an agreement on a cart release because I still think there are many people who would like to own Baby Pac-Man on a physical cartridge. As of now, I'm ready to agree to any terms presented in case my agreement should be necessary.

 

Do you think I can do something to remedy what I've just destroyed?

 

To answer some of the other posts, yes, I could have tried to settle this privately with Bob instead of doing this long posting, but I wanted to answer to Bob's comment that he was sure I would want the game to be protected and to the other post questioning if I would have any say... that's why I started posting it, and then it became far too long because I posted all the points that came to mind...

 

About the question if I have any tact and about the way I make other people feel... I'm sorry, but as a functional autist I have certain problems communicating, and it's hard for me to anticipate how someone else may feel about something I say, and also sometimes hard for me to not say something because it might make somebody feel a certain way. Actually, I already had the feeling to have played a big part in ruining everything the first two times Bob dropped the project, and that's actually why I felt obliged to put that much work into it myself in order to make up for that.

 

As for Bob's comments that this game hasn't been enjoyable, this puzzles me a bit. When Bob contacted me about sending back my nearly completed work on the pinball part, he said he was looking forward to do work on Baby Pac-Man again, and then on the other games thereafter like Defender. Looks like that has changed...

[Greg2600]

Obviously I apologize for starting something that derailed the game's work. I really had no idea Bob was so infuriated with pirates, as I personally rarely see them, but I'm not exactly seeking them out either. His are some of the ONLY 7800 homebrew carts I've ever purchased, but it was always nice to have the rom as well. The no ROM edict just took us by surprise, given that Bob has always provided them. He was providing beta iterations seemingly daily if not sooner here. I responded to what I perceived to be a kind of flippant response with one of my own, and shouldn't have.

[blainelocklair]

I will still buy a cart copy from AA if released. I hope everyone involved can work things out for the betterment of the hobby and for their relationships with one-another. The relationships matter more than the stuff anyway.

[Shawn]

Obviously I apologize for starting something that derailed the game's work. I really had no idea Bob was so infuriated with pirates, as I personally rarely see them, but I'm not exactly seeking them out either. His are some of the ONLY 7800 homebrew carts I've ever purchased, but it was always nice to have the rom as well. The no ROM edict just took us by surprise, given that Bob has always provided them. He was providing beta iterations seemingly daily if not sooner here. I responded to what I perceived to be a kind of flippant response with one of my own, and shouldn't have.

 

Go away.

[+sramirez2008]

I consider this game quite an achievement. Just wanted to say Thank You to everyone involved. I will certainly purchase a CIB copy, if/when one becomes available in the Store.

 

Its games like this one that continue to make this hobby an amazing experience. Seriously, who among us ever expected to see Baby Pac-Man available for our beloved home console? For me (and this is just me...not looking to influence anyone) the ability to purchase a new game, with box and manual is part of the overall experience. When that box arrives in the mail from AA, and I get to open it, flip through the manual and pop the game in for the first time...it’s like Christmas.

 

My thanks go out to all of the homebrew developers. May you keep on making games…as long as you want to.

[+Karl G]

I'm definitely in for a copy when it is available. I hope you are both able to come to a place of being happy about your achievement again. Thank you for all the hard work it took to produce something awesome.

[+save2600]

Same here! Am really sad to see how this thread turned out and hope things get sorted to a positive conclusion. You guys and Baby Pac-Man deserve it.

[imstarryeyed]

@Kurt

 

I am not sure I am answering your question but there is no Pinball only mode in the arcade machine.

 

The game set to Arcade in the 7800 is the actual arcade machine reproduction.

 

I think Bob just added the Pinball only mode for testing and to try out and I was expecting it to be removed from the final ROM as the actual arcade does not have it.

There is also no Maze only mode as well.

 

To everyone here who has not had the chance to play a real arcade Baby Pac Man

 

Bob and Kurts version is amazing and the super hard ghosts that cheat and see through the walls and do not have patterns are EXACTLY how the ghosts are in the actual arcade game down to their soulless pupil less eyes haha.

 

Baby pac man is a hard game but the more you play and get better at the pinball part the easier and more even the maze portion plays, the game is very well balanced and thought out, but at first can seem to hard or unfair or even cheap, but with persistence you WILL get better and appreciate these obstacles.

 

 

I know Bob put in an arcade mode for the ghosts for Monster AI but in the arcade there is no Classic mode to make the monsters more like the other versions of pac man, just the arcade flavor. I support if Bob was going to leave Monster AI as optional but I will tell you that I only play on Arcade mode since that mode is the closest to the real thing.

 

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

I am looking forward to buying this game when it comes out and I am proud to have served as a tiny, tiny adviser on this game to help make Bob and Kurt's game as close to the real thing as I can!

 

It was a real honor to work with this team and all of the others on this project, even if it was just a small part!

 

So this means that the final version will only be available in physical form, not as a ROM image? Or will the ROM image be made available as the game hits the AA store? Or will we have to wait until someone dumps the cart, and the ROM makes its way to various ROM sites (as eventually Red Sea Crossing did as well)?

 

As for the pinball only mode, @Imstarryed, maybe you can fill us in on how this one works and what the differences to the regular mode are?

 

As a wild guess, I would speculate the following:

- The player starts in pinball modes and has as many balls as there would normally babies.

- A ball counts as drained with the same rules as normally, that is, there are 3 tries to get it going until something else scoring than the left bumper has been hit

- When the ball hits a hole, it never goes up to the maze, but the ball always gets spit out again

- The fruit and tunnel levels of course don't make that much sense, but the arrows in the middle still advance and eventually give an extra ball after all have been lit

 

One problem I see is how the player should keep track of how many balls are still left... in the original version, the video screen probably is still active, but in the 7800 version, the extra lives only get displayed when in maze mode. Maybe this could be added to the scoring line, or the number of extra balls could be displayed in place of the tunnel speed (with another ball replacing the fruit indicator)?

[Swami]

Thank you both for the effort you put in on this beautiful creation; Possibly the best 7800 game ever! I sympathize that your working relationship was rocky and ended in turmoil. However, I don't think this kind of team conflict is uncommon in many types of work, but it is unfortunate. It is strange how things seemed manageable for so long and then went FUBAR in the last few hours, but I hope you can still be proud of what you achieved and not let it otherwise embitter life outside of this project or change what you enjoy. Sigh.

[+GoldenWheels]

When I finally, hopefully, pop the cart into my system, one of the many beers I drink that night will be tipped in the creators' direction.

[Kurt_Woloch]

@Imstarryeyed:

 

No? No pinball only mode? Maybe this was a misunderstanding, but according to the manual the arcade machine has a DIP switch #16 called "Playfield video adjustment". But according to the game manual, this is for troubleshooting only. If it's on, it says "Playfield will operate only", and off means "Playfield will operate with video".

 

However, since they talk about "for troubleshooting only", this might not be an actual different game mode, but they only switch the video off, but still the game is playing like if the video was there, it's just not visible, not the way Pinball only mode works now in the 7800 version. Could you verify this?

 

@Kurt

 

I think Bob just added the Pinball only mode for testing and to try out and I was expecting it to be removed from the final ROM as the actual arcade does not have it.

[CPUWIZ]

I love it, that you warez heads fell for that ROM.

[TrekMD]

I'm really sorry to see what happened here. It is unfortunate that things get written with little consideration sometimes of how it will impact others and then we end up with a mess of a situation. This game is truly fantastic and a great accomplishment that, as of now, is unique to the Atari 7800. For years I wanted to see this game ported and we finally have it thanks to the efforts of Bob and Kurt. I sure hope the game does get a release in the AA store because I'll be right there ready to buy it. The cart image looks gorgeous and I really want to have this with my other 7800 games. Thanks for all the hard work that went into making this game a reality!