Andromeda Stardust Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Video may take a while to upload... So I had a little bit of one on one time with the Retron77 today. A bunch of homebrews and period releases I was able to get loaded. Pretty much any 4k or 8k game loads flawlessly. I also got Jr Pacman running (16kb). But while booting the actual game carts is one thing, playing them is another story. I'm just a bit disappointed right now. Paddles are borderline unusable, and so are the joysticks. The Fire button on the joystick does not work at all when you first boot a game. Consumers are not going to bother to go looking online or reflash the firmware for this console and get it working right. They'll probably return these to the store and Hyperkin will eat the loss. In it's current state, out of the box, I cannot recommend this product. I was gonna do a review video but it kinda went nerd rage instead once I realized I can't actually play any of the games on it. Video uploading now. Please note this isn't meant as a serious commentary, but for consumers, first impressions are everything. And my first impression of the Retron77 is not a good one. Usability wise, it is basically in a beta state right now... 4 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldLeader Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) "We're processing this video. Check back later." Bummer. I'm sorry it hasn't worked out so far... And, I just ordered my own RetroN 77 2 days ago! I just got the email from Hyperkin saying it's shipped. I trust you more than most Kosmic, I really do. But with all due respect, I'll have to check out mine and make up my own mind. I keep seeing things on the internet about this product sucks or that product sucks; Then when I get one, it's fine. Maybe I just haven't had the time to really put into (for example) the Genesis and Atari HD Flashbacks, but my initial impressions were about the opposite of everything I've read, and while they may not be perfect, they weren't garbage either like some internet folks would have you believe... Maybe this will be another case like that ... Or maybe I better lower my expectations now... Cheers! (I wish I had my own company...I'd start by saying "Hey guys, Let's use the latest build of STELLA..." I'll bet then a lot of problems would just fade away...) Edited July 12, 2018 by GoldLeader 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 Video is up now, takes a long time due to snail slow dsl uplink. Joysticks are essentially non-functional (emulator does not recognize the fire button), and paddles go hard left or hard right with nothing in between. As far as booting actual games, it isn't bad, but without fire button functionality in the emulator, there isn't much of a point. Someone said that reloading the firmware will fix this issue. I'll play with it more this weekend and probably update it to Stella 3.9.3 that Stephena posted. But I imagine a lot of people aren't computer savvy enough to update it. You have to manipulate an actual boot image, which is much more complex than click and drag a binary to the root folder. I imagine a lot of casual gamers may not even own PCs (just smart phones and tablets), or understand how to follow the instructions given on the Retron website for updates if they do still have one kicking around. Imagine a customer buying this at retail, then the joystick won't respond to fire button presses in game. Or the system doesn't display the menu when they first turn it on. They'll assume it's broken and return it. If it's in an unusable state out of the box, that is a very big problem. Even the system menu barely pops up 50% of the time for me in it's current state. I'll play with it some more this weekend and maybe do a "second impressions" video sometime next week after I get the initial bugs fixed. It's essentially in a beta state right now. Hyperkin would have been wise to postpone release a month or two to work out the kinks if it meant shipping a better product. 6 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I'll play with it some more this weekend and maybe do a "second impressions" video sometime next week after I get the initial bugs fixed. It's essentially in a beta state right now. Hyperkin would have been wise to postpone release a month or two to work out the kinks if it meant shipping a better product. Didn't they rush the schedule for a 7/7 release date? And, furthermore, it is common practice to use the consumers as final testers. Anyhow, I couldn't imagine my 10 year old self from back in the day tolerating something like this. I would expect it to work straight out of the box with all my controllers and all my cartridges. It's just how it's supposed to be! (I wish I had my own company...I'd start by saying "Hey guys, Let's use the latest build of STELLA..." I'll bet then a lot of problems would just fade away...) I think the basic philosophy behind R77 is flawed. It's a dumper and emulator. And there will be compatibility issues. How much and how many? I don't know. I just know they're there. Someone said a Software Emulator can work with a cartridge if done right. I'm sure it can, if there is enough talent and smarts behind the design team. I'm not sure if I see that here. Stella is made for PC and rom images, finito! The point is unarguable. And Stella (in R77 clothing) is almost unchanged, so, that means that it is still architected for the PC. And that's not what we want. Doesn't anyone see the mismatch here?? 4 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIO2 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) Stephena said it seems to be an issue with corruption of the stellarc file and is working on a fix. I have not had the problem yet but, I did backup the stellarc file. I made a copy on the sd with a different name thinking perhaps I could just replace that one file if I ever have the problem. I have no idea what causes the issue but am just curious if it has anything to do with either not having a controller in the port when you booted carts or hot swapping the carts (even though the console was supposed to allow this). I have not booted without a controller in and not hot swapped carts. So far, have not had the issue. So, I am interested to see what it turns out to be in the long run. Edited July 12, 2018 by SIO2 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 "We're processing this video. Check back later." Bummer. I'm sorry it hasn't worked out so far... And, I just ordered my own RetroN 77 2 days ago! I just got the email from Hyperkin saying it's shipped. I trust you more than most Kosmic, I really do. But with all due respect, I'll have to check out mine and make up my own mind. I keep seeing things on the internet about this product sucks or that product sucks; Then when I get one, it's fine. Maybe I just haven't had the time to really put into (for example) the Genesis and Atari HD Flashbacks, but my initial impressions were about the opposite of everything I've read, and while they may not be perfect, they weren't garbage either like some internet folks would have you believe... Maybe this will be another case like that ... Or maybe I better lower my expectations now... Cheers! (I wish I had my own company...I'd start by saying "Hey guys, Let's use the latest build of STELLA..." I'll bet then a lot of problems would just fade away...) And I trust you. I'm looking forward to your impressions on this thing. Some are posting it works flawlessly then KS posts this video so obviously there are some bum units out there. I don't know how well quality control is at Hyperkin but it seems it needs some attention. The Retron 5 doesn't even have a great rep and I can't get some of my NES carts to work on that so none of this really surprises me. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I hope they can fix it with a firmware update. Thanks for posting the informative and funny video! From now on, I'm going to hear your Gulf accent every time I see one of your posts. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 His Gulf accent beats my boring North East one any day. Anyway, time will tell how representative these issues are. It would not be a fool's bet at all to guess it ends up being widespread as more people get their consoles. I was kind of soured on Hyperkin products after the problems I had with a Retron 3 and a Retron 5. Big reason I didn't pre-order this. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Hilarious! The video and the product. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I did a review of the console myself and do not disagree with what you are saying, though I have a much more optimistic viewpoint of the situation. Eventually many of these things can be fixed and are being fixed for the future. I do wonder why if more testing and time could have been used to offer a more updated product before release. Also, it would have been more transparent to have a compatibility list of what works/does not. In the current state, it many games work but a few notable ones do not. Not knowing that ahead of time will only add to the consumer frustration. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I inserted a whole stack of carts to see what actually booted up, with no controllers attached. Then when I put in the joystick, I noticed the fire button was not working. Interesting, I'll try booting without a stick and see what it does. If it actually does 'break' the fire button that might be considered somewhere in the realm of 'completely broken out of the box' Otherwise I'd have to disagree with that as a blanket statement describing the current state and functionality of the Retron 77... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I've tried to replicate the reported fire button issue by swapping lots of carts (hot and cold) without a controller plugged in and have not been able to replicate it. Paddles are borderline unusable What do you mean by this? The paddles seem to work fine. Given the known limitations going in (homebrew specifically) and with the 'newer old' version of Stella on the device - I have to say I'm fairly satisfied with the Retron 77 as a package overall given its intent and stated scope. Are there things that could be improved - sure, and I hope they are. I'm going to have to say that 'completely broken out of the box' most certainly does not describe the current state and seems at the very least hyperbolic and at worst disingenuous... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 What do you mean by this? The paddles seem to work fine. Watch starting from about 2:58 of the video. The paddles are behaving erratically. I suppose it could be the paddles themselves but my guess would be they work fine on regular 2600s 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 It is possible that you received a defective unit, this guy has issues not too dissimilar to yours : Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Watch starting from about 2:58 of the video. The paddles are behaving erratically. I suppose it could be the paddles themselves but my guess would be they work fine on regular 2600s I see. Not had that issue here, I've tried three different sets of paddles plugged in both before and after power on. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 Watch starting from about 2:58 of the video. The paddles are behaving erratically. I suppose it could be the paddles themselves but my guess would be they work fine on regular 2600s my paddles go hard right turned 90% to the right, and go hard left turned 90% to the left. the remaining 80% of travel is a very large deadzone where no movement takes place. i cannot position the onscreen paddle anywhere in the middle. on real hardware it utilizes about 25% of the total range, but i get smoothe, jitter free motion with onscreen position proportional to the angle of rotation. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Paddles are definitely an issue. But didn't you try a different 2600 controller? GorfCadet already found out that for some reason the original 7800 controllers won't work with it but his other controllers do. I'm not excusing the thing, but why not show trying to use the controller it came with or an actual CX-40 to make sure it isn't just something it doesn't like with the controller you are trying to use? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 maybe hotswapping paddles with joysticks confuses the emulator? its as if its using the paddles to simulate the x axis of a joystick (with enormous deadzone), then using this virtual stick to control the onscreen paddle. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 Paddles are definitely an issue. But didn't you try a different 2600 controller? GorfCadet already found out that for some reason the original 7800 controllers won't work with it but his other controllers do. I'm not excusing the thing, but why not show trying to use the controller it came with or an actual CX-40 to make sure it isn't just something it doesn't like with the controller you are trying to use? mine has two buttons but is wired the same as a normal 2600 controller. no resistors, joystick wired to pins 1-4, both buttons wired to pin 6. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) The paddle routines were entirely re-written in Stella version 5.x. One of the issues was creep and changing bias. Eventually they'd get stuck on one side of the screen. So. With the microcontroller Hyperkin is using to interface the paddles, maybe other problems manifest themselves, but it's really related to this pre-5 bias and drift. Edited July 12, 2018 by Keatah 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 my paddles go hard right turned 90% to the right, and go hard left turned 90% to the left. the remaining 80% of travel is a very large deadzone where no movement takes place. i cannot position the onscreen paddle anywhere in the middle. on real hardware it utilizes about 25% of the total range, but i get smoothe, jitter free motion with onscreen position proportional to the angle of rotation. Maybe this can be fixed in the settings for Stella. I have no time to try it now. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) Look! I don't like the quality of the soldering in this. Look at the cartridge connector. the red arrows. The holes are not completely full. Some connections are not completely soldered! A perfect example of cost-cutting. There is simply not enough solder being used. And what little is used it hasn't been given enough time and flux to flow. I can't imagine this tacked-on connector maintaining any sort of integrity over the long haul. Absolutely nothing like the high quality original built in the 1970's. Cheap china shit is what we got. So.. more solder needs to be used and the process (hand or machine) needs to slow down. Both corrective actions add increased cost. And second.. Everyone knows how you have to wrestle with some cartridges, especially Activision carts and others with non-standard sizes/housings. Where are the screws to hold this connector to the board? All that flexing and tugging and pushing going on with the carts is going to eventually break those already feeble solder joints. Note the blue arrows indicating provision for screws. This connector should be firmly and mechanically attached to the PCB - like the original consoles. Instead it is relying on half-assed soldering to do double duty. Because adding screws would up the cost.. Edited July 12, 2018 by Keatah 5 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 mine has two buttons but is wired the same as a normal 2600 controller. no resistors, joystick wired to pins 1-4, both buttons wired to pin 6. I understand that I was only curious and making a suggestion. After all there shouldn't really be much difference in the original 7800 controllers and the Danthwader and other converted NES style controllers, yet there apparently is because the controllers behaved differently when used with the Retron 77 in Gorf's video. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4068995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 These pictures are from an early review copy. Maybe someone might have a look at a production run board. Just to be sure. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4069003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 These pictures are from an early review copy. Maybe someone might have a look at a production run board. Just to be sure. If that auto-routing maze around the RAM is of any indication of the production of retail units, expect issues. The autorouter was definitely on autopilot in that area. Then again, this is Hyperkin we're talking about, Q&A issues are not unknown. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/280650-retron77-is-completely-broken-out-of-the-box/#findComment-4069014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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