Pinball games

[Asmusr]

 

I guess an array with a nibble (half a byte) per pixel would do, but then maybe that approach will take up too much memory.

 

Guess you've seen this.

 

...

 

https://github.com/leonardo-ono/JavaBitmapMaskPinballTest

 

Thanks, I didn't notice the Java code link before. This is very helpful for trying to implement the same demo on the TI. If I load the playfield image (background.png) into Magellan it calculates 253 vertical character transitions, so it should be possible to make a 2 pixel smooth scroller for this demo.

 

I can use a ROM banks for storing the collision map since so I'm not so worried about the space. For this demo it would take 40K.

 

I still don't know how the collision map was produced. I think you need a tool where you can draw as many normal vectors on top of the playfield image as you like, and then the tool interpolates the vectors and calculates the collision map.

 

There is a Java tool in the source code for the C64 Pinball Dreams demo, but I'm not sure yet what it's for and how it works:

https://files.scene.org/view/resources/code/sources/pindreams64_src.zip

Look under PD/tools/PD/run.bat

[Asmusr]

There is a Java tool in the source code for the C64 Pinball Dreams demo, but I'm not sure yet what it's for and how it works:

https://files.scene.org/view/resources/code/sources/pindreams64_src.zip

Look under PD/tools/PD/run.bat

 

Yes, it looks like that tool can be used to produce a collision map.

[Asmusr]

I finally made a proof of concept for the TI, very similar to the Java demo that sometimes99 posted a video of a while back, but with scrolling. You can just view the ball bouncing around, or press joystick left and right to steer the ball a little.

 

The collision map is stored uncompressed, so it takes up 40K of the 64K ROM image. From the collision map I get a byte value that can be used to check if there is a wall at the given point and to look up a normal vector for the wall. The normal vector can then be used to calculate the reflection vector for the ball when it hits the wall. Calculations are done using fixed point arithmetic.

 

 

 

pinball-demo-8.bin

source.zip

[+arcadeshopper]

nice!

[fabrice montupet]

Very nice and promising!

[+Vorticon]

Super smooth. Would love for this to turn into a full game!

[+OLD CS1]

In terms of a game, half of the work, the difficult half at that, looks to be done: the physics are in place, the mask and collision routines are written, and the scrolling is functional (per any Rasmus production.)

 

Here we have a template for any pinball game anyone might want to produce, even a construction set for the TI.

[digdugnate]

Zero Zap is like pinball- *ducks and runs*

[globeron]

I like the TI-99/4A - Micro Pinball version of course:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMRKgdIkuWg

 

 

but on the PC also played this one a lot (4 different in 1 game):

>> Here you can play it online: https://classicreload.com/pinball-fantasies.html

(use SHIFT LEFT and RIGHT, Arrow Back, Space Bar)

 

I still remember these music themes:

Pinball Fantasies:

1. Speed Devils (at 0.45min you can see the selection screen) -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qka_9iI2DFI

2. Party Land - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rEehNb4eQg

3. Stones 'n Bones - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOnEf6UsF_4

4. Billion Dollar Show - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgvNn4iumq8

Edited October 28, 2018 by globeron

[Asmusr]

In terms of a game, half of the work, the difficult half at that, looks to be done: the physics are in place, the mask and collision routines are written, and the scrolling is functional (per any Rasmus production.)

 

Here we have a template for any pinball game anyone might want to produce, even a construction set for the TI.

 

I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

 

The next step is adding flippers. My first idea was to use sprites, but with two flippers vertically aligned I don't see how we can to avoid running into the 4 sprites per line limitation. Not having them vertically aligned is a possibility, but it breaks with the classic pinball machine layout.

 

If sprites are not an option then the flippers have to be made from characters. But with the smooth scrolling, that requires approximately 16 characters (out of 256) per position for each flipper. With 4 position that's 128 characfers = half of the character set, which could otherwise be used for the playfield.

 

A combination of one sprite per flipper plus characters is another option. It's possible but far from simple. Either that or abandoning the idea of smooth scrolling.

 

No matter how the flippers are displayed there's still the issue of how to determine when the ball hits a flipper and what the normal vector of the flipper is at the time of impact. I don't have a clear idea of how to do that. Making collision maps for the flippers at diffent (virtual?) positions is one option.

[+OLD CS1]

I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

 

While talking up the work you have done, already, I was also deliberately avoiding the more complex issues.

 

During my college network security course I lamented to my instructor, who also invited me into the program, about how so many of the other students did not seem to be taking the course seriously -- or at least as seriously as I was. To them I was an over-achiever, a.k.a. "that asshole who didn't give everyone a 10 on their presentations." I also pointed out a couple of deeper subjects related to what we were learning I thought the course should include.

 

He said to me, "Remember this is just an undergrad course. We want them interested up-front and not scare them off so quickly."

 

No matter how the flippers are displayed there's still the issue of how to determine when the ball hits a flipper and what the normal vector of the flipper is at the time of impact. I don't have a clear idea of how to do that. Making collision maps for the flippers at diffent (virtual?) positions is one option.

This was how I envisioned the flippers would work.

[Retrospect]

Rasmus mentioned characters and sprites not being an option. I noticed during one of my games my sprite/char was off, the further across the screen it went. I'm not sure but i think TI Invaders uses sprites to chars for player shot vs the enemies. Is there any way to do it accurately at all for all parts of the screen? That way flippers could be character tiles and ball obviously a sprite?

[+OLD CS1]

The other option is to only scroll in sections. One of the games I posted above does that.

[jrhodes]

I may as well ask here rather then a new thread:

Can anyone provide manuals for micro pinball, and micro pinball II?

[digdugnate]

you can find the manual for Micro Pinball here: http://atariage.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=attach&tid=248687

[Asmusr]

I made another demo. This time full screen and with flippers, which is probably the most difficult part to get right. It would be better if the flippers were wider, but the 4 sprite limitation makes that difficult. 

 

 

This is a cartridge image, e.g. for FinalGROM. Launch ball by holding down space for a while and releasing. Control flippers using Z and M. If the ball gets stuck use space to tilt.

pinball-demo2-8.bin

[+mizapf]

The first "thumbs up" is from me. ?

 

And the RPK.

pinballdemo2.rpk

[TheMole]

Very cool stuff, but why do the flippers have to be sprites? Can't they work just as well as background tiles? Or is the tile budget too small for that?

[Tursi]

Super impressive!

 

[sparkdrummer]

Freaking Awesome!

The flipper sizes are the same size as flippers that were in the first Pinball machines that were equipped with flippers, I see no issue. If you're an old fart like me you played many tables that had flippers that were this size.

Please, please, please keep going with this!

 

[tmop69]

It looks great. I hope that it will move from a "demo" to a final release! ? 

[+TheBF]

Amazing!

[+retroclouds]

First thing I thought when I saw the demo, is that it’s begging for some speech synth voice support

[Asmusr]

11 hours ago, TheMole said:

Very cool stuff, but why do the flippers have to be sprites? Can't they work just as well as background tiles? Or is the tile budget too small for that?

As you know, with the smooth scrolling technique you can very quickly use a lot of characters. So far, with the pretty rough graphics, I'm using about 100 characters out of 256 (that the number of transitions from a base set of 56 characters). I'm planning to save the remaining characters for some slightly more interesting background graphics. Maybe it's not so easy to see, but the flippers actually consist of 6 frames each, so that could easily eat up all the remaining characters. 

One idea would be to make the flippers part sprites part characters. Perhaps they could be drawn so the thickest part was always the same, and that part could be characters?

Another way forward would be to forget about the smooth scrolling. That would free up a lot of characters and then it would also be possible to use bitmap mode colors. But I have crossed that bridge and I'm not coming back. ?

But as sparkdrummer wrote, short flippers is not really a big issue, you just have to build up your skills :-). 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Asmusr

[+TheBF]

Would it possible to delicately animate the high-light on the marble to create the illusion of rolling? 

It might not take very much.