SvOlli Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) Hello! Tjoppen came up with the idea on a maximum minimal demo, called "grey screen with no music" which only uses 16 bytes: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=77867 It kept me thinking. For me it's too minimal, because it does not generate a sync signal. So right now, I'm thinking if a "more complete" demo could be done in ... lets say ... 32 bytes. Since address decoding always work on powers-of-two, anything between 17 bytes and 32 bytes can be considered the same. But still it would be interesting to see what could be done as a minimum, anyway. The demo can be devided in 3 parts: 1) hardware init 2) generate sync 3) "display something" and wait for next frame For 1) there is already an 8 bytes version, done by Andrew, if I recall correctly. The "CLD" can be dropped, as no "ADC" or "SBC" will be used. For 2) and 3), I would go for 60Hz, as 262 lines "almost" fit in one 8-bit loop. Maybe, if the sync can be larger than 3 lines [6 to 8], we can go for a "mainscreen" of 254 to 256 lines. The loop value can be written to COLUBK, which will be a fair effect. So, as it is to late for me to start hacking anything tonight, I think, I'll come up with a nice suggestion tomorrow, if no-one starts to contribute earlier. Edited September 10, 2018 by SvOlli 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremiahK Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 If you don't care about where the stack pointer points to, you can clear zeropage in 7 bytes by simply pushing the value '0' 256 times: lda #0 tax clear_stack pha dex bne clear_stack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 If you're not worried about the opcode police, you can use "lax #0" instead of "lda #0", and skip the "tax". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremiahK Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Unfortunately, LAX has no immediate addressing mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Unfortunately, LAX has no immediate addressing mode. Hah, you're right. Guess I'm slipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackAttack Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 This is the best I could come up with in one sitting. It's more of a 2 step process since the TIA is initialized each frame. Zack's 32 byte demo - padded.bin Zack's 32 byte demo.bin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 If you don't care about where the stack pointer points to, you can clear zeropage in 7 bytes by simply pushing the value '0' 256 times: lda #0 tax clear_stack pha dex bne clear_stack If you are not worried about decimal mode, then you can drop the CLD from my clear routine: cld .loopClear: ldx #$0A ; ASL opcode = $0A inx txs pha bne .loopClear+1 ; jump between operator and operand to do ASL The result from it is all TIA registers cleared, RIOT ram clear, SP=$FF, A=0, X=0, Carry is clear, and all in eight bytes! In this case it would be seven bytes if you lose CLD, which normally you would not do. If you're not worried about the opcode police, you can use "lax #0" instead of "lda #0", and skip the "tax". You are thinking of LXA (opcode $AB). Unfortunately it is unstable. LAX however is stable, but yeah no immediate mode. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremiahK Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) Now, that. That is some beautiful code there. The TXS can also be removed, if desired. Edited September 11, 2018 by JeremiahK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremiahK Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) It seems that 64B is the smallest possible program that runs in Stella, so here is my version, padded with first 32 zeroes, then the 32 bytes of code. PROCESSOR 6502 include "vcs.h" SEG CODE ORG $FFC0 REPEAT 32 .byte 0 REPEND code ldx #$0A ; 2 inx ; 1 pha ; 1 bne code+1 ; 2 fram lda #%00111110 ; 2 sync sta WSYNC ; 2 sta VSYNC ; 2 lsr ; 1 bne sync ; 2 iny ; 1 sty PF1 ; 2 krnl sta WSYNC ; 2 dey ; 1 dex ; 1 sty COLUPF ; 2 bne krnl ; 2 beq fram ; 2 ORG $FFFC .word code .word code Edit: Added 2K version, as suggested by Zack 32b_demo.bin 32b_demo.bin Edited September 11, 2018 by JeremiahK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Now wire up a diode cart. Only needs to be half of the 64 byte one in this video! Somebody make a parts list so we can build one as a kit project? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Did y'all open an issue? And was are dumb misspelt to make it a 666 byte source file? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackAttack Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 It seems that 64B is the smallest possible program that runs in Stella, so here is my version, padded with first 32 zeroes, then the 32 bytes of code.If you're going to pad it you might as well go for a full 2K. That way you can be sure it will run on harmony, uno, and any other programmable carts. I tested yours and mine with uno and 7800 on a crt tv. Both of the demos appeared as they do in Stella. Now wire up a diode cart. Only needs to be half of the 64 byte one in this video! Somebody make a parts list so we can build one as a kit project? Maybe use DIP switches instead so it can be reprogrammed. As amusing and tempting as this is, it might be more practical to take everyone's demos and combine them with a menu program into a single cart. It could be a collection of demos and games that can be played with the cartridge removed since these will all fit in RIOT RAM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvOlli Posted September 11, 2018 Author Share Posted September 11, 2018 You are thinking of LXA (opcode $AB). Unfortunately it is unstable. LAX however is stable, but yeah no immediate mode. This opcode is unstable in all conditions but one. Due to the bus driven by more than one "writer" it can happen that someone else inside the CPU will toggle bits from "1" -> "0" (CPU is low-active). So LXA #$00 is stable, because there is no "1" that can be turned to "0". 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremiahK Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 So you can clear all of zeropage, as well as A and X, in only 6 bytes: lxa #0 .clear pha dex bne .clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvOlli Posted September 11, 2018 Author Share Posted September 11, 2018 reset: ; @FFE4 ; thanks to Omegamatrix ldx #$0A ; ASL opcode = $0A inx txs pha bne reset+1 ; jump between operator and operand to do ASL mainloop: lda #%00111110 ; each '1' bits generate a VSYNC ON line (bits 1..5) syncloop: sta WSYNC sta VSYNC ; 1st '0' bit resets VSYNC, 2nd '0' bit exit loop lsr bne syncloop ; branch until VSYNC has been reset kernelloop: inx stx WSYNC stx COLUBK bne kernelloop bit reset beq mainloop Here's my idea: 28 bytes, 36 leading zero-bytes. No illegal opcodes. But I'm pretty sure that Thomas will be able to squeeze some bytes of the that code... I tested it without executing the reset routine in Stella with randomizing all, and it still works, so I could spare some extra 7 bytes. minidemo.bin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Now wire up a diode cart. Only needs to be half of the 64 byte one in this video! Somebody make a parts list so we can build one as a kit project? Was going to post that when I saw this thread There's some information about it in my old thread, but I never drew up any schematics. I can give more info if anyone is interested. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/226940-diode-matrix-rom-for-atari-2600/ Shortly after doing that 64 byte cart, I designed and started building a 16 byte ROM with just transistors and diodes. Probably have the ROM somewhere, don't remember exactly what it did. I ended up giving up on the cart part way through building it because I discovered that I had damaged some of the MOSFETs (ESD?) while building it, and construction was very painful because I was handwiring SMD parts onto a board like the one in the video. May go back to it some day, just thought it would be cool to have a cartridge with no integrated circuits . It's always fun to squeeze something into a tiny ROM. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) I tested it without executing the reset routine in Stella with randomizing all, and it still works, so I could spare some extra 7 bytes. Stella doesn't randomize TIA registers (not yet, but there's an open issue on github for that), so you might get vertical bars depending on the initial state of players and missiles if you don't initialize on real hardware Edited September 11, 2018 by alex_79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 This opcode is unstable in all conditions but one. Due to the bus driven by more than one "writer" it can happen that someone else inside the CPU will toggle bits from "1" -> "0" (CPU is low-active). So LXA #$00 is stable, because there is no "1" that can be turned to "0". Might be very useful then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) Okay, here is a demo I just made: ; short 32 byte demo, rev b ; by Omegamatrix ; last update Sept 11, 2018 processor 6502 LIST OFF include vcs.h LIST ON ORG $F800 .byte $FF ORG $FFE0 Start: ;SP=$FD at startup .loopClear: asl pha tsx bne .loopClear ;RIOT ram $80-$F6 clear, TIA clear except VSYNC, SP=$00 .doVSYNC: lda #$0E << 2 ; does two lines (non-Vsync), and then the regular 3 lines of VSYNC .loopVSYNC: sta WSYNC sta VSYNC sta CTRLPF ; reflect for symmetrical PF2 lsr bne .loopVSYNC dex ; scroll color and shape .loopKernel: sta WSYNC dex stx PF2 stx COLUPF dey bne .loopKernel .byte $0C ; NOP, skip 2 bytes ORG $FFFC .word Start beq .doVSYNC ; always branch It's padded to make up the 64 bytes. In the start-up routine I take advantage of the SP being at $FD, so it is a 5 byte clear. There was a thread a while back about the SP being at $FD at power on. That trick probably won't work if you are loading this rom through the harmony cart menu screen, as the SP might not be at $FD. If you flash the game as a single rom image then it should work. I haven't tested it on real hardware yet, but a single rom image would be important. short32_b.binEdit:Originally I had the 5 line VSYNC like others have posted, and whether that worked or not was dependent on how tolerant your TV was. I have since changed it to a regular 3 line VSYNC with a couple extra lines of to make up the 262 total. I also redid the rom to be padded to 2K for ease of use. Edited September 12, 2018 by Omegamatrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) I made a new demo, with some sound! Not to sure what to expect or real hardware. If you try this make sure it is a single rom image on Harmony. ; short 32 byte demo, with sound! ; by Omegamatrix ; last update Sept 11, 2018 processor 6502 LIST OFF include vcs.h LIST ON ORG $F800 .byte $FF ORG $FFE0 Start: ;SP=$FD at startup .loopClear: asl pha tsx bne .loopClear ;RIOT ram $80-$F6 clear, TIA clear except VSYNC, SP=$00 .doVSYNC: lda #$0E << 2 ; does two lines (non-Vsync), and then the regular 3 lines of VSYNC .loopVSYNC: sta WSYNC stx AUDC0+5,Y ; write to each audio register dey sta VSYNC lsr bne .loopVSYNC tay ; Y=0 dex ; scroll color and shape .loopKernel: sta WSYNC dex stx COLUBK dey bne .loopKernel .byte $0C ; NOP, skip 2 bytes ORG $FFFC .word Start beq .doVSYNC ; always branch short32_sound.bin Edit: added a modified rom padded to 2K for ease of use. Edited September 12, 2018 by Omegamatrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) I had a bug with the sound rom through the first loop, as Y is unitialized so you don't know what register it writes to. Solution, flip Y and X, as X=0 after the clear loop. I also moved VSYNC right after WSYNC, so that it is more standard. ; short 32 byte demo, with sound! (rev b) ; by Omegamatrix ; last update Sept 11, 2018 processor 6502 LIST OFF include vcs.h LIST ON ORG $F800 .byte $FF ORG $FFE0 Start: ;SP=$FD at startup .loopClear: asl pha tsx bne .loopClear ;RIOT ram $80-$F6 clear, TIA clear except VSYNC, SP=$00, X=0, A=0, carry is clear .doVSYNC: lda #$0E << 2 ; does two lines (non-Vsync), and then the regular 3 lines of VSYNC .loopVSYNC: sta WSYNC sta VSYNC sty AUDC0+5,X ; write to each audio register dex lsr bne .loopVSYNC tax ; X=0 dey ; scroll color and shape .loopKernel: sta WSYNC dey sty COLUBK dex bne .loopKernel .byte $0C ; NOP, skip 2 bytes ORG $FFFC .word Start beq .doVSYNC ; always branch Here's the new rom: short32_sound_b.bin Edited September 12, 2018 by Omegamatrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almightytodd Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 This is so awesome! You guys are geniuses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I made one more. Looks cool in Stella. ; short 32 byte demo (New Gold Dream) ; by Omegamatrix ; last update Sept 11, 2018 processor 6502 LIST OFF include vcs.h LIST ON ORG $F800 .byte $FF ORG $FFE0 Start: ;SP=$FD at startup .loopClear: asl pha tsx bne .loopClear ;RIOT ram $80-$F6 clear, TIA clear except VSYNC, SP=$00, X=0, A=0, carry is clear .doVSYNC: lda #$0E << 2 ; does two lines (non-Vsync), and then the regular 3 lines of VSYNC .loopVSYNC: sta WSYNC sta VSYNC lsr bne .loopVSYNC .loopKernel: sty HMP0 sta WSYNC sta HMOVE sty GRP0 sty COLUP0 dey bne .loopKernel .byte $0C ; NOP, skip 2 bytes ORG $FFFC .word Start beq .doVSYNC ; always branch Here's the rom: short32_NewGoldDream.bin 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 I made a few more roms, and these were the better ones of them: short32_ACD.bin short32_Cubix.bin short32_DiskData.bin 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvOlli Posted October 6, 2018 Author Share Posted October 6, 2018 So, my final result of 32 byte demo coding is now available here: https://xayax.net/hard2632/ More discussion after the demo party! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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