Why is no one talking about this new Hyperkin Genesis HD clone?

[+chicgamer]

This isn't for me, as I'll stick with my childhood Genesis as long as it continues to function, but it's cool to see an affordable new system that works well. I would have considered buying this for a friend if I hadn't set her up earlier this year with a Genesis 2.

[MantaNZ]

@derFunkenstein Nice, thanks mate! I literally only have one SMD and one SMS cart now but if it's a good console I'll pick one up to play Road Rash and Outrun

Edited October 31, 2018 by MantaNZ

[derFunkenstein]

So this thing does a great job. The only carts I own are Sonic 2, Sonic 3, S&K, and SoR2. They all play and look great, but theres a little blur. Decent bass, unlike the Supa Retron videos Ive seen. It sounds close, better than an early Genesis 2 to me. Not as good as an HD Graphics model obviously. No noticeable lag, either. Theres probably a frame or three but its better on the lag front than the Shield running RetroArch.

 

If youre too cheap for an OSSC with original hardware (lots of folks are) then this is a fine second.

Edited November 1, 2018 by derFunkenstein

[AtariLeaf]

I'm the same in that I own like 5 carts so it's not worth it to me. Same with the SNES. I'll just use the real thing or a cheap clone console. I'm in on the Collectorvision Phoenix so I don't have any extra cash for another FPGA console anyway.

[+Gemintronic]

I need real hardware. Some of the previous "HD" systems turned out to be emulation although hinted at as hardware. I'll wait and see what happens with this one.

 

Not part of the emu vs hardware crowd. Emulation tends to play a little too nice with the games I develop. I need something that will fail (and work) like a real system.

[derFunkenstein]

I'm the same in that I own like 5 carts so it's not worth it to me. Same with the SNES. I'll just use the real thing or a cheap clone console. I'm in on the Collectorvision Phoenix so I don't have any extra cash for another FPGA console anyway.

 

Since I have a Mega Sg on preorder, I figured there's no time like the present for an Everdrive X5. It'll be here today.

 

I've owned a few clones for both Genesis and NES and they've never been good enough for me. Super Retro Trio, Minigen, an AtGames Firecore-based system (which was laughable because it was simultaneously officially licensed and the worst of the bunch), and an FC Twin. None of them were satisfactory. This one is pretty doggone good with that in mind. After I get my Mega Sg, this will become a backup of sorts.

Edited November 1, 2018 by derFunkenstein

[derFunkenstein]

As expected, my Everdrive came today. Had an SD card ready to go. And there's something a little...weird I noticed.

 

I didn't see it playing Sonic or SoR2, but it jumped out to me today when playing Street Fighter 2. The image has a definite shimmer to it. Scrolling vertically you can't see it, but scrolling horizontally across images that have vertical lines, you can see it. What's happening is that every X lines (one out of 3? 2 out of 5? I'm not sure) the width of a pixel is doubled, and that's how it goes from square pixels to a 4:3 image. So, like, in E. Honda's bath house, the tile edges get wider and smaller as the screen slowly scrolls back and forth.

 

This effect is also present in the NES mini if you're using a 4:3 mode rather than "pixel perfect". My Life in Gaming's video on the NES classic shows it. The problem with the Mega Retron HD is that this isn't done at 720p like it is on the NES. It's done at (my guess, probably...) 480p before the image is upscaled, and the effect is much more pronounced.

 

So it'll get me until the Mega Sg comes out because it's a cheap HDMI Genesis. If you have a way to play Genesis games and you're happy with it, stick with that.

[MantaNZ]

As expected, my Everdrive came today. Had an SD card ready to go. And there's something a little...weird I noticed.

 

I didn't see it playing Sonic or SoR2, but it jumped out to me today when playing Street Fighter 2. The image has a definite shimmer to it. Scrolling vertically you can't see it, but scrolling horizontally across images that have vertical lines, you can see it. What's happening is that every X lines (one out of 3? 2 out of 5? I'm not sure) the width of a pixel is doubled, and that's how it goes from square pixels to a 4:3 image. So, like, in E. Honda's bath house, the tile edges get wider and smaller as the screen slowly scrolls back and forth.

 

This effect is also present in the NES mini if you're using a 4:3 mode rather than "pixel perfect". My Life in Gaming's video on the NES classic shows it. The problem with the Mega Retron HD is that this isn't done at 720p like it is on the NES. It's done at (my guess, probably...) 480p before the image is upscaled, and the effect is much more pronounced.

 

So it'll get me until the Mega Sg comes out because it's a cheap HDMI Genesis. If you have a way to play Genesis games and you're happy with it, stick with that.

Thanks for the info. That's a deal-breaker for me. But just out of interest, does it play Virtua Racing?

[derFunkenstein]

Dunno. I don't have one. It doesn't play the ROM, but then again the Everdrive doesn't emulate the SVP.

[derFunkenstein]

OK, I think I've figured it out. I remembered that the Genesis supported a couple of different rendering modes, but couldn't remember the details. This page has it:

 

https://megacatstudios.com/blogs/press/sega-genesis-mega-drive-vdp-graphics-guide-v1-2a-03-14-17

 

Particularly, the supported resolutions. The commentary below is the page's commentary.

 

H40 mode - 320x224 px (40x28 tiles). More common resolution mode
H32 mode - 256x224 px (32x28 tiles). Less common resolution mode

 

And then I found this: The Definitive 256 mode Genesis Games List: http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/Genesis-256-Mode-List.txt

 

Guess what's on there? Street Fighter II SCE. And guess what's not? No Sonic, no Streets of Rage.

 

So my hypothesis is that the system stretches 256x224 games to 320x224 BEFORE it upscales them, instead of after scaling.

 

The problem is there are 180+ games on that list, and it includes a handful of really popular games. Shining Force 1 and 2, Street Fighter 2, Super SF2, Outrun 2019, NHL 94, Virtua Racing (assuming it runs at all), Sunset Riders.

 

Now, on to the good news. The controller is really nice. Yes, the buttons are slightly stiff, but the D-pad is really great. It's not possible to "bottom out" and press every direction at once like you can with cheaper pads. Hyperkin did a great job with that. If only they'd done a great job with the upscaling.

[derFunkenstein]

So I sent Hyperkin a description of what I was seeing through Facebook on Monday night. They got back to me yesterday saying they'd look into it.

 

Weirdly enough, Shining Force doesn't look terrible like I feared. It's wrong, and I know it's wrong, but the specific double-wide pixels kind of worked out as far as the text and tile scrolling go. The worst of it is in when the screen only scrolls slowly. Fast scrolling makes it go by fast enough it doesn't bug me. The text has the double-wide pixels, but it's readable and kind of looks avant, in a weird way.

 

I've attached a picture from the intro. You can see the weird text. The first W in "Wow" is weird and you can see other letters that have a column that's wrong. Compare it on a real console or in any emulator and you'll see it. But it hasn't stopped me from playing the first couple battles.

 

edit: forgot to hit the "Attach This File" button.

Edited November 7, 2018 by derFunkenstein

[MantaNZ]

And now it seems AtGames has silently released a new one:

 

https://gbatemp.net/threads/atgames-sega-flashback-2018-edition-is-out-in-the-wild.522990/

 

Thanks to Madlittlepixel on Youtube for pointing this out:

 

 

Now I'm not a fan of their emulation but this one actually looks like a proper little Mega Drive, not some "styled-like" job. Also has SD card.

Edited November 12, 2018 by MantaNZ

[derFunkenstein]

AtGames does some BS like this all the time. We clamored for better emulation without skipping frames, and an SD slot after the incredibly disappointing 2017 model. Bill Loguidice came on AtariAge this spring/summer and said "oh 2018 will have an SD slot" and we assumed that meant we could load our own ROMs. I don't think AtGames understands WHY we wanted the SD slot.

 

And then there's this post: It overheats, because AtGames, apparently.

https://gbatemp.net/threads/atgames-sega-flashback-2018-edition-is-out-in-the-wild.522990/#post-8373504

 

edit: "The firmware fairy" has a firmware updating coming, which is nice.

https://gbatemp.net/threads/atgames-sega-flashback-2018-edition-is-out-in-the-wild.522990/#post-8374194

 

BTW, Hyperkin has not gotten back to me on the 256x224 mode.

Edited November 12, 2018 by derFunkenstein

[Akito01]

So, have we determined for sure that this does true stereo sound? I already have a Super Retro Trio Plus, which I've been fairly happy with, but if this does have improved sound over previous Genesis clones, that could be a good reason to pick this up.

[derFunkenstein]

So, have we determined for sure that this does true stereo sound? I already have a Super Retro Trio Plus, which I've been fairly happy with, but if this does have improved sound over previous Genesis clones, that could be a good reason to pick this up.

 

Yes. Compared to the SRT I'm not sure that anything beyond stereo audio is an improvement, and in some ways it might be a step back (that 256x224 issue in particular) but it's definitely got stereo audio. Street Fighter sound pans appropriately and rings alternate left and right in Sonic 2.

[derFunkenstein]

Did some A/B comparisons of audio today. Listened to the sound test in some iconic soundtracks: Sonic 2, SoR 2, Street Fighter 2, Revenge of Shinobi (Shinobi 2, right?)...all the S2's except Shining Force 2, I guess. Compared the Mega RetroN HD to the VA2 Genesis I just picked up on Friday.

 

In this case it's a TCL 55P605 4K TV with ARC out to my Sony DH550 auto-calibrated using the included mic with some Yamaha surround speaker / sub combo I got on Amazon a couple years ago. It's a moderate home theater system, not the greatest on earth. The Genesis was connected to the TV's composite and the audio sent via ARC to the receiver, too. So that means analog to digital was performed by the TV. The Mega RetroN HD was plugged directly into the TV's HDMI 2 port and audio sent via ARC to the receiver. Totally digital experience so the ADC was done on the system.

 

Along with the PSG being louder than it should be (which I've mentioned before), there's a much more heavy-handed low-pass filter on the RetroN. To the point that the system sounds kind of muffled. I didn't notice it when it was on the little TV in my home office, but listening to both on the receiver in the living room, it was pretty evident. The RetroN is also louder overall than the Genesis even with the headphone port turned all the way up.

 

The PSG balance issue manifests itself in several ways. Sonic jumping sounds, the bass in the SoR 2 bar scene in level 1, sustained notes in the Street Fighter soundtrack...it's everywhere. The low-pass filter is applied to the whole audio mix.

 

I'm also less of a fan of the controller than I was when I first got it. It's very easy to press a diagonal by accident. Pressing right in Sonic runs and then suddenly you're doing a running spin roll. In Street Fighter you're holding back to block and then you're jumping backwards. I'm using the 6-button controller that came with the Genesis and not having those problems at all.

 

I mean, for $46 you can buy four of these for the price of a Mega Sg plus shipping, and get four controllers to boot. So keeping that in mind, I think it's superior to under-powered ARM emulation boxes just for input latency reasons. That includes both a hacked NES/SNES mini and the 2017 Shield Android TV, both of which I own. It's far superior to the 2017 AtGames Genesis Flashback, and probably better than the 2018 model and the Super Retro Trio (if your TV can't force 4:3). It's just a far cry from the original hardware still, and will almost assuredly lag far behind the much more expensive Mega Sg.

[MantaNZ]

Yes. Compared to the SRT I'm not sure that anything beyond stereo audio is an improvement, and in some ways it might be a step back (that 256x224 issue in particular) but it's definitely got stereo audio. Street Fighter sound pans appropriately and rings alternate left and right in Sonic 2.

 

I saw a YouTube playing on the SRT+ and it had horrible pixel crawl. I’m guessing it’s just a given that cheap clones wont handle upscaling properly This actually put me off buying that system yet none of the so called “reviewers” mention this stuff.

[aliensyndrome]

Gotta say, I'm kinda intrigued by this. I've said before, I'm a fan of the console-on-a-chip approach because they tend to include both A/V and HDMI out options. I liked their Retron HD (even though I got a duff one from an unscrupulous ebay seller that I had to fix right out of the box). It's a curious mix of quality and crap but for the most part, it does the job.

 

If I can get one for close to £45, I'll bite. I can't really justify splashing out on fancy FPGA machines when I have a perfectly good working Mega Drive sitting under a CRT television. But I think these cheaper Hyperkin clones can make decent second machines for taking to a friend's house or for playing on modern displays. Also, it plays Master System games! But as I don't currently own a converter for the Mega Drive, that's an extra £25 to add to the cost, so... It starts to look like less of a steal compared to the Mega SG.

 

I'd like to see how the PAL compatibility holds up, too (the Retron HD was spotty at best with PAL NES games). And I think there's pretty much no chance this thing will play Virtua Racing or Super Street Fighter.

Edited November 14, 2018 by aliensyndrome

[derFunkenstein]

I'd like to see how the PAL compatibility holds up, too (the Retron HD was spotty at best with PAL NES games). And I think there's pretty much no chance this thing will play Virtua Racing or Super Street Fighter.

It plays Super SF2 off the cart. It does not boot my VR cart but that cart doesnt work right in my Genesis either. At least on the real hardware you can hear the intro. On the Hyperkin it just gives a blank screen.

[WD_GASTER]

hi guys, just wanted to clarify a couple of positions here regarding the new flashback:

 

and maybe give some insight.

 

-the new flashback doesnt seem to overheat. it just seems to have an issue with emulation after long periods of idling.

-"the firmware fairy" comments is an educated guess given that A)this thing is literally the same chipset and similar motherboard as the flashback 9 and Arcade flashback legends and B) the pattern by releases that one of the members has done in this forum previously is anything to go by, it will probably happen.

 

-Audio sounds ok to me but quite frankly maybe its a trust issue... something may be off. Hopefully a true genesis audiophile can make the educated call.

 

-ADB on it has been disabled. what this means is... homebrew and community improvement may not be possible on this device. this is a screenshot of the sega flashback hd from the 2017 model once i had finish doing the cfw for it:

 

 

This may not be possible with this years model. However lets see what happens.

 

As for the hyperkin clone, A lot of people do seem to be marking it as decent, but i have yet to buy one.

Edited November 14, 2018 by WD_GASTER

[Krathoon]

Does this have an SD card slot? I wonder if the firmware can be updated.

 

This is like $38 on Amazon. I already bought it.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Krathoon

[derFunkenstein]

Does this have an SD card slot? I wonder if the firmware can be updated.

 

This is like $38 on Amazon. I already bought it.

No SD slot, but it works with Mega Everdrive if you don't have carts.

 

edit: now I'm not sure if you mean the Hyperkin clone or the Flashback. The Flashback might, but the Mega RetroN HD does not.

Edited February 21, 2019 by derFunkenstein

[Krathoon]

What is a good Mega Everdrive cart? Seems expensive.

[Austin]

What is a good Mega Everdrive cart? Seems expensive.

Any of them. I personally have the lowest model (X3). It gets the job done and only runs about $50.

[Krathoon]

Can you save your game with the x3 cart?