derFunkenstein Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 It's too bad they don't make adapters that go the other way, with the Genesis 2 pins and the Genesis 1 socket, and add a headphone input for the Genesis 1 audio. Then you could plug your Genesis 1 SCART cable into the 32x. I think that's the solution. Time to get out the soldering iron and wire strippers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCoolDave Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) It's too bad they don't make adapters that go the other way, with the Genesis 2 pins and the Genesis 1 socket, and add a headphone input for the Genesis 1 audio. Then you could plug your Genesis 1 SCART cable into the 32x. I think that's the solution. Time to get out the soldering iron and wire strippers. It seems that SCART pinouts are common knowledge and what I said is VERY possible. I ordered a Sega Gen 2 cable (for the 32x) to SCART a few days ago. When that comes in, I'll test it (make sure I get good video), pull off the cover to the SCART end. Find the PINS I need, , Clip the analog cables and sodder a set of RCA cables (with about 6 foot cords) to plug right into the back of the RCA cables in the back of the Sega CD... I need to find out more details to see if there is another pin that enables mono or stereo...Not sure about SCART cables as I am new to them Something like this... using just the L/R connections on this diagram.. https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/cables/audio_video/scart-to-rca-and-s-video-adapter/ should be fairly easy to do. It should solve this issue for good and will just need a quick swap when I want to change and play SMS on the Gen... Cool, I like progress Edited December 10, 2018 by TheCoolDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 You don't have to pull the audio from the Sega CD. ALL audio from all add-ons go through the Genesis. For proper line level audio like you are wanting to do into your AV system, you really ought to think about installing separate RCAs on the Genesis. If you don't want to modify the casing, then it would be easiest to run your audio from the 1034 amp chip off pins 1 and 8 with a shared ground and just route that wire through the case somewhere with the RCA jacks attached? That will provide a properly balances SegaCD+32x+plus standard Genesis audio output. Again the headphone jack wasn't originally designed for AV receiver usage and has additional filtering that gets in the way. I mean I know you want this to all be super easy to maintain and I'm with you there. But you are also investing a lot with the cabling and additional hardware to go RGB. Don't you want audio to match? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCoolDave Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) You don't have to pull the audio from the Sega CD. ALL audio from all add-ons go through the Genesis. For proper line level audio like you are wanting to do into your AV system, you really ought to think about installing separate RCAs on the Genesis. If you don't want to modify the casing, then it would be easiest to run your audio from the 1034 amp chip off pins 1 and 8 with a shared ground and just route that wire through the case somewhere with the RCA jacks attached? That will provide a properly balances SegaCD+32x+plus standard Genesis audio output. Again the headphone jack wasn't originally designed for AV receiver usage and has additional filtering that gets in the way. I mean I know you want this to all be super easy to maintain and I'm with you there. But you are also investing a lot with the cabling and additional hardware to go RGB. Don't you want audio to match? I'm a little confused now... The way it's setup... is a mini-pin comes out the front of the Genesis and plugs in the back of the Sega CD. It's the way the wiring is done on it. I looked it up. Even watched videos on YouTube and if you DONT hook up the front audio to the Sega CD, you will lose part of the audio as CD audio goes.. This guy does a test, doing step by step with results starting around the 8:50 or so point on the video (not the best video by any means but, shows the issue) and shows EXACTLY what i am explaining. Model 1 or 2 CD, the audio systems are the same. So, pulling audio directly from the Gen for CD content will not work correctly, It comes out of the CD in line level. Or is there something I am missing here ? Edited December 10, 2018 by TheCoolDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derFunkenstein Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) I mean I know you want this to all be super easy to maintain and I'm with you there. But you are also investing a lot with the cabling and additional hardware to go RGB. Don't you want audio to match? Depending on which model 1 he has, really high-fidelity audio might require an amp install. If he's got a VA7 it's almost mandatory, and if he's got a really early revision like the VA2 I picked up, the distortion might be an issue. And since many model 1 versions have rainbow banding, so it might need the composite subcarrier lifted. It's a friggin rabbit hole. In the last month or so I went from "gee that model 1 with the long FCC ID is cool, I should get it" to "I just received a new soldering station and tips and I'm soldering and de-soldering capacitors on this old boom box as practice until my triple bypass board and recap kit arrive". edit: I forgot there was a Sega CD in this setup, so what Dave posted should be fine. It's in Sega's manual for the CD to wire it that way, and it should just pass through everything from the model 1 Genesis and output line level, right? Edited December 10, 2018 by derFunkenstein 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) I'm a little confused now... The way it's setup... is a mini-pin comes out the front of the Genesis and plugs in the back of the Sega CD. It's the way the wiring is done on it. I looked it up. Even watched videos on YouTube and if you DONT hook up the front audio to the Sega CD, you will lose part of the audio as CD audio goes.. This guy does a test, doing step by step with results starting around the 8:50 or so point on the video (not the best video by any means but, shows the issue) and shows EXACTLY what i am explaining. Model 1 or 2 CD, the audio systems are the same. So, pulling audio directly from the Gen for CD content will not work correctly, It comes out of the CD in line level. Or is there something I am missing here ? Not true... Now granted I have a model 1 SegaCD. But I know for a FACT that I had full CD audio with the RCA jacks I installed coming directly off the 1034 amp chip inside the Genesis. Now, if you don't use the audio line in mix cable and then use the RCAs off the SegaCD then you only get SegaCD audio. Think about it... If you use a Sega32x and have a model 2 unit without the headphone jack, then how the heck would the SegaCD audio on the model2 be heard through the AV out on the model 2 and from the AV out on the 32x? And because the SegaCD units will work with either models Genesis, they are made the same. I'm not sure what that guy in the video is doing, but you will get audio from the Sega CD if you just use the audio from the Genesis itself. Here is an easy way to test it... Put in a SegaCD game or even just an audio CD. And then press play and see if you can hear it from the headphone jack? In fact in his video you still hear the segacd audio bass and drums when he plays the audio from the headphone jack?! Also notice how he is talking over the last and 3rd demo where he claims the missing sounds are now there. They were already there from the headphone jack. The expansion port on the side features audio input lines on it. I know this because when you install a mega amp type bypass board into a Genesis, you remove the caps along the audio circuit. From those spots where the caps were removed, you wire in audio lines that tap audio for the various add-ons. Like the Genesis FM, PSG, 32x, and...SegaCD. But all of them are pulled from the audio circuit directly off the Genesis board. None of the mods require running audio taps from the SegaCD itself separately because again, the Genesis has all the audio lines already in it and being mixed through the 1034. The reason why the mix cable exists in the first place was to make it easier for people to run the audio to their AV recievers without having cables in the front and to allow you to dial in the volume between the genesis and the SegaCD separately. But yes, the audio from the SegaCD is present within the Genesis audio subsystem itself. Edited December 10, 2018 by -^Cro§Bow^- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCoolDave Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 Not true... Now granted I have a model 1 SegaCD. But I know for a FACT that I had full CD audio with the RCA jacks I installed coming directly off the 1034 amp chip inside the Genesis. Now, if you don't use the audio line in mix cable and then use the RCAs off the SegaCD then you only get SegaCD audio. Thank about it... If you use a Sega32x and have a model 2 unit without the headphone jack, then how the heck would the SegaCD audio on the model2 be heard through the AV out on the model 2 and from the AV out on the 32x? And because the SegaCD units will work with either models Genesis, they are made the same. I'm not sure what that guy in the video is doing, but you will get audio from the Sega CD if you just use the audio from the Genesis itself. Here is an easy way to test it... Put in a SegaCD game or even just an audio CD. And then press play and see if you can hear it from the headphone jack? In fact in his video you still hear the segacd audio bass and drums when he plays the audio from the headphone jack?! Also notice how he is talking over the last and 3rd demo where he claims the missing sounds are now there. They were already there from the headphone jack. Not trying to fight or anything so please don't take this the wrong way. He seemed very realistic on the whole thing and he showed cable by cable connected. Maybe it's just his setup but, not sure how that is "not true". Not sure but, there was an issue there. I don't know all the versions 100% but, my console is a VERY early one with the "High Def Graphics" on the top of it... I'll check the audio when I get home (if I get the time tonight) by disconnecting the "mixing" cable and try it. I also run into another problem here. Priority. You know how complex my setup is going to be with 20 consoles in one cabinet, you have one of my machines, there are about 4-5 more that need to mod never mind the other things on this project. Sooner I can put a ready/done stamp on this system, I can move on to the NEXT issue. The current audio is not bad at all and if it gets RGB, it might be something I might hold off to later, once everything is working and I want to "upgrade" devices, if it will make a noticeable difference. I just need it all working with a fairly easy process... I WANT to play the phantasy star re-translation really bad but, I needs a done stamp on this system before I can even play it. My Everdrive is only for the Genesis, not the Master system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) http://www.firebrandx.com/m1minimega-installguide.html that is the installation guide for the new megaamp bypass for the earlier model 1 Genesis systems. I have two on order so I can install one to test and the other for a genesis that is waiting to be fully modded. You can see that the caps removed where we tap the audio from clearly has audio taps for the SegaCD left and right audio. Again there are connection points off the side expansion port for both audio input and audio output from the SegaCD. So the audio is all there and present within the Genesis itself from all add-ons.. I don't have any audio cables coming off my segaCD and only have the power cable on it. I have full audio on my setup with just audio out from the RCA jacks I installed onto the back of my Genesis. And mine is also a va2 model 1. Those are the original US released Genesis launch models. This wasn't changed during the model 1 lifespan. It isn't an argument...it is a fact. Edited December 10, 2018 by -^Cro§Bow^- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCoolDave Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 (edited) So, if anyone here is wondering what I did on this dilemma… Here is what I ended up doing. I picked up a cable from Insurrection Industries using CSYNC and I got a great picture. So I tried it on my 32X (connected to my Sega CD and Gen 1 system), and I got sound and a epic picture... I tried a CD, I got sound and a great picture. I pulled off the 32X and plugged a cart into the Genesis, I got sound but,.no video. So I took the video out of the 32x and with an adapter, I put it in the Genesis I got a picture but, no audio. WTF... Ok.. so I stepped back... Took just the Analog video cables... Put Audio jacks to the back of the Sega CD (has RCA type L/R out). then I connected analog video the 32x(not using the audio from the analog cable)... I got video and I got sound (from CD), I used the same cable with the adapter, connected to the Genesis again with audio coming out of the CD..I got picture and audio(even with the Power base converter). same with the CD. So the CD has audio going out for all 3 types... 32x, Sega Genesis and Sega CD. So I found the diagram for a SCART cable.... Clipped a 6 foot mini pin from a old Headphone ext cable. … found a SCART diagram... Clipped pins 2 4 and 6... (2=Right audio in, 4=Audio ground, 6=Left audio in). I soldered on the headphone cable to the correct pins and put it all back together and the old connections I shortened them and put a small piece of electoral tape so they could not short out anything. I did have a mini pin to RCA L/R adapter that I used with it. Tested.... using the Sega 2 type output putting the L/R audio, all 4 sources work fine with audio, I cranked the audio out, no feedback or noise. I am able to play 32x all the way to master system games with RGB video and full stereo sound (of course the limitations of the master system). The ONLY think I need to do, is pull the 32x off, pull the video out and pop it into the Genesis to play SMS or anything else I don't want to run through the 32x. Nice solution and it only took me about 15 min to do (10 of it was setting everything up)…. I can finally mark this system complete, ready to setup in my spreadsheet of systems for my big cabinet of 20 systems that I planning to set up... Edited December 28, 2018 by TheCoolDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap! Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) Would some sort of mod be theoretically possible to allow SMS games to work when the 32x is plugged in? Right now SMS games don't even work when used with my Mega Everdrive X7 plugged into my 32x. Edited August 27, 2022 by Zap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-S Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Not at all, the 32X disables it for some reason, but I know Krikkz is making a new 32X clone that is going to support it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap! Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, M-S said: Not at all, the 32X disables it for some reason, but I know Krikkz is making a new 32X clone that is going to support it. That's awesome, I'll be first in line to order this. Any idea when it might be available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-S Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 I don't know, Krikkz is also working on other projects now, what he said was that it's not going to require extra wires connecting the unit and the Mega Drive, but what I can almost be sure is that it's going to be expensive if he uses FPGA technology instead of the more recent implementations of the SH-2 chip, he also is having problems obtaining the components necessary for his flash carts, so I think it's far to say it's probably going to release only next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Willy Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 I'd guess that KRIKzz is looking at the 32X support in MiSTer, which uses an FPGA to emulate a bunch of difference consoles/arcades. If the FPGA in the MED Pro is big enough, it should be able to handle this. However, I don't see how you can get around the need for cables like the 32X... unless... perhaps instead of new code for the existing MED Pro, he is instead making an FPGA based Neptune. Now THAT would be hella-cool! 😎 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-S Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 If the Mega Everdive Pro was enough to play 32X he wouldn't be doing this, what he's making is in fact a 32X that can play all 32X cartridges and can be used in conjunction with a flash cart and it's not a Neptune. If he's using an FPGA then we can be almost sure it's going to cost quite a lot, honestly I would be more interested in something that used a real chip but it's is good enough if he makes something that is smaller and compatible with most Mega Drive models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap! Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 The 32x has all sorts of compatibility problems. Another one that's not mentioned that much is that you can't even do an in-game menu (Start + Down on the Mega Everdrive X7) with the 32x plugged in. Can this be fixed with a firmware update, or is it impossible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozone212 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 On 12/7/2018 at 7:48 PM, derFunkenstein said: I don't think that'll work, either. Master System games don't even work off an Everdrive while the 32X is connected. Here's what I get when I try to start a game (in this case, US release of Sonic the Hedgehog) while my 32X is connected. Maybe it's caused by the Everdrive (an X5 in my case) but I think it's the 32X BIOS saying no. I think I'd just buy another Genesis just for Master System games. Just had a thought. Would it be possible to mod a passthrough? The 32X isn't that wide but it could be expanded. If it can fit 32X carts, it can be expanded and modded to play SMS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitanClassic Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 @Frozone212, I don’t think so. Quote The reason is that the PBC sends a command to the Genesis' Z80 sound processor telling it to boot into SMS compatability mode - like how inserting a MS-DOS boot disk into a floppy drive will make some (most?) computers boot into MS-DOS mode when you start the machine. If that command is send to the 32X, which has a different sound processor, and wasn't designed with backwards compatability in mind, the process won't work.Bottom line: You cannot run SMS games on a Genesis or Mega Drive if the 32X unit is attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozone212 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 1 minute ago, CapitanClassic said: @Frozone212, I don’t think so. well, crap. there goes my suggestion. FWIW, I tried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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