Super XE Game Machine

[+mytek]

Better still would be to use the upcoming 1088XLD as your base. It was designed to be VBXE and Rapidus friendly from the get go .

[Gunstar]

Well, to me it doesn't get any better than that. A combination CPU & graphic upgrade path, using an industry standard upgrade chip in the 65816 that some of the competition did use in their 8-bit line advancements, and a much better graphics board than anything back then, 8 or 16-bit. In homage to Atari graphic hardware. Using either legacy hardware or your choice of two modern implementations as your base, you get everything you dreamed of from a Super XE, and graphics better than the original Amiga or ST, speed faster than the original Amiga or ST, and it beats the Apple IIGS and Commodore 65, Master System, NES, 7800, SNES and Genesis in speed and graphic power. And we have this ability now, ready to be upgraded or built. We just need software development from these home-brew programmer's who would have loved having a Super XE today, to program, even if it was a failure yesteryear. Because something even better is here, NOW. All are 8-bit Atari line dreams come true in the Rapidus and VBXE combo.

 

To me, it's not even like I'm insulting or abandoning my true Atari 8-bit roots and hardware by accepting upgrades like the VBXE and Rapidus into the Atari 8-bit line fold. I'll still have at least one or more original Atari's, from stock to various usual memory and OS upgrades that I will always use and cherish. This is accepting a new Atari into the fold to me, like the Super XE that we would have gotten in a perfect parallel universe where the 8-bit line succeeded like the Apple II, and was continued with new versions into the late 80's and early 90's. I'm just finally able to get the next evolution of my Atari 8-bit that was abandoned by Atari back then in favor of 16/32/64-bit systems under the Motorola, instead of MOS, banner...

 

I've been wanting to do a similar upgrade path since the 90's when I first read about 65816 upgrade boards, in late era magazines like Atari Classics and Current Notes. but where made in such small quantities I never had a chance to find them. And today there's much better support, as meager as it is, for even the VBXE and Rapidus than those early third-party upgrades got so late in the 8-bit's life. It's the same reason I've already done so many upgrades to my Atari 8-bit even with memory upgrades and expanded OS choices, and modern I/O devices, stereo sound, etc., I've been continuing my Atari 8-bit line advancement independent of Atari and Jay Miner, and home brew programmers have been utilizing the upgrades so they have support. The VBXE and Rapidus should be considered no different, IMHO. It's all up to us as a community now, so if the community and developers accept it as a standard upgrade path and support it, I don't see what the issue is, I'm still enjoying my Atari 8-bit legacy and the real thing is still there mostly, just hidden under some new boards.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Gunstar

[+DrVenkman]

Extracted the images and made a new PDF without the watermarks.

Curt went through the effort - over a period of decades, mind you - to gather this stuff from the literal trash heap, try to organize and go through it and present the stuff worth preserving. Do you think it’s reall fair to remove the watermarks in exhange for what’s literally been his life’s work?

[+Nezgar]

Curt went through the effort - over a period of decades, mind you - to gather this stuff from the literal trash heap, try to organize and go through it and present the stuff worth preserving. Do you think it’s reall fair to remove the watermarks in exhange for what’s literally been his life’s work?

 

Point taken. I don't want to discourage him from sharing more. I've removed the attachment.

[Rybags]

Interesting stuff. 2^12 colours means 4 bits per channel making 4096 like the early Amigas.

 

Seperate border colour register.

 

Lots of objects... would need to do some calculations to see if all that fits within the memory bandwidth. Maybe 16-bit accesses going on?

Interesting that the accelerated speeds aren't direct multiples of 1.79 MHz - maybe the enhanced mode is based on a similar clock speed to the ST.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Rybags

[Curt Vendel]

 

Steve Jobs purposely hobbled the IIgs so it didn't overshadow the Mac. The IIgs was in color and had some great sound, he did not want it to be faster than the Mac Plus.

The IIGS in many area's was actually a better machine than the Mac. Job's was ousted when the IIGS came out, but I'm sure the Mac marketing people were strongly insistent that the IIGS not be fully utilized...

 

It could've ran at the full Mhz speed, not the speed they set it at and since it had 2 modes - a MEGA II mode which was the A2 on a chip and would run at its speed and in GS mode there is no reason it couldn't have run full throttle.

 

It had color when the Mac Plus was still B&W and the graphics were quite capable, it had great audio which the Mac just had beeps, it had slots which the Mac didn't and it could go up to whopping (for its time) 8MB memory while the Mac could not.

 

The IIGS really could've been a toe to toe Mac contender.

 

Regarding Ricoh -

 

Its either mentioned in this doc or another I have that Atari purposefully was working with Ricoh specifically because they were already doing work on this processor type for Nintendo so they had the experience and it would make sense that Atari would want to work with them. The document and the meetings and a few minor follow up documents afterwards are as far as the Super XE got, but Atari was seriously looking at a lot of different avenues, it was like suddenly they just decided to do Panther out of the blue, this appears to be a lot of discussions and engineering idea's leading up to Panther and then eventually Jaguar.

[Curt Vendel]

Better still would be to use the upcoming 1088XLD as your base. It was designed to be VBXE and Rapidus friendly from the get go .

Yes a 65816 enhanced 1088XL is definitely a good route to pursue...

 

I will be putting together everything I have on KERI once I ship the XM's in just 2 months, will be good to see if we can do an Atari version of Apple's "MEGA II" chip that they used in their GS and look to put a KERI on FPGA into a version of the 1088XL and put a 65816 onto it and see if we could implement our own similar design to the IIGS

[Kyle22]

I cannot open the pdf. It gets to 96% in IE and states it was interrupted.

 

Edge just hangs at the same spot.

It works fine in Firefox on WinXP32.

[Gunstar]

Yes a 65816 enhanced 1088XL is definitely a good route to pursue...

 

I will be putting together everything I have on KERI once I ship the XM's in just 2 months, will be good to see if we can do an Atari version of Apple's "MEGA II" chip that they used in their GS and look to put a KERI on FPGA into a version of the 1088XL and put a 65816 onto it and see if we could implement our own similar design to the IIGS

Why settle for "Mega II" and KERI when we already have a much more powerful upgrade in the VBXE? Just supporting the Rapidus and VBXE is all that needs to be done here, and we have an Apple IIGS killer already. Another graphic board would just cause more division in an already small and under supported Atari upgrade community. We end up making the same mistakes that Atari themselves made by having to many ideas and projects at once and no focus. Or support to see it through.

 

The VBXE is done and has been with us for over a decade, it just needs more software development. Same with the Rapidus and both as a combo. Maybe the two need to be made into one board and reduce costs for seller and consumer? And make it easier to upgrade than the two separately?

 

It just makes no sense to me to dream of upgrades that match what was put on paper 30 years ago when better than that dream already exists and is readily available for XE's, XL's and new platforms like the 1088 line. On second thought that wouldn't work with all the different motherboard designs they have to go into, including the new 1088's, but then the same would be true starting with a new board for KERI and "MEGA II" like mode.

 

I could understand such a desire if the Super XE was Jay Miner's child, with his continued vision for the line, I'd be in full support in that case too. But since it's totally different engineers with their own ideas of an upgrade path, it's no different to me than the engineers that designed the VBXE and Rapidus and I'm perfectly happy with them being the final answer to a "Super XE/800XEGS" computer/system.

 

One thing I would support as an upgrade board from the ashes of proposed Super XE design would be the audio upgrade, assuming that it would be more advanced and flexible than the long-standing and support dual POKEY stereo that we already have with it's 8/16-bit capabilities. Otherwise, or in lieu of anything else, I'm happy with the dual POKEY upgrade myself. We already have all the upgrade goods we need to a "Super XE/800XEGS, Apple IIGS killer IMHO though.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Gunstar

[+Stephen]

Thank you, thank you, thank you Gunstar.

 

We don't need any new upgrades. We need to get together and figure out how to leverage what we already have. Everybody wants to number-wang about wat new stuff can be done, while completely ignoring what we have had for a decade and not used.

 

Also, I am 110% sick to death of hearing shit like "VBXE is not Atari", while 65816, 4MB RAM, etc. are. Damn it - enough already. I don't get this fragmented logic.

[Gunstar]

I can understand people who just aren't interested, and like their Atari's as they are or maybe with just a few tweaks like memory and stereo sound, that have no interest in a 16-bit graphic power-house Atari compatible with the 8-bit line and would just as soon go with a 16-bit computer that already exists to sit next to the 8-bit Atari or whatever, if they want something 16-bit too in the first place. That's all well and good, there are plenty of Apple II fans that don't give a damn about the IIGS or would just as soon use a Mac too, I'm sure. The part I don't get is accepting an upgrade to 16-bit CPU but not want a graphic improvement upgrade too, or that aren't interested because it doesn't at least smell of something Atari might have done but didn't, that was only ever an idea on paper anyway, done by people as foreign and alien too Jay Miner's 800 and the original Atari Inc. with Bushnell as anyone doing upgrades for it today is today, but they'll accept that vaporware as the next step in the 8-bit's evolution but won't accept something much, much, better that already exists in reality, just because the designer's weren't Atari employees that changed with the wind anyway.

 

That's one reason why I was so excited about Dropcheck's 1090XLR expansion that I went through all the hassle of upgrading my 1200XL with a PBI. I figured it is an external peripheral which people seem to accept more as a legit upgrade, it's actually a device that made it to prototypes at Atari, so it's got the Atari history, and then any cards made for it (like VBXE and Rapidus on cards) would have been accepted by all without a second thought because it made for the Atari inspired 1090XLR which works through the official Atari PBI port, etc. and yadda, yadda, yadda. But since they are internal upgrades that have to be self-installed beyond plugging in a "cartridge" and are just "unofficial hacks" because adjustments have to be made to the motherboard, you get some fans and developers with something stuck up their rear-side, maybe their head, that refuse to accept them. The only real difference is one way is main-stream user friendly plug-and-play and the other way takes skills to install.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Gunstar

[+davidcalgary29]

Thank you, thank you, thank you Gunstar.

 

We don't need any new upgrades. We need to get together and figure out how to leverage what we already have. Everybody wants to number-wang about wat new stuff can be done, while completely ignoring what we have had for a decade and not used.

 

Also, I am 110% sick to death of hearing shit like "VBXE is not Atari", while 65816, 4MB RAM, etc. are. Damn it - enough already. I don't get this fragmented logic.

Some (and I emphasize: SOME) of the VBXE kerfuffle may well be from people who haven’t yet tried it. I love mine, and just wish there were more programs out there that worked with NTSC machines. VBXE definitely needs a promotional campaign (and a manual).

[AtariNerd]

I think discpveries, such as these, serve as a sort of validation and give a sort of permission to explore ideas, because they give an insight into possible intentions and plans.

 

Before now, there was no known route that Atari seemed to be taking in terns of their 8-bit line, in terms of A/V, beyond its initial offering and a few accessory add-ons. While other systems of the era, namely the PC and, yes, the Apple II, got upgrades, and other systems with better specs came out, following a natural progression. Atari was stuck in 78-80 land; although it could be argued, that for the time, for the price, it was a mark above what others had to offer. Warner seemed cautious in developing the Atari computer systems further, instead focusing on the 2600 as there cash cow and Jay and much of the other pioneering talent left, seeking better shores, but not before proposing a newer system, based on the 68000, which with further development, elsewhere, became what we all know.

 

System adherents, have long speculated what might have been, what Atari might have logically done to answer the call. One answer, from as an official inside source as any, the same one who helped develop the ST, seems to be to shoot for the rafters, again, pushing what was thought possible for the day. So, the question of what a hypothetical Atari 8-bit could be, has had its potential goal-posts shifted, into the realm of the early 16-bits, somewhere in the field of what an ST or the Amiga could do, within limitations. Early Arcade games, CGA games from the PC realm, done in 320 mode and 16 colors - no problem, some games from the ST and Amiga - definitely, maybe, 640 mode, 80-column text mode for office and productivity- work - no problem. Basically, what potentially have been a viable system for much of the 8-bits life run - pow, done (though a bit too late to have much effect in the day and honestly, pretty much done posthumously ) Extrapolating, from that, maybe a 160 pixel, 256 color mode, as a compromise, that might have extended it beyond for a bit, mainly hobbiests - possible? And a goodly number of Sprites . Honestly, those specs are well-beyond what I might have expected Atari to put out then and were probably doomed from the start, due to the price-wars. 160 pixel, 16 and 320, 4-color direct-color modes, would be what I would have considered pretty adequate and within what a stock 6502 might reasonably push.

 

If the card bus expansion system had come out, something like the VBXE, might have naturally developed, after an arbitrary standard was decided on. It hasn't been too heavily developed for, however, partly because of these lingering doubts, often with deliberately-modest, with mild additions, to keep things within the realms of possibility and feasibility and what the stock processor could push, especially within a game environment. The high-color modes are mainly used for still images or are used with interpreted code done for demos, with a mix of lower-color modes and spot effects, color tables, used for games. Great stuff. Disk access times, legacy media and the system bus provide a built-in check on ambition, to some extent. Enter the 65816 and what the may allow. Perhaps, the documents proposed specs, could be used as a base guideline for some potential development on the VBXE, catered with them in mind. You have permission, it's (un)officially within spec, after all. Anything above that is your own prerogative. And, If further or alternative hardware developments do occur, based on these or new proposals, and I'm personally looking forward to the possibilities, it then wouldn't be too difficult to port apps or games, over, to work on the new hardware. Nice thing is that software, like Altira, already give an environment that that experimentation can occur.

[Lynxpro]

Along with some of the main chips used in the 2600 and A8, Curt did manage to salvage some data tape-outs of a few experimental chips, that were worked on internally, but haven't physically materialized. including a combined ANTIC/GTIA (Keri) and the Silver and Gold chips, which were meant for the Sierra project, an early version of what later manifested as the Amiga. Wouldn't surprise me if Atari were pulling from previous research, rather than footing the bill to hire a designer and doing it all from scratch.

 

Would be nice to have the Keri and other main chips in smaller packages, at least, as Curt has queried doing. That could be somewhat expensive and modern processes are different, but older fabs exist, at lower densities, that might be willing to do the work for significantly less. Actually, I wonder, at those densities and with modern materials/equipment, how far that would be out of the clever hobbyist level. Still might take 10s-100ks of moola, but eh, do a chip like a Quad POKEY and people might be willing to invest.

 

 

QUAD POKEY! The arcade folks certainly need them and that chip is long overdue in being connected to A8s, 5200s, and 7800s...

 

Atari Inc should've at least slapped a Dual POKEY into the XL line back in the day. Granted, Commodore ruined everything with their price war.

[Lynxpro]

Along with some of the main chips used in the 2600 and A8, Curt did manage to salvage some data tape-outs of a few experimental chips, that were worked on internally, but haven't physically materialized. including a combined ANTIC/GTIA (Keri) and the Silver and Gold chips, which were meant for the Sierra project, an early version of what later manifested as the Amiga. Wouldn't surprise me if Atari were pulling from previous research, rather than footing the bill to hire a designer and doing it all from scratch.

 

Would be nice to have the Keri and other main chips in smaller packages, at least, as Curt has queried doing. That could be somewhat expensive and modern processes are different, but older fabs exist, at lower densities, that might be willing to do the work for significantly less. Actually, I wonder, at those densities and with modern materials/equipment, how far that would be out of the clever hobbyist level. Still might take 10s-100ks of moola, but eh, do a chip like a Quad POKEY and people might be willing to invest.

 

The Silver and Gold chips are definitely of interest but they wouldn't have been used in an A8. From what I gather, the Amiga's graphics chip was more powerful than RAINBOW was but Curt can comment on that authoritatively. My question would be whether RAINBOW was less powerful than Atari Corp's/Shiraz's SHIFTER which ended up in the ST.

 

Leonard Tramiel has expressed a lot of disappointment [on Facebook] in how the AMY turned out, bogged down in that legal case with Sight+Sound apparently trying to steal/creatively acquire it.

[Gunstar]

Starting with the Bushnell era with a card oriented 800, the tradition of Atari's, and Atari users, even if not always supported by mother Atari, has been the Atari 8-bit, in Miner's and Bushnell's original vision was as an upgradeable computer line. In this tradition, I believe any upgrade is acceptable and it remains a true Atari as long as it is still compatible with the original line. I don't care where the upgrades come from or how end-user friendly they are to install, the nature of the Atari 8-bit is to grow. It's a tradition that was continued by third party support and Atari DIY hackers with internal and external upgrades regardless of what Atari's management at the time did.

 

The only issue and reason not too is the question of support from developers and the community. And they must go hand-in-hand, but, the developers, whether those that made the hardware, or others, must take the first step and take the chance in supporting it, to give the user a reason to want the upgrade. But the software developers of the community must jump on the bandwagon first, with full-fledged software support and not just a few enhancements to some games if a VBXE is detected, but software made for the VBXE and VBXE only, using it to it's full potential. And arcade quality games aren't good enough when those games are from the early 80's with primitive graphics far below the VBXE's potential. I won't mention titles, there are so few we all know what I'm referring too. And of course support for the VBXE&Rapidus combo, so we truly have machines that are Atari "800GS" machines in the same vein as the Apple IIGS. The VBXE alone isn't the full next-gen machine without the Rapidus too. The combination is where the real power and potential lays. Maybe selling them as a pair at a slightly reduced price would help to get more people to buy both instead of just one or the other too. They really do need to be supported as a pair.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Gunstar

[Curt Vendel]

Thank you, thank you, thank you Gunstar.

 

We don't need any new upgrades. We need to get together and figure out how to leverage what we already have. Everybody wants to number-wang about wat new stuff can be done, while completely ignoring what we have had for a decade and not used.

 

Also, I am 110% sick to death of hearing shit like "VBXE is not Atari", while 65816, 4MB RAM, etc. are. Damn it - enough already. I don't get this fragmented logic.

Why wouldn't VBXE not be Atari, its essentially a step up for the GTIA...

 

What would help is for people to stop obsessing with making Demo's for it and actually work on making wordprocessors, BBS's, GUI's, Web Browsers and Desktop Publishing that would take advantage of the higher resolution modes and put it to some practical uses.

 

Until there are things that people can use it with day to day you're never going to see the community coalesce around it and make it the standard. Making demo's is cute for a minute or two, then people go back, go to use their machines and then back to 40 column low res video again.

 

Lastly - VGA should be the standard output for all of these video devices at the very least. TV's are dead and its time to start using something that is a step up from composite and svideo signal. Finding cheap VGA displays is also easier than tracking down an old ST monitor as well thats RGB, they are becoming more and more scarce as time goes by.

[flashjazzcat]

What would help is for people to stop obsessing with making Demo's for it and actually work on making wordprocessors, BBS's, GUI's, Web Browsers and Desktop Publishing that would take advantage of the higher resolution modes and put it to some practical uses.

 

Well, I did make a version of The Last Word which drives the display using the VBXE's hardware 80 column mode. The fact it's not common knowledge that it exists suggests several possibilities:

• Few people actually use their A8 for word processing or text editing duties
• Of those who do, only a small percentage probably possess a machine with VBXE
• Some users may prefer an older word processor which has no hope of ever working with VBXE's 80 column mode
• Users may be happy enough with the software driven 4-bit 80 column display which works on standard hardware
• The existence of productivity software which supports VBXE's hardware 80 column mode may not in itself persuade potential users to invest in the required hardware

Not that TLW is the only thing on earth which works with the hardware 80 column mode. SDX users have the S_VBXE.SYS driver which allows most programs which render their display entirely via the CIO to run in 80 columns (and the same driver can be leveraged to install with other disk operating systems).

 

But why isn't there a plethora of software which takes full advantage of the powerful hardware? Probably the same reason ST game developers didn't spend much time taking advantage of the STE's enhanced capabilities. Perhaps no-one minds making small adjustments to their existing software or writing a driver to capitalise on a device owned by a single-figure percentage of the user base, but I suspect one will grow old waiting for a reasonably complete library of productivity applications specifically written with upgrades like VBXE and Rapidus in mind. Even writing a graphical OS which runs on stock hardware and uses relatively simple 1bpp graphics takes years of effort for flawed mortals like myself. Nevertheless, in my GUI, I completely abstracted the display hardware in order to offer support for VBXE in the future, but these things all take a long time to develop unless one is being paid a living wage to write 8-bit software full-time (and even if that condition were satisfied, it would still be a considerable undertaking).

 

This is the whole problem with Big Ideas about accelerated and graphically enhanced machines, I think. I happened to acquire several VBXEs for little or no cost and I'm happy to use them as little more than RGB adapters for the most part. I doubt most people who have to pay full price for the hardware (and possibly an additional cost for installation) would feel quite as blase about it. Likewise with Rapidus: a 20MHz 65C816 accelerator board will run existing software faster, speed up IDE HDD transfers with the right drivers, and allow use of interesting native mode operating systems, but buyers hoping to find a 16-bit word processor which makes use of 14MB of linear RAM are likely to be disappointed.

 

It was written elsewhere on the forum only a few days ago that hardware is quite useless without good software, and that's definitely the case. Even the firmware (if well executed) which runs the upgrade in question usually requires a considerable amount of time and effort to produce. And that's before any application or game developers have somehow been coaxed into ploughing huge amounts of time into writing software for it.

Edited January 28, 2019 by flashjazzcat

[Gunstar]

Any software development for the VBXE & Rapidus has to be entered into with the mindset that you are programming it becuase you like to program and want to see what you can accomplish with the new hardware and not worry about how many end users will ever use that software. I'm learning to program myself now, on the vintage hardware and that may expand into Rapidus and VBXE in the future, but I'm doing it only for myself and my desire to learn to program and any progams I eventually write are for that purpose and that purpose alone. It would be nice if others use them and like them, but it's the least of my concern. It has to be gone into for the challenge and the pure sake of doing it for fun or a hobby. Deciding not to do something in this day, because you don't think there would be a large enough audience/user base to take advantage of it, to me, is the entirely wrong reason to do or not do something when dealing with free home-brew development. This should be the same with any hardware made too.

 

Hopefully the development will trigger more interest on both sides, but I do agree with FJC that new productivity software isn't going to be that trigger, it will have to be games or maybe an Internet browser that can use all the speed, memory and graphics of the VBXE & Rapidus might peek interest too...to go along with that GUI...

 

When I finally get a VBXE, it won't be for TLW or FJC's GUI, I am perfectly happy with software 80 column or even 64 column for programming and productivity. Of course I will use the VBXE's 80 columns and TLW and everything else once I have it, but I'm happy without it, and I am happy with using the legacy productivity software, unless I already have a VBXE and some new productivity software utilizing GFC's GUI comes along, then I will migrate to that, again, once I already have the VBXE. But I'd be happy with the GUI on non-VBXE & Rapidus hardware too, again, not the reason I'd get a VBXE. For me, it is all about the graphics. For my art, and for gaming, those are the things that would attract me to getting a VBXE sooner; if there are some good games that utilize it and if there was one decent graphic arts package (preferably under the GUI, but not necesary) that utilizes the VGXE's graphic modes. I may end up having to write my own graphic art program for it in the end.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Gunstar

[flashjazzcat]

Any software development for the VBXE & Rapidus has to be entered into with the mindset that you are programming it becuase you like to program and want to see what you can accomplish with the new hardware and not worry about how many end users will ever use that software.

That pretty much goes without saying, since unless one is participating in a popularity contest or attempting to make a meaningful income from programming Ataris (LOL), there's little motivation to do anything with 8-bit computers other than pure enjoyment and the challenge of accomplishing new things (although it's possible to do what I've done and get involved in or be a catalyst for ongoing projects which require regular attention whether one feels like it or not). The trouble is, pottering about with stuff in this fashion doesn't always result in much being accomplished very quickly, and it's very easy for those who have never written - for example - a full-blown word processor to underestimate the amount of time and effort required to develop software, especially for hardware which deviates from the norm.

 

Another thing (and I'm quite sure that this will be true for a lot of other coders too) is that writing software for a 1.7MHz 6502 and ANTIC/GTIA could quite happily occupy my spare time for the rest of my life, since much remains unfinished and I have even more ideas I'd like to explore. I guess there are those out there who find the stock or modestly enhanced hardware (i.e. extra RAM, etc) too restrictive and want to skip it entirely and focus on the 65C816, VBXE, etc.

 

Motivations aside, I'm not yet convinced that anything will trigger the mass uptake of new hardware for which no software exists (unless the hardware is really cheap), nor concerted development of new software for hardware which very few people own.

Edited January 28, 2019 by flashjazzcat

[kimchipenguin]

At the Toronto Pet Users Group show last December, I met with a few Commodore groupies who stated a solid and confirmed number of fifty C65 units sold/given away in the Toronto region. There were also units in various states of assembly that also made it out, so I’m suggesting 100 out of Canada, and certainly some may have been leaked in Europe, so 200 is certainly possible. I’ve only ever seen North American units up for sale (twice in fifteen years) though. The TPUG group seems like the best place to source one today, though the price would be north of 5K.

 

The TPUG members I talked with also said some local users have coded programs to use the C65’s native modes. All utilities, and no games from what I could tell.

 

At least more than a couple of units were shipped to Germany, because there was an actual advert in German 64'er magazine announcing that prototype units could be bought. Maybe they were shipped from the U.S.? 64'er reviewed the C65 in their 3/94 issue and gave away a unit to celebrate the magazine's ten year anniversary. The import price was 598 DM + shipment. McWill (who does the Lynx and Game Gear display replacements) owns a C65 motherboard with the CPU and VIC-III missing.

[_The Doctor__]

getting tired of every Atari XE XL and related system and it's enhancement becoming a discussion about commodore stuff, there is a whole section for those machines. When I need or want a commodore answer, thing, question, or theory... I click on that link and enjoy that forum...

[+davidcalgary29]

Starting with the Bushnell era with a card oriented 800, the tradition of Atari's, and Atari users, even if not always supported by mother Atari, has been the Atari 8-bit, in Miner's and Bushnell's original vision was as an upgradeable computer line. In this tradition, I believe any upgrade is acceptable and it remains a true Atari as long as it is still compatible with the original line. I don't care where the upgrades come from or how end-user friendly they are to install, the nature of the Atari 8-bit is to grow. It's a tradition that was continued by third party support and Atari DIY hackers with internal and external upgrades regardless of what Atari's management at the time did.

 

The only issue and reason not too is the question of support from developers and the community. And they must go hand-in-hand, but, the developers, whether those that made the hardware, or others, must take the first step and take the chance in supporting it, to give the user a reason to want the upgrade. But the software developers of the community must jump on the bandwagon first, with full-fledged software support and not just a few enhancements to some games if a VBXE is detected, but software made for the VBXE and VBXE only, using it to it's full potential. And arcade quality games aren't good enough when those games are from the early 80's with primitive graphics far below the VBXE's potential. I won't mention titles, there are so few we all know what I'm referring too. And of course support for the VBXE&Rapidus combo, so we truly have machines that are Atari "800GS" machines in the same vein as the Apple IIGS. The VBXE alone isn't the full next-gen machine without the Rapidus too. The combination is where the real power and potential lays. Maybe selling them as a pair at a slightly reduced price would help to get more people to buy both instead of just one or the other too. They really do need to be supported as a pair.

 

It would probably help quite a few people to have a pinned thread on hardware mods that summarize what they are and what they can do, ie. 'what is Rapidus and why would I want it? What programs take advantage of VBXE?'

 

getting tired of every Atari XE XL and related system and it's enhancement becoming a discussion about commodore stuff, there is a whole section for those machines. When I need or want a commodore answer, thing, question, or theory... I click on that link and enjoy that forum...

Party pooper.

[Heaven/TQA]

Ok. Me one of the muppets writing demos for VBxE...

 

Yes... I dare to say that a 65816 or lynx like 4mhz 6502c needs to drive the vbxe.... (one reason why the Lynx got speed update maybe to drive the custom chips?).

 

The data needs to be shifted, more content more data to move to vbxe etc.

 

Just to give you an idea. We are talking about 320x240x256 >64kb data. For 1 picture alone. Now consider sprite data etc.... if you pack that say with lz4 or exomizer still a lot to depack not to mention loading.

 

So I would be interested as well as vbxe plus scart and vga putnput plus 80 collums spartados Software list

 

As fas as I remember I only know Johns word processor but what about others? Syncalc, mac/65 or turbo basic etc?

[flashjazzcat]

Just to give you an idea. We are talking about 320x240x256 >64kb data. For 1 picture alone. Now consider sprite data etc.... if you pack that say with lz4 or exomizer still a lot to depack not to mention loading.

With any of the popular IDE mass storage devices available today, you can get ~60KB of data per second into RAM from disk (file system and ANTIC DMA overhead included). So, on paper at least, you can fill the entire 512KB of VBXE VRAM in eight seconds flat. Of course you have the blitter to help once the data is actually in VRAM.

 

And if you eschew the IDE mass storage solutions, you're limited to divisor 0 SIO anyway.

 

As fas as I remember I only know Johns word processor but what about others? Syncalc, mac/65 or turbo basic etc?

As written above: any application which drives the display through the CIO has a good chance of working with S_VBXE.SYS (which does not even require SDX). This includes BASIC, Turbo BASIC, MAC/65, MAE, FastBASIC, etc. But the vast majority of screen-oriented text editors (mine included: it uses a proprietary driver to access VBXE's 80 column mode) write directly to an ANTIC mode 2 display buffer and make hard-coded assumptions about the screen geometry. Many (like Action!) have screen writes scattered throughout the code, making even patching extremely difficult.