empsolo Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Atari Lynx ready in 1987 sniffed the whole "Super XE Console" project drawn on a handkerchief. Suzy (16-bit custom CMOS chip running at 16 MHz) Unlimited number of blitter "sprites" with collision detection Hardware sprite scaling, distortion, and tilting effects Hardware decoding of compressed sprite data Hardware clipping and multi-directional scrolling Math engine Hardware 16-bit × 16-bit › 32-bit multiply with optional accumulation; 32-bit ÷ 16-bit › 16-bit divide Parallel processing of CPU Which was strangled, beheaded, and cremated by the Gameboy before it even left the crib. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) lol orignal gameboy, a real piece of crap, just because people are stupid, doesn't mean it's better. The problem I saw with the Lynx was marketing wanted it BIG to justify the cost, It could easily 'been made to fit in a pocket making it much more handy. Marketing at Atari had too much say and always blew it. The Lynx was the better hand held. The masses drove vw bugs or Yugos and thoughtful people drove some seriously better engineered vehicles. Just because the premium automobiles were less in number doesn't mean the YUGO decapitated them nor did a bug. What a troll like post, lacking in thought or reality. Edited January 30, 2019 by _The Doctor__ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) and only sentiment holds people at 8 bit atari. Uh...NO. Nostalgia and sentiment is only a small piece of it for me. I want to see all the new hardware and software I can added to it. It's not just about reliving memories of my youth for me, especially since my Atari has been mostly in active use for the last 34 years, those memories never faded and newer memories with it have continued to this day. But I won't bother to explain all the other reasons that hold me at my Atari, it's clear you wouldn't understand. I don't care if other hardware like the Lynx was already an Atari 8-bit upgrade, it's has zero value to me in my want to expand and upgrade my Atari with new hardware. I own a Lynx too, it's a wonderful bit of kit, so what, I'm going to upgrade it too with a new screen and VGA output! If a new hardware add-on came out for it I'd add it too! And as a matter of fact, I am also interested in an Amiga and owned one and plan to own another eventually. Again, so what, it has absolutely nothing to do with me wanting to improve my Atari 8-bit, and again, I'll upgrade that Amiga to far beyond it's stock potential too! This is all non-sense you are spewing to me. Edited January 30, 2019 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) The more I pondered the statement "only sentiment holds people at 8-bit Atari" and how untrue that is for me, as a lone reason, I realized that sentiment for the 8-bit, or any classic computer, I own or want to own isn't just about fond memories of the computer as it comes, as what was implied. For me, it is exactly the thing that motivates me to upgrade them! Definitely not what holds me to them as the one thing. As soon as I got my first Amiga 2000, I filled every slot with upgrades. As soon as I got my Falcon, I started upgrading it. I've been upgrading my 8-bit Atari's as long as I've known how, and it's sentiment for them that makes me want too. Computers I have no sentiment for, if I keep them at all, I certainly don't spend my time and money upgrading them and wanting to improve them. The hobby of electronics and upgrading stuff is every bit a part of my enjoyment as using the equipment, not just a means to some end. Like anything for me in life it's the journey, the experience, the new horizons realized that it's all about, not the destination. Not just to play better games, which as has been given as an excuse constantly too tell you just get a more powerful computer or system. My computers and consoles already run the full spectrum of the computer and video game age and full range of power that has evolved. Upgrading for me has certainly nothing to do with trying to make it better than other machines of it's class or to keep up with the next generation, The Atari 8-bit was already the best in it's class and upgrading it to be better is solely in a vacuum and not to make it compare more favorably with other machines. Edited January 30, 2019 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 As coded on Lynx... honestly.... nice machine and well designed... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I keep my original 800 from 1983 for sentimental reasons, but use my flashazzcat modded XEGS because it’s loads of fun and I want to play Time Pilot and Heartlight and Tempest Elite. If these were just collectables they’d be up on a shelf next to Star Wars or Elvis bobbleheads collecting dust and we wouldn’t be having this discussion at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 As coded on Lynx... honestly.... nice machine and well designed... And like the 800 and Amiga, wasn't it also designed by Miner? Or at least by people that had worked with Miner previously on either or both of those machines and influenced by him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I don’t think so, although I’m sure Mical, Needle et. al consulted with him during the development of Handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 For any upgrade to gain a following - there has to be the software (games) to entice people to jump on board with it. Not that many will go for the VBXE because it's not easily fitted - and it's expensive and not easily available? And there's not that many games to convince players it's worthwhile going for? That you can run it in emulation via Altirra is a very good thing enabling players to see what it's really like. I can't see that many developers wanting to work on VBXE games because of the small number of VBXE users out there - but it does seem to be the next step forward in the 8-bit line that is already here. If someone wants to develop something similar but better than VBXE - something that plugs in easily? would work in it's favour? But new hardware of itself is never enough - you have to show it working and it's potential being used. By having some (or at least one?) killer game working. For the VBXE- While Moon Cresta is done faithfully - it's just not enough of a landmark game to turn players' heads. Something like Galaga, or Zaxxon, Xevious (or name any other big-name game that has lots of sprites and detailed landscapes present) would be nice candidates to port across. But any such project requires a great deal of time and effort (work) involved. And there's little reward for doing so - just the recognition for doing it. Rick Dangerous while looking very nice in it's VBXE version - is not much of a 'Wow!' game - in my personal view. I did get around to trying out some Lynx games many years ago - and it was a nice experience. But I simply saw it as another platform entirely and not in competition with the 8-bit Atari. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) For the VBXE- While Moon Cresta is done faithfully - it's just not enough of a landmark game to turn players' heads. Moon Cresta for VBXE was never finished, actually. Finished in-game graphics updates have not been added yet, finished music update hasn't been added, and the title screen and other planned finishing touches are yet to even be worked on. The game should be a lot more impressive as an ad for VBXE when it's completed. All that's been shown so far is a bare-bones conversion of 7800 source code with some in-game graphics changes. A lot of the sprites are still in the original 2 colors from the 7800 version. Hard to pass judgment on beta/WIP software. Edited February 1, 2019 by MrFish 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Yes - it would be nice to see Moon Cresta jazzed up a bit here and there. It does not need a major upgrade from the original - but if you wanted to - maybe add some new twists on the original? So as to keep the player interested to see what does pop up later on? Though a game that would make more impact - would be Galaga done using VBXE hardware. And probably could outdo the 7800 conversion? I do think Zaxxon, Xevious and Buck Rogers could do with better reworked versions - but that's my personal bias, with them being favourites in the arcade - so I wanted a home version that would be the best possible? I can understand why they've turned out the way they have - because of the short development time and lack of resources available, etc. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Tempest 2000 on the VBXE --- need I say more . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 I use the Atari 8-bit because of QUALITY! This is the BEST, most robust system of its day. Thankfully, enhancements and upgrades are still available. I always told people in my Users Group that migrated to the ST that it was rubbish and the 8-bits would out live the Son of Tramiel (ST). I was right. Long live Atari! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) Is the Maria tape-out available? Another alternative to the Super XE that was proposed, might be to trojan those capabilities in a system that already exists and is already pretty close to those specs. I know Curt was considering doing something more with the 7800 at one time, encorporating his XM Expansion Module with the base in one package, was it? Take a page from the Colevision forum and create a 2600/7800 compatable system with normal clocks in standard mode, but have something like the expansion module be able to unlock an accelerated mode, with double rate Maria and a faster CPU clock. 160 could becomes 320 and 320, 640, which most developers probably could wrap their heads around and create dual-mode or stand-alone games for, or many of the existing library ported and enhanced . Maybe also have a new 160 mode, whose color-depth could be enhanced quite a bit. Having it in two pieces could keep the costs down. Or whatever, I'm just stuttering, here. Edited February 2, 2019 by AtariNerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian1 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 the 8-bits would out live the Son of Tramiel (ST). I was right. Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggn Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 I use the Atari 8-bit because of QUALITY! This is the BEST, most robust system of its day. Thankfully, enhancements and upgrades are still available. I always told people in my Users Group that migrated to the ST that it was rubbish and the 8-bits would out live the Son of Tramiel (ST). I was right. BS Long live Atari! Agreed! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) I'd love to see an update of Buck Rogers: Planet of Zoom on the VBXE, with or without Rapidus. But not an arcade perfect port, but updated even better using the VBXE's 64 color high-res or 1024 color med/low resolution modes. Buck Rogers is a favorite of mine on the A8, but I'm well aware that even the original version could be updated graphically/speed even on a stock A8. So I'd even be happy with that. Another candidate for using the Space Harrier graphic "engine" for...but even a hack of the original would be nice, especially if it was made faster and not just a sprite-hack. Edited February 2, 2019 by Gunstar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 I'd love to see an update of Buck Rogers: Planet of Zoom on the VBXE, with or without Rapidus. But not an arcade perfect port, but updated even better using the VBXE's 64 color high-res or 1024 color med/low resolution modes. Buck Rogers is a favorite of mine on the A8, but I'm well aware that even the original version could be updated graphically/speed even on a stock A8. So I'd even be happy with that. Another candidate for using the Space Harrier graphic "engine" for...but even a hack of the original would be nice, especially if it was made faster and not just a sprite-hack. Well, there is a clone by Atari UK, using 256 colour background gfx and the same boring/shitty gameplay as Buck Rogers. Its named Cygnus XI or X1 (cover uses one name, game loading and title screen uses the other)... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Well, there is a clone by Atari UK, using 256 colour background gfx and the same boring/shitty gameplay as Buck Rogers. Its named Cygnus XI or X1 (cover uses one name, game loading and title screen uses the other)... I am aware of that clone, yes. The 256 color backgrounds should have been interlaced and yes, a much slower, choppier game than Buck Roger 8-bit. I still play it once in a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Another game I'd like to see on VBXE/Rapidus is a remake of the proto/beta Blaster, still doing the game "engine" the same way, but much faster, more colors and Jeff Minterized psychedelic graphic effects like Temest 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Huh? The 8 bits with Rapidus are now faster than the original ST computers. Even without the accelerator, the ST can't compete with the flexibility of the graphics and sound. Is anyone making 1088XEL or 1088XLD equivalents for the ST line? Can you buy a new ST? NO. Viva Atari8! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebe Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) https://demozoo.org/productions/195228/ 'Rapidus 20MHz + VBXE' (3x faster then '6502 Classic + VBXE') DMA !!!! is needed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_memory_access Edited February 4, 2019 by tebe 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 3x faster is still a big jump in performance, especially when dealing with 3D math. But it is good to know that 6502+VBXE alone is good performance. But yeah, It's kind of fun thinking about VBXE+Rapidus actually leap-frogging original Amiga and ST systems...with stereo Pokey as the cherry on top. I'm just looking forward to using some legacy software with the Rapidus, like an old 3D favorite of mine, I think maybe the only thing close to a real 3D C.A.D program on the 48K Atari: Super 3D Plotter II. With all kinds of features you wouldn't expect like solid, light-sourced 3D models with hidden surface elimination. But it runs at 3-6fps depending on effects used, and which of 3 graphic modes including mode 8. With Rapidus if it can run 10 times as fast, that's then 30-60fps! I think I may have to set Rapidus slower than 20Mhz or it would be too fast. Some F-15 Strike Eagle and Tomahawk should be nice too...it might even make Flight Simulator II fun and playable. Even if the increase is only something like 3x as fast as standard 6502. I hope to get it and *maybe* VBXL in 2019. Edited February 4, 2019 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 ...it might even make Flight Simulator II fun and playable. Nothing can make Flight Simulator II fun and playable... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) It always baffled me why they made that a pack-in game for the Atari XEGS. If they wanted a cheap, old title instead of a new head-liner (as should be done, but Atari rarely did) for a pack-in game, it should have at least been a classic game on XE cart like Blue Max or Karateka or even the redone Crystal Castles, an Atari original. But instead of a great video-game for their new XE game console, they pack-in a slow, technical and boring simulator that should have never been considered as a game cartridge for a console system. Even though they wouldn't have come out until a couple years after the XEGM, it should have had a pack-in of a new game not on an Atari computer before, like Commando or Xenophobe...at least something like Airball or Thunderfox, even Desert Falcon. And Crime Busters or at least Barnyard Blaster should have been the lightgun game instead of that Bug-Hunt monstrosity. Worse pack-in game line up ever, the only playable game at all was the built-in Missile Command that was a decade old. Edited February 5, 2019 by Gunstar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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